Elemental: PAX Preview Part 2

from JoeUser Forums

To say we were pleased with the reaction Elemental got at the Penny Arcade Expo would be an understatement.  Despite the game only being in alpha, users seemed to really like the direction we’re heading.

Some of the features that really got people going included:

Family Trees and Succession.  That is, one of the strategies for victory is to quietly arrange marriages so that your family is in the path of succession when sovereigns start getting killed.  In Galactic Civilizations, succession often seemed random (it wasn’t but it came across that way). So the Arceans would “surrender” to the Thalan even though you had been helping the Arceans.  In Elemental, if a sovereign surrenders (goes into exile) his kingdom might be divided up amongst heirs belonging to the various houses.

 

The planned number of players allowed in a game being 32. We only plan to have 12 “canon” factions just like in Galactic Civilizations.  But we also plan on letting people create their own (which we think will be typical).  If you’ve ever played Master of Magic or Master of Orion, you probably have an inkling of the kind of race customization we have in mind. 

 

The consequences of magic on strategy. Because of the engine, we plan on letting people alter the world a great deal. Later in the game, the arms race on magic will become increasingly apparent.

 

Modding. People at PAX were able to see the modding tools first hand. Hearing us talking about modding is one thing, seeing highly polished, functional modding tools built into the game long before the game is released lets people see just how serious we are about letting people create their own worlds and share their creations with others.

 

Now, all that said, the beta, which is due out in the next 2 weeks, is NOT going to be fun.  Let me reiterate that: IT WILL NOT BE FUN. IT WILL BE HORRIBLE. WE ARE TURNING OFF THE MAIN GRAPHICS ENGINE.

 

BELOW ARE THINGS YOU WILL NOT SEE IN BETA 1 OF ELEMENTAL:

 

Elemental_TileEditor_ZoomedHarbor
This is the built in modding tool. You take these, classify it, and then share it on the Internet within the game. Then, players can optionally have these mods inserted into their games.

Elemental_Spellcraft_Life

BETA 1 will not have the magic system in it. At least, not until November.

 

Elemental_1251919228

The graphics engine in Elemental will not be enabled until January.  Why? Because if the game is good it should be able to be fun without super good graphics.

 

138,331 views 74 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

32?

I'm either going to die really quick, or I'll be playing the first game for the next year.

 

:fox:

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Yeah, it seemed like with every presentation there were more and more people gathering around to see it. I think it also helped a lot to see how much you and Scott were excited about it. People would come up to him and ask about it and he'd just talk their heads off and you could tell he really liked doing it. It definitely helps when the developers are that enthusiastic about it :)

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

"If you’ve ever played Master of Magic or Master of Orion, you probably have an inkling of the kind of race customization we have in mind."

Iirc, neither MoM or MoO1 had race customization at all ;) ... but I know what you meant, cool :)

edit, also the last line:

". But they are of the same genre. The point is, even today, that game is pretty fun"

looks like an artifact from a previous version of the post

 

By the way, thanks very much for this info, it's looking REALLY cool, I'm very happy to hear about all this.  Just wanted to make that clear despite my nitpicks ;)

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Nice - I like the magic screen - it doesn't look like the typical "tech tree" at all.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Iirc, neither MoM or MoO1 had race customization at all ... but I know what you meant, cool
Seriously, I can't wait to get the faction customization in.  The plan ATM is to give the player X 'customization points' that can be spend on the 3 major parts of your faction: the sovereign's stats, the civilizations stats, and your magical preferences. You can imagine the HUGE range of possibilities with such a system...it's going to be nuts :)

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Boogie, I was hoping for pretty much exactly that, thanks :)

A tremendous amount of the fun in MoM was how different the game could be based on those picks, and tossing race customization and sovereign-unit buffs into that mix could really take it to a new level.  Massively strong sovereign unit with strong magic and really weak followers, or a mighty civilization with an only-slightly-above-mortal king, or anything in between... cool :)

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Count me amongst the ./drool crowd.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 5

Iirc, neither MoM or MoO1 had race customization at all ... but I know what you meant, cool Seriously, I can't wait to get the faction customization in.  The plan ATM is to give the player X 'customization points' that can be spend on the 3 major parts of your faction: the sovereign's stats, the civilizations stats, and your magical preferences. You can imagine the HUGE range of possibilities with such a system...it's going to be nuts

ohhh... [newpants]

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Is that 32 human players allowed in, or does that include the AI players?

Civ4 had a max of 18 factions at one time, and it was a pain in the butt to increase that hard coded maximum for mods. It took a few years before someone finally sorted it all out to allow more. This effectively quashed some mods that wanted to do things like faction splitting, because there was no headroom. Once you had 18 civs, you would have to abandon any game mechanics that might spawn a new faction, which would be really lame. 

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

32!!!! OMG! This is really awesome news. I can't wait to play epic games! Im also glad to hear that PAX was a success.

 

...I never understood why you guys keep talking about how the beta cloth map WONT BE FUN. Yet, you go on to say that the reason you wont include graphics in the first few beta builds is because it should be fun without them. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but seems a bit contradictory.

 

 

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Yet, you go on to say that the reason you wont include graphics in the first few beta builds is because it should be fun without them.
The cloth map allows us to implement new features quickly and easilly (read: without making the 3d assets for them). If a new feature sucks, we can remove it without having wasted time on the assets.

