Why not doubles?

There seems to be a general conviction within the community that doubles are not allowed. Since I see no reason why not to have doubles, I occassionally ask my host/teammates and get exactly two answers:

1. Doubles are overpowered.

2. Doubles are underpowered.

Now I might be crazy, but are either of these reason valid if the other half of the community thinks the exact opposite?

 


I've also seen people mention that focused teams are unbeatable, like Sedna+QoT is unbeatable because you "can't possibly kill anything" and Regulus+Regulus is unbeatable because you "instantly kill everything". When these two teams fight each other apparently the universe explodes.

I personally think it would be exciting to fight against double-rook as they charge up the middle on cataract.

620,768 views 228 replies
Reply #1 Top

Because anything that challenges the status quo for the random player is immediatly deemed not fun for them. There's a common trend with bad players ive found is, when they hear somthing that might even be remotely a half decent opinion that aligns with their own, they immeaditly accept it into their "psuedo rulebook" that becomes passed around very quickly. I've noticed this in many games. If you think this is bad, play 2 hours of lunia. In a game type that's called 5v5, you'll get called a cheater for helping your teamates instead of just finding one person to fight out of the 5, as well as if you're the healing class and you heal, that's cheating as well because they can't.

There's no reason why any hero combo wouldn't be allowed unless there is an obvious exploit, and no immediate combo like that exist today that i'm aware of.

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Reply #2 Top

"No doubles" is just a rule created by noobs who got killed once by 2xsnipe or similar instakillnoobs strategy.

Stacking 2 or more of the same demigod is fine(except 4 or 5 reguluses since they can win easily in maps like prison by just standing in their base and sniping enemy citadel). It's only good against noobs who don't know how to exploit the weaknesses of stacker teams.

But anyways I find stacking games very fun, no matter which side I am. 4xrook and 4xtb are my favourites.

Reply #3 Top

i agree with Miya, its a ridiculous house rule. 

 

there's only 8 DG's in the game. and each one has more than 1 good build anyway so plenty of variety is possible even with doubles. 

 

y'all gotta get over it and just let people play what they want. one of my best games ever was 4 Oaks vs. 4 Regulus. 

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Reply #4 Top

The only set of doubles I sometimes won't allow (mostly if it's an all expert game) is double regulus's. And the only reason for that is MINES. 6 mines is annoying enough but 12 all set together is overkill.

Doubles really aren't overpowered it just doubles up on abilities that are usefull on maps. Although I do hate that people say you can exploit the same weakness on each player because they chose the same demigod. Well truthfully you can't weaknesses normally result as a part of the players style.

Yeah 5 regulus's is just mean. 3 x6 mines 18 mines x400 damage = insta kill. 5xsnipe can hit 5k damage and plus them hitting mabye even 6 mines they are dead.

I've actually done a double rook... unfortunatly my ally did a hammer build (noob tactic because he died only 10 or so times). But i've seen it done successfully. It is almost bordering invincible til we got giants.

Reply #5 Top

Quoting XaviorsFist, reply 4
The only set of doubles I sometimes won't allow (mostly if it's an all expert game) is double regulus's. And the only reason for that is MINES. 6 mines is annoying enough but 12 all set together is overkill.

Doubles really aren't overpowered it just doubles up on abilities that are usefull on maps. Although I do hate that people say you can exploit the same weakness on each player because they chose the same demigod. Well truthfully you can't weaknesses normally result as a part of the players style.

Yeah 5 regulus's is just mean. 3 x6 mines 18 mines x400 damage = insta kill. 5xsnipe can hit 5k damage and plus them hitting mabye even 6 mines they are dead.

I've actually done a double rook... unfortunatly my ally did a hammer build (noob tactic because he died only 10 or so times). But i've seen it done successfully. It is almost bordering invincible til we got giants.

And all of that is worthless against one oak shield.

Reply #6 Top

Oh yeah because you have your shield on just when you walk into an INVISIBLE minefield.

Reply #7 Top

Not sure where this mentality came from.  I don't see any issue with any doubles.

Oh yeah because you have your shield on just when you walk into an INVISIBLE minefield.

There are things that reveal invisible objects....

Reply #8 Top

Quoting lifekatana, reply 6
Oh yeah because you have your shield on just when you walk into an INVISIBLE minefield.

Oh right, because you're not going to be aware of where FIVE REGULUS ARE HANGING AROUND TOSSING MINES.

Reply #9 Top

nothing is wrong with double - i have a thousand big posts with it - if people complain they don't understand basic logic - when they hate doubles they tend to complain about two spits or something - they blame the move when it tends to actually be the team work

Reply #10 Top

doubles are just fine

Reply #12 Top

Try triple vamps, all going minions, on pantheon prison. On a dominate game. With a noob rook, and a very  very pissed off sedna.



Sure i had 40 minions chasing my oak at one time.

 

Was interesting at least.

Reply #13 Top

Certain doubles are very overpowered, and some are really underpowered and ruin a team.

Reply #15 Top

Whenever someone says "Demigod X is OP because he can beat Demigod Y 1vs1" the community replies that the game balance isn't centered around 1vs1 so this is fine.

So why is it that people in this thread say doubles are fine?  If Demigod X is OP against demigod Y, why wouldn't Demigod combo XX be overpowered against demigod combo YY?

Reply #16 Top

Quoting Sly_Squash, reply 15
Whenever someone says "Demigod X is OP because he can beat Demigod Y 1vs1" the community replies that the game balance isn't centered around 1vs1 so this is fine.

