Yeah, I always wondered why some guides on here argued against HoL. You were insane if u didn't buy it (or lost a lot).

Had to be nerfed but not worth getting now.

Cheaper items do a much better job.

Makes the game better but not really sure what the point of keeping it ingame since it will never be bought.

I agree that the heart of life was too cheap for what it did, but 12k for some increased effects but doubled CD is just ridiculous.  I feel like I'm the only one who thinks an affordable HoL actually adds strategy rather than removing it, since now, it's basically just an HP stacking game.  Maybe throw in a smidge of mana here and there for every DG that actually relied on HoL.  Also, I wouldn't say EVERYONE needed it.  Sedna, QoT, tower Rooks, and Erebus did fine without it even at its 4k pricetag.

The HoL allowed for hit and run builds to actually work.  Now most builds are going to be relatively indistinguishable since you basically CAN'T have significanlty less hp than your opponent with no heart of life to make up for it.  Not only will item buying be uniform within builds for the same demigod, but it will probably be rather uniform across the board, making tb and regulus stack hp now as well.

If you want to increase strategy, all +hp items need a slight nerf, as they are MUCH better than damage for the money spent.

The item was made way, WAY more situational. On large maps you may very well find yourself buying this item still. On the smaller ones there are now other considerations.

Good games are all about interesting choices. The HoL was a tad powerful. I bought the game yesterday and only got to play around with it a bit, and wow... That item was godlike. Right now the item has you thinking twice before buying it. The choice now is to safe or buy something else. It is interesting enough for me.

the only problem with items would be when they are som much nerfed that no one would ever buy them. Right now I think it is too soon to say that you do not want to buy this item, ever. For most cookie cutter strategies that would be a fairly accurate statement, but I am sure that when the time is right, the HoL may still be the best item your money could get you. Some one with a little more fantasy than I have may think of some situation where that would happen.

All I am saying is that you need to look at the whole game and accept that items have a niche. The situations where you want this item have been greatly reduced, making you look at other options. I applaud any such change since I despise cookie cutter strategies.

cheaper to get artifact-grade potions? Heck, cheaper and you dont lose the affect if you get hit.

I´m glad the item is now much more expensive since it was a pain for anyone playing against a melee demigod who got some lucky kills early on and then bought the HoL, making him unstoppable on the field without pause.

Instead they maybe should have split the item into two new ones:

Heart of Life (as the name intended): just heal "life" back in a certain amount, maybe the way it was for 5000 gold

Heart of Mana: just restoring mana (more interesting for the mana intensive demigod players), cost a bit cheaper, around 3500 gold !

*cough* Don't you see all the models in fashion magazines with waists you could fit one hand around?

I like the idea of two seperate items, however it would still create the same problem if they were readily available. The HoL shouldn't be available so easily or so early as it was - it really changes the game once you've got one and it has numerous side effects.

I think the current situation reflects it's importance; it's costly and takes a while to get and you can't use it as frequently. Whether or not it's too expensive right now isn't something we can argue untill we've played more and see how it's changed up the make up of the game being that every play doesn't, or can't, buy one. Having to chose between this and Damage dealing Artifacts when you have enough money adds strategy to it's use - you can have HoL, however you won't be able to get Mage Slayer, for example, for a quite a while longer if you do. Which would you chose?

This shows how stupid you all are there is a item called magnus rod cost is 3250 gives you 50% regen passive and half off mana every 15 seconds for 5 seconds.  Maybe you guys should learn more about other items.

There is a difference between magnus rod and the proposed item. One increases mps by 50% and reduces skill cost by 50% for 5 seconds. The other actually restores mana.

Magnus rod benefits those who stack mps and skill spam, such as TB. "Heart of Mana" would benefit DG like UB, who usually only use 1 or 2 mana costing skills and don't skill spam or stack mps as much and rely on AA for the majority of their damage.

So yeah, the only one who looks stupid right now is you for being an ass and wrong at the same time.

Radish that serves a different purpose, the rod is used in a different way to the HoL. For example the rod isn't as effective if you want to spit harass, since you won't be able to use the half off mana every time you spit. The rod would probably be better than using the HoL in terms of efficiency if you were playing ice TB and doing a full shatter combo, but that doesn't mean every character would be able to use it well.

You also fail to address the heart of life as just a +health item. It's a legitimate idea since Wings of the Seraphim just haven't cut it when I've used them.

But we're all stupid aren't we? All bow down to HorseRadish. His opinion is gospel.

I have np with anbything except the cost. its just so hard to save 12k after needing to buy a helm,chest,feet,and hands. i mean i get 2 chests 2 boots and a helm. by then i am close to 10. my games last tipically end at 10 or so.i usually get like 25 to 30 gold total a game hmm after cital upgrades those items i get plus i usually get wand of speed no way i get mage slayer typically yet have 12k to get hol as is now.

