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Democrats: Christians should not get to vote

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Draginol
InfoGeek
Join Date 11/2003
+1
Reply #26 November 17, 2004 1:53:25 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
No, more like these:

Link

and

Link

IG
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Draginol
RagnarokMPH
Join Date 11/2004
0
Reply #27 November 17, 2004 2:58:57 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
AAAHAHAHAhahahaha...good stuff.
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Draginol
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #28 November 17, 2004 4:30:26 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'll be honest. I didn't realize it was a joke. Now that I know it is, and if it's a joke to describe how ridiculous such an idea is (and don't pretend that Democrats out there don't think Christians shouldn't get to vote, look at any topic here about how Christians were so wrong to vote because their votes were influenced by their beliefs yet can't argue why it's all right for others to vote for Kerry even though their vote is also influenced by their beliefs), then I must apologize to the man, because I assumed less of him.

id just rather not know the political leanings of my favorite entertainers, regardless of their party.


I know exactly what you mean. Garbage is my favorite band, but after reading two snippets of Shirley Manson's journal, I learned that it's best I know less about the celebrities I adore.
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Draginol
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #29 November 17, 2004 4:51:37 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

I'll be honest. I didn't realize it was a joke. Now that I know it is, and if it's a joke to describe how ridiculous such an idea is (and don't pretend that Democrats out there don't think Christians shouldn't get to vote


You should have heard Jeanine Garafolo yesterday.  She basically said the same thing, and was serious!  And could not beleive that people got mad at her for saying it!


Can you say clueless?  I knew you could!

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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #30 November 17, 2004 6:34:12 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Democrats: Christians should not get to vote

By: Draginol
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 on Opinionated Techie
Message Board: Politics
Here's an interesting view point from a well known Democrat: Born again Christians shouldn't get to vote:
Following University President Don Randel’s warm introduction, the famed author, host, and wry wit of A Prairie Home Companion, started by commenting on election results.
“I am a Democrat—it’s no secret. I am a museum-quality Democrat,” Keillor said. “Last night I spent my time crouched in a fetal position, rolling around and moaning in the dark.”
Not one to shy away from speaking his mind, Keillor proposed a solution to what he deemed a fundamental problem with U.S. elections. “I’m trying to organize support for a constitutional amendment to deny voting rights to born-again Christians,” Keillor smirked. “I feel if your citizenship is in Heaven—like a born again Christian’s is—you should give up your citizenship. Sorry, but this is my new cause. If born again Christians are allowed to vote in this country, then why not Canadians?”


Liberals shouldn't be allowed to vote either.
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Draginol
jeblackstar
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #31 November 17, 2004 7:32:32 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

In fact, no one should be allowed to vote, we ought to go back to the old Monarchical system.


Cheers

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Draginol
Don Bemont
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #32 November 17, 2004 7:46:37 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Just to check -- does non-PC humor usually bother you?

If it does, you have every right to object to this. If not, what's the problem?
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Draginol
Draginol
Join Date 03/2001
+137 moderator
Reply #33 November 17, 2004 8:41:12 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

I don't mind non-PC humor.  I do have a problem with hypocricy.

The same left wingers who bitch and moan if we don't have honey seeping from our pores about Islam ("the religion of peace") have no problem saying the nastiest things about Christians.

It's part of an overall pattern. Some poor aid worker gets murdered by these monsters in Iraq but oh no, a Marine double taps a terrorist -- fighting from a mosque -- while playing dead and we get 3 days of front page news coverage.

What we're sick of is the double standards.  If Jerry Falwell had made a comment suggesting that jews shouldn't get to vote, even in jest, you can bet they'd be calling for his head.

Trent Lott, a republican, lost his leadership role because he made a joke saying we'd be better off today if Strom Thurmond hda been President. 

I guess it's a "values" issue, I guess Democrats can't understand that.

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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
+42
Reply #34 November 17, 2004 11:16:37 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

ooo, 3.5 million. that's a little more than 1/100th of the US population, and a teeny minority of the 150+ million Americans that consider themselves Christians
 

population? % of voters is what's important.  it appears (averaging the number of voters dominionists claim to represent as well as their detractors' estimates, adding the two averages and dividing by 2) they can mobilize between 10-20 million votes...or like between 11-20% of the voters in the last election.  the percentage of republican voters is considerably higher.  interestingly enuff, thats about the same percentage that claimed to have been motivated by 'moral values' isnt it? 

