Kingbee,

Cite the chapter (s) and verse (s) and we'll discuss.

Yes, but I'm not going to.

I'm trying really hard not to get pulled into the abortion debate once again but I feel it happening.

Plan B is NOT abortion.  RU 486 is the abortion pill.  Plan B is like a heavy dose of the birth control pill that will help to prevent conception, if you are already pregnant taking Plan B will NOT terminate the pregnancy.

How does one practice chastity in the case of rape?

Actually, I meant it in 2 ways....

In classroom sex ed, our children are taught about engaging in "safe sex", which is Plan A (use of birth control) and if that fails, put Plan B into effect....go to the nearest Planned Parenthood clinic and have an abortion.

EL-DUDERINO POSTS:

I disagree. Plan B does both...prevents contraception and kills the baby.

Here's an article dated back in 2006 when the FDA approved Plan B as a non-prescriptuve drug that explains it.

By Peter J. Smith

WASHINGTON, D.C., August 24, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) – The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced today its approval of Plan B, the abortifacient “morning-after pill” as a non-prescription drug to anyone over 18. The move has caused an outcry from pro-life groups who say that the high hormones doses of progestin in Plan-B also cause the abortion of a conceived human embryo and leave women vulnerable to health risks.

Under the FDA’s rules, Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc. will be allowed to distribute Plan-B on a dual prescription program that requires women over 18 to show proof of age, and minors to exhibit a doctor’s prescription. The company claims two Plan B pills prevent pregnancy once taken within 72 hours of sexual intercourse.

“When used as directed, Plan B effectively and safely prevents pregnancy," the FDA claimed in a statement.

However, Associate Executive Director Dr. Gene Rudd of the Christian Medical Association, the nation's largest faith- based association of doctors, said in a press release that the FDA’s decision gives a “politically motivated definition of pregnancy” and “violates the crucial medical principle of informed consent”.

“Many women in America would not take it if they realized that it can have the effect of preventing a fertilized ovum--a living human embryo--from implanting in the womb and having a chance to be born, said Dr. Rudd.

Pro-life spokesmen have pointed out that not only does Plan-B act as an “emergency contraceptive” by preventing the release of an egg for fertilization, but that it causes the abortion of an already conceived human embryo by making the womb’s nourishing endometrium hostile to implantation.

In a recent press release, the president of Human Life International, Rev. Thomas J. Euteneuer, stated "President Bush's implied support for the abortion-causing drug Plan B is completely inconsistent with his recent veto of the embryonic stem cell research (ESCR) funding bill. What the president apparently fails to realize is that Plan B kills the same innocent unborn children that the ESCR process does."

Both the Christian Medical Association, an association of 17,000 doctors, and Concerned Women for America (CWA) have criticized the FDA’s absurd rationale in distributing Plan B without medical supervision, which requires medical oversight for lower doses of progestin (the hormone in birth control pills) in order to protect women from serious health complications such as blood clots and stroke.

CWA president Wendy Wright also criticized the FDA’s rules which make keeping Plan-B out of the hands of minors seem just as effective as preventing minors from receiving cigarettes.

“Any adult male who is having sex with a minor could walk into a pharmacy, buy the drug, and coax the girl into taking the pill,” said Concerned Women for America’s Wendy Wright. “Parents have the right to know their daughter’s medical needs and to support them in the process.  The FDA’s irresponsible action today takes those rights out of a parent’s hands and gives them to ill-intentioned perpetrators.” 

The decision to approve Plan-B now removes the major obstacles in the confirmation process of acting FDA commissioner Andrew C. von Eschenbach, whom Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) and Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) had vowed to stall pending approval of Plan-B.

The person doing the rape isn't practicing chasity. The victim of the rape can have been chaste before and after the rape.

No it doesn't "kill the baby" any more than the regular birth control pills do.  Plan B prevents conception and must be taken within 72 hours of the intercourse.  In fact the longer you wait the less chance it has to be effective.  It will NOT terminate an existing pregnancy therefore does NOT kill a baby.

