Stem Cell Mania » Forum Post by jdkeepsmiling

DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+4111

I'm with you. People will say, "The Government shouldn't fund this because...". Well, there are folks that don't like the Postal Service, but we all fund it. See, I know many products and mucho dinero will come from this "Biological Revolution", but we'll be behind the curve...many countries are already funding research...but worse, we'll not be doing our best to limit and eliminate suffering.

What won't change is the demand for cures. For free and without risks. The cost of these and many other diseases potentially treatable with Stem Cells to our economy is immense. Folks will argue about a bridge or museum, etc. and how that will stimulate the economy but be totally resistant to the needs of researchers trying to help the sick and infirmed and, incidentally create an industry that will make jobs, and actually help people.

Real world research should not cross certain ethical and moral boundaries. Agreed. Where they lie is a bone of great contention. Religion has to get into the act, of course...that's ok too...just as long as we all realize the human suffering we're not helping due to "-isms". There's no faking it...it's a whole new "Scopes Monkey Trial". Deja vu all over again.

Hard choices will have to be made: Either we will tie the hands and feet of science excessively, or not. Hopefully we can find alternatives and 'work arounds', but there're no guarantees. There are no guarantees that Stem Cell research will create any cures.

The guarantee is this: 1. Knowledge will be gained with research, and where that branches to no one knows. 2. If we do not do the research, we face the infirmed and say, "It's G-d's will you are ill." That is a lie, and unacceptable.

Certainly I don't advocate the wholesale slaughter of blastulas, gastrulas, embryos or fetuses. I can't imagine anyone would. I do think that umbilical cord blood (which is currently wasted), and cells donated by consenting adults is beyond any politician's yea or nay.

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Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1047

I think a question should be asked why the federal government should invest in this type of research.

As has been mentioned before, this type of research is not real promising to begin with, so once again, why does the federal government have to fund something else.

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Yup, that thing pictured above is what is causing all these divisiveness and argument. It is a human embryonic stem cell. During his eight years in office, President Bush took a hard line on the stem cell issue, eventually banning the use of federal monies in research using these guys. Now President Obama has opened to door for money to flow into this research once again.

I'll tackle this piece first. So not only are we blowing money on an $800 billion stimulus bills that will only sink us more, not only are we blowing $400 billion more on a bill so full of pork you can stick a bar thru it and BBQ it, not only are we throwing away money to terrorist in Gaza, not only are we gonna fund universal healthcare, all this during an "economic crisis" (Obama's own words), now we can add stem cell reseach funds to the deficit.

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Island - so what you are basically arguing is for the government to get out of funding ANY scientific research? I beleive, and I could be wrong that most government grants for medical research are actually channeled through the military or the CDC or NIH. I don't know much about how much is actually spent on medical research by the government, but I could see where there would be a savings by just letting private interests do the research.

Charles - As far as I undestand what has happened, no additional monies were allocated to stem cell research. What took place was allowing stem cell research projects to qualify for funding that is already in place. It's not like the NIH is going to be pushing this, usually researchers come to the NIH or CDC and ask ofr funding on certain projects, and they have to go through quite a process to get funded. Now if stem cell research is a component of a project, it is not automatically ruled out.

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

just sit back and watch all the abuses that will result because of this. The money being paid to young girls for their unborn babies. I can see the handwriting on the wall.

This is not a good thing.

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I only have a problem with fedral funding.

If this is so promising, why aren't the drug companies tripping over themselves to provide the miracle cure that they can cost the average american out of affording.

I just don't buy the argument that since no one else will, the government should.

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Charles - As far as I undestand what has happened, no additional monies were allocated to stem cell research. What took place was allowing stem cell research projects to qualify for funding that is already in place. It's not like the NIH is going to be pushing this, usually researchers come to the NIH or CDC and ask ofr funding on certain projects, and they have to go through quite a process to get funded. Now if stem cell research is a component of a project, it is not automatically ruled out.

If you can prove to me that more money will not be spent, I can accept your comment. Otherwise, you are just making excuses for something that, like john above said, should not be funded in the first places.

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Charles - I cannot prove that no money will be spent, in fact I am sure some will be spent, but it will not be additional funds, which seemed to be the beef you had in your earlier post. I read it as you were pissed we were spending MORE money on this. The funding will come from the same pool as all other funding for medical research. I can understand the problem some of you have with the government funding medical research in general, but that was not really the point of my post. I wonder if the problem for the drug companies had been the availablilty of the stem cells? Also, they could be working on stuff and we would not know about it. It takes years for drug companies to research and get approved medications and they are not likely to advertise stuff that might work 3 years from now.