Kingbee seems to be scared of Christians
 

if youre going to characterize my emotional state or my position on anything based on my statements, please have the good grace to base your analysis on what ive said...not what you wish i'd said.  it's not christians im concerned about (scared?? hahahahahah you do get wound up huh?) it's only those christains who wish to remake the country into a christian theocracy.

 

In addition, another point that Kingbee REFUSES to admit, is that activism, political participation, and voting ISN'T A CRIME. Organizations like NoW and the ACLU are making political war on EVERY law or policy they disagree with. Christians, of whatever bias, aren't allowed to do the same?

there's a large gulf separating those who advocate making/amending/discarding laws and replacing our civil state with a religious one. 

so people need to shut the hell up and oppose them in the same spirit THEY are being opposed, through political activism and with their votes.

shutting up would be tantamount to NOT opposing them at all.  thanks for the advice but since youre not likely to follow it yourself (nor would i expect it of you), i'll pass.

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Draginol
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #35 November 18, 2004 1:32:21 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

population? % of voters is what's important.  it appears (averaging the number of voters dominionists claim to represent as well as their detractors' estimates, adding the two averages and dividing by 2) they can mobilize between 10-20 million votes...or like between 11-20% of the voters in the last election.  the percentage of republican voters is considerably higher.  interestingly enuff, thats about the same percentage that claimed to have been motivated by 'moral values' isnt it?

According to the exit polls, about 30% of the country supported gay marriage, which means that 30% of the country must be huge homosexuals who want to turn the nation gay, since not one of them could possibly be mild-mannered, just like with the people who chose moral values as the top issue.

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Draginol
messybuu
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Reply #36 November 18, 2004 1:38:51 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

there's a large gulf separating those who advocate making/amending/discarding laws and replacing our civil state with a religious one.


Maybe it's just me, but there seem to be many people (at least enough to warrant acnkowledging) that would love to change the nation into either an anarchist state, a socialist state, a communist state, etc. In fact, one might say that unions want to turn the nation into a communist state. Think about how much power they want to give to the worker (let's say so much that they'd happily cripple the corporations for which they work as well as the nation as a strike as seen in the mid '90s if my economic professor's history is correct) and how they try to influence the votes of union workers (as well as give contributions to candidates). When you think about it, the same people claiming Christians are trying to take over the nation into a theocracy should also be complaining that unions are trying to turn the nation into a communist state.

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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #37 November 18, 2004 2:10:16 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

one might say that unions want to turn the nation into a communist state. Think about how much power they want to give to the worker (let's say so much that they'd happily cripple the corporations for which they work as well as the nation as a strike as seen in the mid '90s if my economic professor's history is correct) and how they try to influence the votes of union workers (as well as give contributions to candidates).


unions provide a valid basis for comparison but only to the extent that there 'was' a strong union voting bloc that was catered to and manipulated by the democrats until the late 60s.  the first sign of its impending demise was nixon's 1968 victory. in the early 70s, america's industrial base imploded; factories shut down for good and without union jobs you dont have union workers.  theres only one 'real' union left to the best of my knowledge but it's likely on its way out too.  from the 50s on, there's no historic basis for assuming the unions had any interest in overthrowing the government or even changing the system.  they--like todays longshoremen--were doin too well for themselves. 


as far as the socialists, anarchists, etc., go, theyd have difficulty filling a sports stadium much less a substantial number of seats in the house and senate. 

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Draginol
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #38 November 18, 2004 7:19:38 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

as far as the socialists, anarchists, etc., go, theyd have difficulty filling a sports stadium much less a substantial number of seats in the house and senate. 




So only if you are a large voting block with common interest are you to be banned?  As far as I see, none of the 'religious right' has advocated turning the US into a theocracy.  They are voting to impose their morals, as is every other person, including the group above.  Yet you would deny them their right for the simple reason you do not agree with them?  You truly are a hypocrit.  Or a communist.  You choose.  No one can vote or legislate unless they agree with you.


 


Pathetic.

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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #39 November 18, 2004 8:45:07 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

So only if you are a large voting block with common interest are you to be banned?


have i advocated banning anything or anybody?  please go back and read #18. 



As far as I see, none of the 'religious right' has advocated turning the US into a theocracy


Jesus Christ is, therefore, the Ruler of Nations, and should be explicitly confessed as such in any constitutional documents. The civil ruler is to be a servant of God, he derives his authority from God and he is duty-bound to govern according to the expressed will of God.


The civil government of our nation, its laws, institutions, and practices must therefore be conformed to the principles of Biblical law as revealed in the Old and New Testamentst--mission statement of the national reform movement as expressed in it's publication, 'the christian statesman'



You truly are a hypocrit. Or a communist. You choose. No one can vote or legislate unless they agree with you


im neither as far as i can see. im intent on preserving our secular consitution and our civil government is elected not annointed--something the dominionists and their supporters clearly oppose.  

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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #40 November 18, 2004 8:56:30 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Socialism is the second largest party in the USA today, they just call themselves liberal democrats, and the celebrity worshipping sheep that follow them know no better


do i really need to point out the largest party likes to refer to itself as conservative but...set new records for deficit spending, advocates amending the constitution to abridge state's rights as well as the privacy of citizens when it suits the party's ideologues, has recklessly enaged in international regime change and ummm noooo im not gonna say anything about anyone being a sheep following anyone cuz thats elitist, condescending and guaranteed to ensure you lose elections n shit. 


you've a very strange perception of socialism.  liberal democrats in this country = rightwingers in almost any first world nation except this one.


 

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Draginol
whoman69
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #41 November 18, 2004 8:56:43 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Difficulty filling a sports stadium, hmm? The Socialist Presidential candidate this year, John Kerry, took 49% of the vote. Thats a LOT of sports stadiums.

Socialism is the second largest party in the USA today, they just call themselves liberal democrats, and the celebrity worshipping sheep that follow them know no better.


Democrats are no more socialists than anything nasty you want to call the right. Stop using labels to hate someone or to push them aside. Unions are for communism because they want more benefits. Think about the 80 hour workweeks you'd be working with no weekends that you would have without what unions have done before, and with great loss of life due to strikebreakers no better than mafia goons. Democrats think that government is there to help people. You think that Republicans with their huge budgets aren't trying to use that to help the economy and keep theirselves in power? Socialists believe that the government should control everything. Communists are socialists who use government sponsored terror to uphold socialism. That is a hell of a long way from what Democrats think just as not being in favor of public prayer in schools is tantamount to them wanting to ban the bible. Get away from the propoganda and put forth an intelligent argument.
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Draginol
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #42 November 18, 2004 12:20:28 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Jesus Christ is, therefore, the Ruler of Nations, and should be explicitly confessed as such in any constitutional documents. The civil ruler is to be a servant of God, he derives his authority from God and he is duty-bound to govern according to the expressed will of God. <BR><BR><BR>The civil government of our nation, its laws, institutions, and practices must therefore be conformed to the principles of Biblical law as revealed in the Old and New Testamentst--mission statement of the national reform movement as expressed in it's publication, 'the christian statesman'


So one group wants to turn the nation into a theocracy. I'm sure at least one other group in the entire nation wants to turn the U.S. into whatever it desires (i.e. socialist state, communist state, anarchist state, etc.).


So, it's the size that matters? How many people in the nation belong to this group? (Sure there might be a higher percentage of them voting than they are in the populace, but that's the populace's fault for not rocking the vote as they said they would. It's not their problem that they actually bother to vote and nobody else does.)

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Draginol
messybuu
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Reply #43 November 18, 2004 12:23:48 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Hmm.. Checking up on the exit polls Draginol posted, it appears that about 14% of all voters are union members, and that 2/3 of them voted for Kerry, which means that 9% of all voters are trying to turn the nation into a communist state (since voting for moral values = theocracy (let's ignore that religious faith is also an option)).
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Draginol
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #44 November 18, 2004 1:35:36 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Hmm.. Checking up on the exit polls Draginol posted, it appears that about 14% of all voters are union members, and that 2/3 of them voted for Kerry, which means that 9% of all voters are trying to turn the nation into a communist state (since voting for moral values = theocracy (let's ignore that religious faith is also an option)).