There's no need to compose a "valid argument", which if I read your mind correctly means a long winded post going into details, when the thing is very simple. This is an item, nothing complex like a demigod. The problem with it is staring you in the eye. So saying it's fucking useless now is good enough of an argument, and your arguments against that haven't convinced me.

Simple: is too expensive to make it useful. I prefer saving another 3k and get better artefacts. It should cost 8k.

Perhaps 20 players would be too small in DG's case, but the top level of play, however large a bracket that happens to be, must be the primary/exclusive factor when considering balance (in any game, not just DG). Strategies must be evaluated based on their own reasonable-maximum potential, disregarding any deviations in effectiveness that might occur because of unreasonably flawed players or opponents. In this way the highest level of competition thrives and develops a rich metagame. Any apparent imbalances that appear exclusively in lower level play can be dismissed as resultant from the shortcomings of weaker players. 

Point in case, HorseCum sucks,

HoL imbalanced shit, im glad they changed it, they shouldnt have made it another useless item though...

Saying it's "fucking useless now" doesn't make it so, regardless of how much you'd like it be. The fact that you can't even grasp that concept demonstrates why you can't understand why HoL was changed, and why the change is for the best. I gave a brief explination of why it is so. You've given nothing excet more evidence of why sterilisation should be more readily available to women. Good day, sir.

Everything should do 1 dmg. Game fixed.

Well aren't you a little troll. I'll respond anyway. You seem to have the wrong idea here. Reading your post implies that you think I'm against changing HoL. You are wrong. The item was OP before, it needed a nerf. The problem is it was nerfed too much, and thus it's now useless. The fact that you didn't understand that, makes you a retarded troll. Good day to you too.

I tried this thing out a bit since it used to be such an important item for me, and suffice it to say I wasn't impressed.  As was mentioned the mana gained is actually provided as mana per second, so if you ever had a decent % mana increasing item the old version gave you 100% mana back anyway, making the increased mana useful only if you're interrupted.

As for the health, it's nice but I'll just stick to potions now, and I'll almost definitely buy a cloak of elfenkind of save up for the bulwark before choosing to buy this item.

That being said there's some strats that'll make good use of it, probably mostly on maps with multiple cooldown flags by characters with the staff of renewal or magnificent presence.  It's not useless, but it's clearly nowhere near what it used to be.

The game needs more items in the 4k - 8k bracket that are worth buying. I thought HoL should have been moved to the 8k section along with Mageslayer myself, it was one of the few expensive items really worth saving for, now it's just another bit of white noise at the artifact shop: things that ARENT MageSlayer or Ashkandor.

Anyone else think the entire artifact shop needs reworking? I'd like about 50% of the items to cost between 8 - 12K, and for some more serious defensive items that are on par with the bonuses given by MageSlayer (you can hp regen more by hitting people and life stealing than by buying hp regen items...wtf is with that). By the time I get 18K the game is over, what's the point of having half a shop of stuff that is rarely used?

Note: My games tend to end around the 30 minute mark, maybe other people are playing longer ones and actually use artifacts, but it's not my experience.

The Item Shop AND Artifact Shop needs reworking. Once I have all my lower ~1500gold gear, if I have ~4k, I don't know what to really spend it on, other than cit upgrades.

The artefact shop is fine, imo. Is the normal item shop that needs a major reworking.

I understoond well and clear, and as I said you don't understand that the change that was made - cost, cooldown and all - was for the best. It wasn't over-nerfed in any stretch of the imagination. If the item was intended to be available to every player on the field, devolving the combat in focus fire matches of who can stack the most teams on a single enemy Demigod to prevent them from using their Heart of Life, then the change wouldn't have been so extreme. However, it's fairly obvious the items intention was to be a situational item - useful for front line Demigods with support - however not so readily available that it's abuse leads to it's owner performing 15 second hit and runs, with the round trip time enough to trigger the HoL to ensure that it's an endless cycle.

It's far from useless - it still did what it did before. If you have one, you'll still use it. The difference now is that it's something you need to progress towards in a match as apart of your strategy, not something a player with a few early kills gets a hold of 4 minutes into the game and then dominates the match because they don't have to retreat from the field until they rush-upgrade to Giants. It's no longer the central part of your entire gameplay strategy, where you must have one to compete.

You seem to not be able to grasp this concept. The HoL does a lot more than just remove the need to return to the Health Crystal. It removes your dependancy on potions, a side effect of which is being on the field longer and thus acquring more Gold and more XP than players without it. If you're also able to retreat, pop HoL, and come back in swinging - it's essentially a second life against stronger opponents, or multiple opponents. It changes the dynamic of the game entirely for it's owner, and now it's cost reflects the significance of the change. People who don't buy it now are the people who never had a strategic use for it to begin with - they just spammed it's use where possible to dominate the opposition as soon as possible.