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Charles - I cannot prove that no money will be spent, in fact I am sure some will be spent, but it will not be additional funds, which seemed to be the beef you had in your earlier post. I read it as you were pissed we were spending MORE money on this. The funding will come from the same pool as all other funding for medical research. I can understand the problem some of you have with the government funding medical research in general, but that was not really the point of my post. I wonder if the problem for the drug companies had been the availablilty of the stem cells? Also, they could be working on stuff and we would not know about it. It takes years for drug companies to research and get approved medications and they are not likely to advertise stuff that might work 3 years from now.

As I said, you can not prove more money will not be spent. You can believe anything you want but history shows that things like this never stop at what people like you want to believe. Considering Obama is currently on a spending spree, it won't surprise me that not only will he lift this stop but he will also add more money to future spending bills for this. Believewhat you want, Obama is trying to impose his concept oif change to this country in the first 100 days and any smart person knows good things come to those who wait, Obama does not show signs of being a patient man.

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If your cool with destroying one life to save another, then I guess there isn't a problem. If you believe your not a living thing until your born, again I guess it's not problem. I'll bet dollars to donuts everyone here is glad they weren't the embryo the lab tech came for, even if you were grown in a dish. All life does what it can in its power to survive. You or a family member has a debilitating condition, that's tragic, so how many dissected embryos would be too many? If swallowing them whole eased or cured your ailment would you do it? No right or wrong answer.

Positive results have been reached with adult stem cells, that do not require the host to be destroyed. I'm not very religious. I'm not entirely against abortion, though I don't believe that should be the preferred method of birth control. Nor do I believe the government should be providing the conditions for life only to destroy it in hopes of producing results. No problem if this material comes from legitimate medical waste. What does this say about us a a people, when life is as disposable as a candy wrapper. Just because some other country does it should we? When is enough enough? Especially with my tax dollars!

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When is enough enough? Especially with my tax dollars

Everyone always uses this "not with my tax dollars" as an excuse as to why some things should not be done. How else will anything get done? It is always the NIMBY cry!

As I said, you can not prove more money will not be spent. You can believe anything you want but history shows that things like this never stop at what people like you want to believe. Considering Obama is currently on a spending spree, it won't surprise me that not only will he lift this stop but he will also add more money to future spending bills for this. Believewhat you want, Obama is trying to impose his concept oif change to this country in the first 100 days and any smart person knows good things come to those who wait, Obama does not show signs of being a patient man.

Sometimes you really need to listen Charles, did you 'hear' anything that was said, or did you just brush over and just want to fly at someone with your way of thinking just because Obama gave the ok to have these research done?

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+917

I agree that if the results are that promising then private research will pursue it and do a much better job than any Federal projects.

Let me keep my money or fund what research I will.

Do you really have that much faithin the feds? Because of their amazing management of every other project thus far?

THe smartest people in the world don't strive to work for the gov't. Think on that!

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Everyone always uses this "not with my tax dollars" as an excuse as to why some things should not be done. How else will anything get done? It is always the NIMBY cry!

Hmm, how else can anything get done. So are you suggesting the Gov't is responsible for everything ever invented, created, discovered, fixed, improved and rebuilt?

Sometimes you really need to listen Charles, did you 'hear' anything that was said, or did you just brush over and just want to fly at someone with your way of thinking just because Obama gave the ok to have these research done?

I don't listen? Why do you people keep talking about this as if embryonic stem cell was banned? And why don't you people keep ignoring or avoiding John's question which I have seen asked many times but never see an answer to it:

If this is so promising, why aren't the drug companies tripping over themselves to provide the miracle cure that they can cost the average american out of affording.

Where is the answer to this? Constant complaining about how the drug companies make billions (or millions, what ever it is) off of expensive medicines, yet no complaint about them applying this money to new research. Where is the answer? Give us a decent answer to this and I'll retract my comments.

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Do you really have that much faithin the feds? Because of their amazing management of every other project thus far?

I wouldn't say it's faith in the Feds but faith in a man who happens to be from their party. It's my belief that had Bush persued this, they would have bashed him equally as they did for him not wanting to fund it.

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Darn, meant to say "do" on my comment 2 comments above, not "don't".

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I don't listen? Why do you people keep talking about this as if embryonic stem cell was banned? And why don't you people keep ignoring or avoiding John's question which I have seen asked many times but never see an answer to it:

You people? The research was vetoed by George Bush remember? There was a big stink about that, but obviously you weren't listening! This is way beyond politics, this is not about who voted for whom, which seems to be the only focus you have.

I don't listen? Why do you people keep talking about this as if embryonic stem cell was banned? And why don't you people keep ignoring or avoiding John's question which I have seen asked many times but never see an answer to it:

No you don't. You see what is written, but you're not really reading! In your head are a few key phrases that you see (heard) and nothing else anyone says matters.

Hmm, how else can anything get done. So are you suggesting the Gov't is responsible for everything ever invented, created, discovered, fixed, improved and rebuilt?

You're right, how else can anything else get done, if not for private dollars, then federal money does it! And as for the rest, you said it I didn't!

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Everyone always uses this "not with my tax dollars" as an excuse as to why some things should not be done. How else will anything get done? It is always the NIMBY cry!

Donna when a private company invents a new product, the shareholders (i.e. investors) share the profits or losses. When the government is involved all taxpayers share the losses, if it's profitable they hand it off to some company and it's shareholders share the profit. How is that good? Why are taxpayers the ones that must take the risk? Can you show me a gov. sponsored research project that has provided profit back to the taxpayer as a direct result of its investment?

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The research was vetoed by George Bush remember?

Government funding for the research was vetoed, not the research itself. Private firms could do the research, but without gov. $$$. This did not include adult stem cell research.

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JDKEEPSMILIING,

Thanks for writing the article...

Now correct me if I am wrong, but the goal of embryonic stem cell research is to save lives.

In contrast to adult stem cells, an embryonic stem cell is a human life in its embryonic stage, a stage we all passed through in growing to the stage we are today. So the moral question arises.....Should the government sanction killing innocent embryonic life even if good could come from it?

I say no...research that kills human living embroyos can never be justified and to know my tax monies go toward this makes my blood boil.

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Now correct me if I am wrong, but the goal of embryonic stem cell research is to save lives. Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and diabetes are all within the cross hairs of this research.

I haven't as of yet read all the comments, so please forgive me if I'm repeating a point that has already been made.

To date, there is absolutely shred of evidence that human embryonic stem cells will cure or treat dreadful diseases such as these.

On the other hand, during the time of Pres. Bush's ban on funding embryonic stem cells for research, the incentive for scientists to develop ethical and morally acceptable methods using adult stem cells...and it paid off....in 6 years, adult stem cell research has produced cures and treatments for many diseases and ailments.

You cannot use the life argument against something that will save lives, it makes you sound highly hypocritical.

What? so Utilitarianism thinking about human life is good? The ends justify the means is good?

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You people? The research was vetoed by George Bush remember? There was a big stink about that, but obviously you weren't listening! This is way beyond politics, this is not about who voted for whom, which seems to be the only focus you have.

Government funding for the research was vetoed, not the research itself. Private firms could do the research, but without gov. $$$. This did not include adult stem cell research.

Thank you Nitro for reaffirming my point. I guess I wasn't listening too well to the news when they said "no funding" as oppose to "no research".

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I say no...research that kills human living embroyos can never be justified and to know my tax monies go toward this makes my blood boil.

I agree with this as well in a moral sense and also in a religious sense. I also question, like Nitro said above, why should we (the tax payers) be footing the bill for something someone else will financially benefit from? Not to mention that with all the (pardon my Frennch) BS about healthcare being expensive, how will anyone benefit from these cures if they can't even afford them? Even Obama's univeral answer will no make these possible cures free.

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BTW JD, even though we disagree, this is a great article. I love these kinds of debates where we say what we feel without actually insulting other people. Right forever?

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Yes good article.

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I have a side qestion that I cannot wrap my head around. If so many of you deplore abortion, and see this policy as a part of the abortion issue, why are there not massive protests outside fertility clinics? These are where almost all of these embryos come from. It's not the abortion clinic that is storing thousands of embryos. Where is the anger at the fertility clinic for creating a bunch of embyos and then throwing them out? If you are not mad at that, then you cannot be mad at this, becuase instead of being thrown out, they are being used for research purposes, which is at least some positive out of the situation.

2nd, no one at all has commented on my idea of putting restirctions on this type of research like Michigan has. With these commonsense restrictions, effectively making the abortion embryos a non-sequiter, what is the resistance? Thoughts please....

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