It's 1 step up from developing as ascii version...you get the gameplay fun, then add in the visual pizazz.  :)

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting CapnWinky, reply 10
32!!!! OMG! This is really awesome news. I can't wait to play epic games! Im also glad to hear that PAX was a success.

 

...I never understood why you guys keep talking about how the beta cloth map WONT BE FUN. Yet, you go on to say that the reason you wont include graphics in the first few beta builds is because it should be fun without them. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but seems a bit contradictory.

 

 

 

Early beta with only cloth map won't be fun.

Mid Beta still with only cloth map should become progressively more fun and refined.

 

Get it?

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

They're saying that the beta won't be fun.  There are some reasons for that that don't involve graphics, either.  Lets say that you can't make units and it crashes every other turn, and immediately if you don't navigate the minefield of unfunctional buttons.

Reply #14 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 5

Seriously, I can't wait to get the faction customization in.  The plan ATM is to give the player X 'customization points' that can be spend on the 3 major parts of your faction: the sovereign's stats, the civilizations stats, and your magical preferences. You can imagine the HUGE range of possibilities with such a system...it's going to be nuts

 

Damn, that sounds awesome.

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

If Beta 1 doesn't have the magic system, how will we be able to create fertile land or whatever other basic functions are needed to play the game? By "magic system" do you mean just the sleek interface will be cut out, or that there simply won't be magic in the game? 

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

I like strategy and decisions, graphics is just trivial eye candy for me.  Beta sounds like my kinda game.  TY

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

If Beta 1 doesn't have the magic system, how will we be able to create fertile land or whatever other basic functions are needed to play the game? By "magic system" do you mean just the sleek interface will be cut out, or that there simply won't be magic in the game?
  The 1st beta "Beta 1" will lack magic completly, but we'll be updating Beta 1 on the road to Beta 2.

You'll probably see magic around Beta 1c.

edit: There will be the 're-seeding of the world' magic, which is currently built into the city creation process.

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 5

Iirc, neither MoM or MoO1 had race customization at all ... but I know what you meant, cool Seriously, I can't wait to get the faction customization in.  The plan ATM is to give the player X 'customization points' that can be spend on the 3 major parts of your faction: the sovereign's stats, the civilizations stats, and your magical preferences. You can imagine the HUGE range of possibilities with such a system...it's going to be nuts

 

Sounds like dominions...

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sarudak, reply 18

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 5
Iirc, neither MoM or MoO1 had race customization at all ... but I know what you meant, cool Seriously, I can't wait to get the faction customization in.  The plan ATM is to give the player X 'customization points' that can be spend on the 3 major parts of your faction: the sovereign's stats, the civilizations stats, and your magical preferences. You can imagine the HUGE range of possibilities with such a system...it's going to be nuts
 

Sounds like dominions...

 

Only in two parts, civ stats isn't something you shift in Dominions unless you mean the dominion effects, but thats usually just picking the lava dudes and giving yourself more points with heat +3. Sounds good though, I hope we can change a number of things and possibly have some different city aesthetics depending on your pick.

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 11

Yet, you go on to say that the reason you wont include graphics in the first few beta builds is because it should be fun without them. The cloth map allows us to implement new features quickly and easilly (read: without making the 3d assets for them). If a new feature sucks, we can remove it without having wasted time on the assets.
It's 1 step up from developing as ascii version...you get the gameplay fun, then add in the visual pizazz. 

 

Thanks for the clarifcation, Boogie and all others who replied. Now on to trying to find this mysterious PAX trailer!

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

Now, all that said, the beta, which is due out in the next 2 weeks, is NOT going to be fun. Let me reiterate that: IT WILL NOT BE FUN. IT WILL BE HORRIBLE. WE ARE TURNING OFF THE MAIN GRAPHICS ENGINE.

Hmmm you've been saying this so often, I begin to think there might actually be a bit of fun to be found.

 

You're just in denial! ;P

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

Three things:  First I love reading the journal posts because half of the time I crack up at the writing and almost every time there's something new and cool to read.

Second: I love the way the graphics are coming together!  Everything's starting to look like it's part of the same whole rather than being pieces that just happen to be put together that way.  I think that makes sense.  Anyway, looks great so far!

Third: I can't wait for the beta.  I know a lot of people are saying this, but it doesn't make it any less true!

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

Mmmm nice. I didn't think about the whole dynasty thing affecting what happens on surrendering, cool!

I was really hoping you'd post the trailer everyone from PAX has been talking about, though :(

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting BoogieBac, reply 17

If Beta 1 doesn't have the magic system, how will we be able to create fertile land or whatever other basic functions are needed to play the game? By "magic system" do you mean just the sleek interface will be cut out, or that there simply won't be magic in the game?   The 1st beta "Beta 1" will lack magic completly, but we'll be updating Beta 1 on the road to Beta 2.
You'll probably see magic around Beta 1c.

edit: There will be the 're-seeding of the world' magic, which is currently built into the city creation process.

Sounds pretty bare bones. What exactly will we be testing for in betas 1a and 1b?

hardware compatibility and platform stability?

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

Hmmm you've been saying this so often, I begin to think there might actually be a bit of fun to be found.

As for me, I have the fun already. However I bet there will be at least one person that will complain about how poor the game is and that it has been the a waste of money, because there is no magic in the game and the game has bad graphics too....   If Stardock write it often, some of those people might read this and will shut up. Not all of them of course, but some will. :ninja: