Any good and very popular mp game will spawn jerks. Quake has them, Counter Strike has them, Halo has them, Star Craft has them, etc. They are called hardcore fanboys and it's inevitable in a popular mp game. Making game design choices just to keep away this kind of people is mind-boggling to me...

 

 

Nor was i accusing you of such; I was merely making a general comment about online games, and the sad state of hardcore fans who can never be pleased (but for are yet appreciated)

 

Yey!

 

Usually I seem to have very diffrent ideas on what would make the game more fun then the devs, but that's spot on. Having branching skill trees or some sort of other choices you have to make for your char would really be a LOT better then just adding a new char every time you get an idea that sounds fun. I also think that the DG:s should be more varied "out of the box", but that's more debatable. For example I'd love having the doggie be faster, but less durable and having more burst damage for it to really be diffrent from playing a TB for example. Now I seem to be playing them both relatively the same - using ranged attacks to soften and going in for the kill when an opportunity rises. Yeah one does AoE and the other is way better in melee, but they still feel too much the same.

 

I'm really not against adding more DGs, but you should be carefull with adding them like you said you would be and instead refine the ones already in and add some options for them.

 

You SHOULD really add more maps FAST tho - Now granted the cataract and the prison are getting a bit too much play atm because of the connection issues so they will be a bit better when you get them sorted out and there will be more bigger games, but playing the same map over and over and over again starts to feel stale very fast. I also agree (with another poster - too lazy to go get the name) that the maps are a bit too similar and without too many tactical opportunities. The same map will play relatively the same every time. Adding more maps like these would lessen the problem, but you really need to figure out ways to make games play diffrently. Then again perhaps the bigger maps are more varied and I havent just seen them because of the connection issues..

 

And now since I started telling you how to do your job...: These are demigods so the effects can be impressive and varied. You have no reason to limit cc selection to boring stuns. Everyone hates not being in control of their character and just having to watch as it dies. Much better would be for the TB to restrict enemies using icewalls (cant walk trought, gotta do damage to it to remove) or firewalls (just do a lot of damage if you walk trough it. The Rook could just hit you hard enough to knock you back a good distance. Anything that limits the choices the opponent can make or gives a penalty for choosing a certain course of action is a LOT better then having an ability take choice away from the target. In that way Regulus has the best controlling ability in the game - the mark. You CAN use your abilities if you are marked. You just have to think if you need to use the ability more then you need the hp's it takes away if you use it.

If the abilities can be truly expanded so that they play much differently, then I completely agree with this.

 

Basically, I just want less momentum in this game.  Having to choose abilities on the fly that are fit for the situation can help reduce the impact of momentum.  Reducing the amount of gold per demigod kill and increasing the amount of gold per creep kill can also help reduce the impact of momentum (since you can try to creep and not engage against other demigods if you're lagging behind)

i have been a fanboy but i moved on

Clearly those who want buttloads of heroes haven't really ever played captains mode in dota or followed leagues at all.  Within a given patch, the same 4-6 core heroes are always picked in competitive matches, and the remaining choices fall to the same pool of about 10 or 12 other heroes.

There's a reason for it.  You have roles within a team (that aren't necessarily present in demigod, although its not mature enough to really say) and those roles are filled most efficiently by specific hero and item combinations.  Demigod doesn't really have that, and I'm not convinced it needs it either.

i dont want a shitload i want 20ish   but over 3 years  i would like to have 12 by the end of this year

I do not understand the issue with DotA either.

I don't think people are assholes by default, they become assholes when they pay for a game that they have been told is better than DotA, when DotA does so much better than demigod.

DotA players are the Emos of the RTS Scene; they think they're all "non-conformists" and as such they view Demigod as the "mainstream" infringing on their little haven from the corporate controlled, sheep filled world.

I wish my grass was a DotA player; and cut itself.

I still dont understand, DotA is quite clearly a better game with more depth than Demigod, if Demigod was marketed towards casuals I dont think anyone would have had any problem with it.

Hahahahahahaha. That made my night.

DotA has about as much depth as a page 3 underwear model.
Using 10 out of 90 Heroes because the other 80 are pointless and analyisng animation sequences in order to rob people, including your team mates, of killing blows as an instrument to success is not depth.

Seriously?

No depth?

Can you please explain to me what jungling, Juking counter picks are?

How the team fights are so unpredictable?

How there are so many different strategies and hero+item combinations that work against what your oponents does?

And besides.

Your amount of good heroes are false and pulled out of your ass.

In the current version 18-30 are chosen competitively, and almost all the heroes are balanced, or at least not bad, so please give me some examples of crap DotA heroes.

This is a pro player called n3rf analysing DotA, I asked him since he is more qualified than me.

 

[15:50] <[4K^N3rf]> 1: dota has an extremely high variaty of heroes and in those heroes, playstyles. Many people are fooled by fixing themselves on a single skill/itembuild, but if you take for instance earth shaker there are different working playstyles and itembuilds than the usual fissure max. A friend of mine goes fissure/enchant/aftershock/after/after/ulti/after on es. And it works.