Your article is obviously biased from the get go because it refers to Plan B as an "abortifacient".  As I have stated it is NOT one.  Plan B prevents a pregnancy plain and simple which is all that it claims to do.  If your argument is the fact that it can prevent a fertilized egg from implanting, that's not abortion because an abortion is terminating a pregnancy, since the woman in question isn't pregnant yet it cannot be abortion.

The pharmacy should only be giving the drug to the woman who will be taking it.  If they hand it to a male the pharmacy should be held accountable because they aren't doing their jobs.  If an older female gets the Plan B for a minor then that female should be held accountable for misrepresenting the use for Plan B.

And what is the woman supposed to do if she is impregnated by the rapist.  As someone who has known more than one woman who has been raped I know that they would have felt tortured having to carry a child to term after such an act.  Luckily none of them got pregnant from the event.  But this is why things like Plan B need to exist to give women options.

Still waiting to hear any evidence that supports this. Supporting sex education and/or abortion and/or using birth control when having sex is not the same thing as opposing chastity. Can you point me to anywhere where Obama has said Abstinence itself is bad and/or shouldn't be done?

do da names david & bathsheba ring any bells?

of course not.

And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.Matt. 1:18-19

You are misinformed. Regular birth control pills also kill the baby. It's called chemical abortion.

Here's how.

Scientists have confirmed that at the moment the sperm and the egg join (fertilization), new human life is created, and is completely different from his/her mother. The creation of a baby occurs at ferttilization and zygote stage begins the nine month journey.

Birth control pills work in several ways.....they act to prevent the release of the egg from the ovary, but very often breakthough ovulation occurs and the egg is released and is available to be fertilized by the sperm. The pill also causes the cervical mucus to thicken making it difficult for the sperm to reach the egg, but that does happen and the egg is fertilized. And scientists have told us what happens at fertilization, right? The woman is pregnant....the fertilized egg by this time is 5 to 7 days old tries to attach itself to the lining of the uterus where it receives the nourishment to grow, but can't becasue the chemical in the pill prevents it by slowing down the movement. If the baby doesn't successfully attach to the lining, he dies and is expelled from the body during menustration. This is the process that's called "Chemical abortion" and is why the pill is referred to as an abortificiant. The pill, the patch, the IUD all cause chemical abortions.

El-Duderino,

We've discussed the case of the rape victim becoming pregnant before. And there is no doubt whatsoever that in most cases, emotionally we might want to have the baby aborted. But emotions don't always lead to the right conclusion.

The reality is that while the rape is horrible, there is now an innocent life and two wrongs don't make a right. It makes sense to punish the rapist, but not the innocent baby in the womb with death.  

In my view, killing an innocent baby in the womb to relieve the suffering of the woman can never be justified. The woman should carry the baby to term and give him up for adoption.

I was in VA recently and heard a true story about a young girl who lived in Panama fifty some odd years ago.  She was a track athlete with a bright future including a pass to go to the United States to train and I believe she had a shot at the Olympics. 

An older man took an interest in this young girl eventually impregnating her.  She was young, single, talented, and now had a choice.  She could get rid of the child; no one had to know,  and keep her promising career or she could leave it all behind and give the child the gift of life.  The older man disappeared.  She decided, against all protests from those around her to give birth to this child and give up her chance to go to the Olympics.  She was disgraced, and her chance at going to the U.S. was taken away from her. 

The man who told us this story, shocked us when he said..."I was that child."  He's now the father of I think he said seven and the grandfather of twenty seven.  He's also the Pastor of a church in New York that has 35,000 members that he built years and years ago with only four members. 