A very Salient point.  I dont see anyone trying to deny them their voice, even tho a majority dont agree with them.

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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #45 November 18, 2004 9:30:22 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

which means that 9% of all voters are trying to turn the nation into a communist state

A very Salient point. I dont see anyone trying to deny them their voice, even tho a majority dont agree with them

lemme see some contemporary documentation of any bonafide union with a charter that calls for replacing our constitution with the communist manifesto.  while youre looking, check out the 2004 texas republican party platform...specifically the plank that calls for pretty much the same thing as the nrm's statement. otherwise mb's fantasyworld union=communism analogy is not merely unsalient...it's just plain old pointless

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Draginol
messybuu
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Reply #46 November 18, 2004 9:36:09 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
lemme see some contemporary documentation of any bonafide union with a charter that calls for replacing our constitution with the communist manifesto.  while youre looking, check out the 2004 texas republican party platform...specifically the plank that calls for pretty much the same thing as the nrm's statement. otherwise mb's fantasyworld union=communism analogy is not merely unsalient...it's just plain old pointless


That doesn't change the fact that they want to change laws and add laws that are going to be communist in nature (i.e. to make the workers more powerful). Do you honestly think that the nation's going to be changed into a theocracy or a communist state with one action? No, it's going to be a gradual process if it happens. Is what you're saying is that it's all right for groups to turn some parts socialist or theocratic, as long as it's not the entire thing?
Also, if at least one union leader desires the nation to be a socialist or communist state, then that must mean they all do, just like how since some religious organizations want to turn the nation into a theocracy, that means those ~31% who voted for Bush on religious faith or moral values want to turn the nation into a theocracy and are all part of one of those theocratic organizations.
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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #47 November 18, 2004 9:51:41 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

communist in nature (i.e. to make the workers more powerful


hahahahahahah 


Do you honestly think that the nation's going to be changed into a theocracy or a communist state with one action?


the dominonists have been working on it for about 25 years.  this was a good year for them.  that's why theyre suddenly so vocal about the bush administration delivering for them in the next 4 years.   check out jerry falwell's website.

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Draginol
messybuu
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #48 November 18, 2004 10:27:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
the dominonists have been working on it for about 25 years.  this was a good year for them.  that's why theyre suddenly so vocal about the bush administration delivering for them in the next 4 years.   check out jerry falwell's website.


So, because they take credit for Bush's win, that means that they actually were responsible for Bush's win and that his win means they'll win?

I also ask again: Is what you're saying is that it's all right for groups to turn some parts socialist or theocratic, as long as it's not the entire thing? If not, then unions are as much of a threat as Jerry Falwell.
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Draginol
kingbee
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #49 November 18, 2004 11:01:40 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

So, because they take credit for Bush's win, that means that they actually were responsible for Bush's win and that his win means they'll win?


they seem to think so. 


I also ask again: Is what you're saying is that it's all right for groups to turn some parts socialist or theocratic, as long as it's not the entire thing?


rather than indulge your word games, let me reiterate my response (see reply #18) to keillor's statement: any group determined to replace our constitution (which does not contain the words 'god', 'jesus', 'bible') with a dominion based on biblical law with rulers who act according to divine revelation rather than by consent of the citizens--especially if it involves the collusion or assistance of those sworn to uphold the constitution since they would be violating that oath--risks having its members' citizenships involuntarily relinquished should patriot act ll be voted into law.

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Draginol
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #50 November 19, 2004 5:36:58 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Kingbee can laugh it off, but calling union goals communism is about as rational as calling Christian political aims theocracy, as the paranoid here do, over, and over, and over...

The comments on my blog about religion in government recently were frightening. Those opposing religious participation n government sounded *exactly* like McCarthyists, snooping out all those covert commies. No, scoffers here have NO right to laugh off anyone else banging the communism drum when they themselves are spouting paranoid, intellectual equivalencies...



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