ZehDon, thank you for proven my point that jerks are everywhere, not only in DOTA.

Yeah, they will pull statistics out of their ass to win arguments.:)

How is that statistics? You were quoting a persons opinion, on DOTA versus other games. In no way does the argument show that there are NOT DOTA players who assume that game is far better than any game you have to pay for. Which was most of the point being thrown at you. I've never played DOTA but that doesn't mean my opinion is invalid either. That many hero's on paper seems to have its depth, but I can see problems with it. I don't doubt it has a strong following, or a good community, but from the way you are acting already I can tell that just like any game, a portion of the "hardcore" fans of that community appear to be quite stuck up. Demigod is a completely different game, no matter which way you look at it. Even if it took influence from DOTA it still has its own gameplay elements, its own balancing issues, and simply adding in that many hero's because DOTA did it is a invalid argument. Look at Demigod's system, and imagine playing as more hero's in large quanities. Your bound to see some carbon copies no matter where you go. Demigod being a "real" game release also has to keep some story element to every new character they include. Where as in DOTA I imagine if you wanted a orc mage type character as a hero you wouldn't run into a problem.

 

It would be nice to see more opinions in this thread regarding the game that it is located in the community for. What else would everyone want to see for some more level designs?

I was quoting a persons experience after 3 years of playing the game more or less competitively, he is a member of the four kings dota team wich is a huge team in the e-sporst world. And besides it wasnt on dota VS OTHER GAMES it was on DotA and if it had depth, something it most certainly has. A competitive player like him would have to have paid for WC III:)

 

My only comment on that is please play it before you comment on it, it has millions of different available strategies, so dont even bother commenting on it compared to demigod.

"copies" are good, as long as they arent carbon copies nothing is wrong with that, if they made demigod's in large quantities(say 50 or so) that would not be what the OP is asking for, he is asking for more diversity with doubling the amounts of demigod, in no way am i arguing that a game that have been developed for a couple of years by a huge team of developers should have the same amount of in depth characters as a mod that has been in development for four years(im not entirely sure about that one) by a couple of different people. I am arguing that DotA is one of the few games you can compare this game to, since they are both in the same genre.

When comparing the two DotA shows imense depth and options for strategies, ganks etc...

In demigod you have capture the flag. The only hiding tactic ive heard about is teleporting on top of rook to lure people into him.

In dota controlling the fog of war is a form of art.

 

 

I would like them to add a good fog of war code with maps to support juking,

Actually it does.  If I've never played chess how could I make a comment arguing its merits/failures?

I'm sorry, but armchair game analysis/truthiness is no substitute for actually playing and learning.  Until you become good at a game (ie. win most of your matches and compete/play at a high level), you really cannot comment on a game's level of depth.

Most people on these boards that flame DoTA have proven themselves to be

a ) really terrible at it

b ) never played it and are going by their "keen game-design" instincts

c ) played for a while, but never at a high level

 

I know a lot of pros that play DoTA and yet if they ever complain about imbalance, it's only on minor imbalance issues.  There's also a very very deep layer of depth that's unfortunately not apparent to the newbie.  The result is that the newbie gets slaughtered without having any idea how he lost. 

 

"Oh, that hero kicked my ass.  He must be OP.  He couldn't have creeped/jungled more efficiently than me.  He couldn't have made a more optimised build than me.  His hero couldn't simply be one that counters mine"

 

It's one thing to rage about a game.  It's another thing completely to vomit verbal diarhea all over the boards filled with untruths and outright lies. 

 

Finally, let's make sure we're talking about the same thing.  We're not talking about which game is BETTER or MORE FUN - that's completely subjective.  We're talking about a game's DEPTH.  Note that I'm also not discussing Demigod - I'm only defending DoTA in this post.

Predicted just gave a quote from a pro player who played DOTA many years and knows the game's mechanics by hard. It was a honest opinion, without being inflammatory, or rude, or elitist or whatever you would call it. And he told you that no, it's not true that "Using 10 out of 90 Heroes because the other 80 are pointless". And now you, Shane Dyck, want us to agree with your opinion, when you clearly stated you didn't even play DOTA before?

Yeah, Demigod is a different game, but not that different! If some elements from DOTA would work here, adding more depth to the gameplay, then why not? Just to keep away the asshats? If someone likes a game to have more depth, does it make him an eletist jerk? No. A jerk is a jerk and they are everywhere, even on this forums.

I will try to explain my point of view regarding the need for more heroes in Demigod:

Demigod, as DOTA, is a team based game. It's not a 1v1 deathmatch. The heroes, both in dota and in demigod, are not balanced for 1v1 play. And they shouldn't be. Essentially a team has to have some unique demigods in order to complement each others weaknesses and to counter the enemy's strenghts. This is the core gameplay of DOTA and Demigod. And in order for each game (match) not to be predictable, there is the need for more heroes to choose from, more combinations. I agree that the abilites of these new demigods should be choosen very carefully in order for them to remain unique and useful. But with the help of the community, i don't think this is a hard thing to achieve.

Of course that in DOTA, the number of abilities per hero are less than the ones per demigod (4 base abilities in DA versus 7-9 base abilities in DG), and this is why we don't need that many heroes as in DOTA (like 80-90). In Demigod i think that any number between 20 and 30 would be enough. The more, the better, as long as they don't start to repeat themselves. In any case, not just 12.

You said that instead of making new demigods, they should add additional abilities to the already existing demigods. And this is a wrong thing to do, imo. I'll explain myself to you, Frogboy:

I think the "few demigods - more abilities" rule is flawed concerning this type of game (like Dota, Lol, DG), because the whole idea is the game's simplicity vs the complex team play. That means a moderate to big collection of easy to use heroes with few abilities, lots of items, and strong teamplay base. By adding more abilities to the few demigods that exist, i think the game idea shifts to a WoW-like experience, with three or four builds per hero, and lots of items, and it will most likely ruin the jump-in and play feeling and will lower the attraction the game has to new players.  Somewhat distant, it's a principle like Counterstrike...easy to learn, few player-based features to know, but strong teamplay and instant immersion in the gameplay.

I think that is what you call served.

I'm not wanting you to agree with my opinion. I'm simply stating, that just because something works in DOTA doesn't mean it would work here. I also did not ONCE get into the argument about which game had more depth or which was better. Not only is this not the board for that, i'm clearly aware that due to my lack of ability with the game DOTA I have no place to say this is better or that is better, which if you want to read my post, I didn't say anything. I merely said that I could see the possible depth of a lot of hero's and also the possible problems.

Therefore my opinion was not INVALID. I never made a comment arguing anythings failures or success. I was trying to turn this back into a discussion about Demigod, while making it clear that just because a game draws comparisons with another game you can't just automatically assume that something that worked for the other game will work for this one. Case and point, Starcraft and Command and Conquer Red Alert 2 are both RTS games. Red Alert 2 has more "team options" than Starcraft, because of that I feel Starcraft should have more teams. That is a illogical argument. I'm not commenting on ANYTHING that presents a logical gameplay reason for the Starcraft game to have more teams. It would be the same with this argument. Regardless of the fact that they are similar genres, I wasn't arguing the comparing of them, I was arguing how fair it is to say that whatever worked for DOTA would automatically work for Demigod. You need to take into account Demigod's engine, story, its own balance issues, and the playability of adding anything in before you do it. It has nothing to do with whether DOTA or did it or not. You guys need to lay of the "AUTO TURRET" defense for DOTA. I never once insulted it, or bragged it down, yet I was jumped on like I was some type of DOTA hater and flamer.

I agree with Dead Ghost; this game needs more depth.

Everyone who has ever played DotA, knows how hard & unforgiving this game is. You have to understand the concepts of:

• Synergies between you and your team
  
• Cons/pros of majority of heroes (how to fight them and how to exploit your hero's strong attributes)
• Various skill build for your hero (which & why to choose)
• Ganking and surviving ganks
• Various item builds (that tremendously change the flow of the game)
• Last hitting/denying mobs/structures
• Movement on the map (how to run away/ambush your opponents)
• Controlling lanes and moving between them
• Communicating with your team (warning about incoming gank, preparing ganks etc.)
• Placing wards (together with such issues like: when to buy & how many)
• . . .

This examplifies how unfriendly is this game for casual player. That is why I am very happy that such game like DG was created. The problem with DG is that DG tries to be opposite to DotA: it is basically too easy, or should I rather say too shallow. DG really needs more unique items (not only +% to hp/mana regen/supply), bigger maps (more complicated) and a couple more things.

Granted, this game is called DG, not DotA v.2.0. That is why we should have heroes limited to 20 (my opinion), flags, selection of maps, minions, citadel upgrades etc. I really don't think that adding recipies or some kind of crafting system would be bad. The same goes with maps: why having a few more lanes would be worse?

Maybe I will sound like a "DotA fan", but really - if there won't be enough depth in this game, people will slowly start to forget about DG and move on to play some new games.

Providing I have time, I will try to put a big idea thread about all the proposals I have in order to make the game better.

We are simply showing how demigod have little to no depth while proving that DotA have loads of it, and stating that in order to demigod to improve it has to move towards DotA in order to be successfull, and one of those steps would be adding new demigods.

 

im sorry, you came right after one who did.

Because I've never played DOTA it was fair for me to look at the possibilities of both aspects. I can't say it's better or worse based on that fact. Regardless, DemiGod released not that long ago, until we see what happens after the multiplayer fixes, you can't simply say the ONLY way for it to improve would to be to head into the direction of DOTA. As you don't know that, for all you know Demigod could be better going into the opposite direction, it all depends on what works and what doesn't work. Which was my utlimate point. DOTA may be similar, but it's not the EXACT same. I'd say let the game develop on its own for a while before a decision like that can actually be looked at properly.