So why is it that people in this thread say doubles are fine?  If Demigod X is OP against demigod Y, why wouldn't Demigod combo XX be overpowered against demigod combo YY?

Because it's your choice to play an obviously bad matchup. You can play 6 different heros and not get aoe vs minion builds, does that make minions OP? No, it makes the other player stupid. It's your teams choice to take the rock paper scissors out and only play rock vs paper.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting WickedBear, reply 16

Because it's your choice to play an obviously bad matchup. You can play 6 different heros and not get aoe vs minion builds, does that make minions OP? No, it makes the other player stupid. It's your teams choice to take the rock paper scissors out and only play rock vs paper.

Sure and at the start of every game, we just do the demigod dance.. Our team picks a demigod, your team changes its own to match that, then ours changes to match your change.. and so on.

You realize i hope, how stupidly futile your argument is. In an ideal world, you would have no idea what the enemy will bring in terms of demigods and as such.. you would have to adjust your own selection to cover the boradest spectrum possible in terms of skills.

Now if you can do that, while picking the same demigod twice.. then the game is obviously not well balanced. If you can't, then telling someone not to pick the same demigod his teammate has choosen is actually helping him improve his game.

Reply #18 Top

Sure and at the start of every game, we just do the demigod dance.. Our team picks a demigod, your team changes its own to match that, then ours changes to match your change.. and so on.

You realize i hope, how stupidly futile your argument is. In an ideal world, you would have no idea what the enemy will bring in terms of demigods and as such.. you would have to adjust your own selection to cover the boradest spectrum possible in terms of skills.

Now if you can do that, while picking the same demigod twice.. then the game is obviously not well balanced. If you can't, then telling someone not to pick the same demigod his teammate has choosen is actually helping him improve his game.

Do you realize how bad you are at countering somone's arguement? You can't use the justification that because one matchup is bad agaisnt a certain setup, that theres always a direct counter. There is only extremes that this would happen in, and the "perptual demigod dance" you seem to believe has never, and never will happen because of this. That my friend- is a stupidly futile point that is irrelevant.

You realize i hope, how stupidly futile your argument is. In an ideal world, you would have no idea what the enemy will bring in terms of demigods and as such.. you would have to adjust your own selection to cover the boradest spectrum possible in terms of skills.

This is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, but yes it is my opinion you should not know what the other teams setup is till the game starts as the heros are mostly linear not able to change complete styles of play. DOTA took this model, and it worked well.

Now if you can do that, while picking the same demigod twice.. then the game is obviously not well balanced. If you can't, then telling someone not to pick the same demigod his teammate has choosen is actually helping him improve his game.

Wow, you are REALLY bad at making points that are irrelevant, have I told you that before? Theres no "reason" why two of the same hero cannot be an effective team in a broad spectrum, it has nothing to do with balance. If two of the same hero can be just as effective as two different heros in a situation, it in no way implies that if you took that hero, and another hero that it would come out as OP. Way to fail connecting the dots there.

Even if choosing two demi's is hit or miss, theres reason why you should be restricted to strategies that aren't. Very often games are fundamentally this way, ever heard of rushing in an RTS? It's the players CHOICE to be unique, take risks, or to play it safe. Often playing against the expected is the best way to put your opponent in a situation he doesn't know how to deal with.

Reply #19 Top

I enjoy playing w/ and against duplicates.  It changes things up and causes you to adjust your strategy.  I find it fun.  Surely some combos are great and others not so much.  It should be the host's call whether or not to allow them. 

Reply #20 Top

Double Regulus is the epitome of homosexuality, especially if they both take mines. Double beast, tower Rook, or Sedna/Qot are lame as hell also.

Wouldn't mind facing double Oak, TB, or Erebus that much, but nevertheless,

no doubles.

Reply #21 Top

Double snipe - can amount to 2000+ damage, coming from somewhere you can't see

Double rooks - 16 towers total, with which you can hold back anything thrown at you

Double sednas - Two healers, which means no one dies, ever

Double QoT - see above

Double oak - not a big deal

Double erebus - double bite can be annoying but again, not a big deal

Double UB - not too big a deal, but double spit can still be annoying (one after the other, as they dont stack)

Double TB - not a big deal

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The problem is not an underpowered/overpowered issue. Rather, going against doubles is often times not fun at all. It's already annoying to deal with one tower rook. Two tower rooks... yeah, I'm not going to spend my entire time trying to push into 16 towers, no thanks. Or with double regulus, worry about keeping my health above 2k at all times.

 

Reply #22 Top

You're not thinking about counters.  2 tower rooks have garbage mobility - go around them and harrass the base.  They'll be so busy going back and forth you'll be able to mitigate their "we built a fortress of towers" advantage.

2 Reguli with "2k total damage snipe" is at like level 10.  You should be more than well enough equipped to deal with that.

Reply #23 Top

Kryo said in another post that spit stacks actually. Not only two different spits, but your own spit as well due to the 7sec CD (due to flags or items) and 10sec duration...

Reply #24 Top

You can't do much against 2 good (I underline good) Rook players that stack 16 towers :) If they do it on both lanes or at their interesection, then your creeps wont get out and u cant really attack their base on your own ;) Sure, giants and massive aoe can solve it, but at that time their team already has the advatange (if you survived that long anyway).

Reply #25 Top

"XX counters YY" - no one's forcing you to use YY. 

"Doubles aren't fun" - tough cookies. 

"Doubles are overpowered" - no they're not.