Now that is how God blesses those who do the right thing.  I can vouch for this personally and there are many many more stories where this came from.  When people put their selfish desires over that of anothr human being, they will not receive the abundant blessings like they do when they put another first.    They say you cannot buy happiness.  Nor can you buy being blessed to this capacity.  Most just have no idea what they are missing out on when they constantly and consistently put themselves first.  It's all about "me" afterall isn't it? 

I didn't go to college (graduated #10 in my H.S. class)  because I "got punished" with a pregnancy but I wouldn't change a thing.  God totally blessed me with three beautiful boys and all three have college degrees.  One even is going for his Ph.D and I am totally proud of each of them and their accomplishments but more than that....their father and I are constantly being praised for what fine young men they turned out to be by all that know them.   Now that's a blessing money cannot buy. 

Kingbee would you like to be more specific here?  I'd be interested in what you are insinuating.  God inflicted abortions? 

Is this what you're talking about Kingbee?  Nope, no abortion here.  I don't get your point.  No abortion and nothing here about God doing any punishing.  In fact, Mary's pregnancy was considerd a blessing; nothing about a punisment.  Did you read her words about how she would be blessed above all other woman for giving birth to the son of God? 

 In fact Mary was protected (by God) from having her unborn child not only taken from her (like in stoning) but also after the child was born they fled to Egypt when Joseph was warned in a dream. 

I know the story well.  How well do you know this story?  Let's see.  Nope, no punishment by God inflicting pregnancy nor abortion.  Nope you haven't proven your point here.

Any other cases where God inflicts punishment by pregnancy or abortion because you falling a bit short here? 

Yes, it is a much better idea to let the teenaged girl get pregnant... (because they are not gonna stop having sex, and they are not going to tell the parents)...

BTW:

Should be:

8  Thou shalt not bear firearms in self defense.

such a blessing that joseph planned to take the high road and sneak her outta town to prevent her from being publicly scorned? 

if only you'd ended that statement with a "how conveeenient"

i dunno how i coulda mistaken these events for punishment and infanticide:

And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. Nevertheless, because by this deed you have
utterly  scorned the LORD, the child who is born to you shall die."

And the LORD afflicted the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and he became sick. David therefore sought God on behalf of the child. And David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground. And the elders of his house stood beside him, to raise himfrom the ground, but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. On the seventh day the child died.

ain't as if da lord beat around the burning bush or something and didn't come right out and directly say i'm punishing you by killing your kid for not committing chastity.

fun fact. ectopic pregnancy is pregnancy where the ovum implants somewhere other than the uterous, usually in the tubes.

2% of all pregnancies are ectopic. When it implants in the tubes it has a 50% of being naturally aborted (there is a mechanism in place to naturally abord tubal pregnancies). should it not naturally abort the mother and child will both die without treatment (treatment is typically abortion to prevent the death and allow future pregnancies, rarely however treatments are taken to attempt to salve the child, it is risky but sometimes work)...

That is just ONE way in which natural abortions occur...

Natural occuring abortions FAR surpass any amount artificial abortions.

God: the most experienced abortionist with a higher success rate than any other abortion doctor. Ask for God for your abortion! only 0$, no money down, no credit checks!

This is still a bone of contention, and will remain one for a long time to come.

For me pregnancy doesn't occur until the egg has implanted in the uterus and all of the pills, and plan B, certainly prevent that from happening thus are not abortificents.

And what about the case that recently happened where a 9 year old was impregnated by her step father?  Carrying the child to term would have killed her and most likely the child she carried.

I'm happy for you.  I'm glad that the choices you made in your life worked out, but why deny others the right to make their choices about their lives just because you disagree with those choices?

To both Lula and KFC.  Look we three have had these debates before and it is safe to say that we will never, ever see eye to eye as this is considered.  Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Interesting. For a person who's comments come across as "I am a well educated person", it's strange that you couldn't simply call her "Sarah Palins daughter" but instead you give her a "the b_tch little wh_re" kind of discription. So if Obama's little girls (God forbid) every found themselves "being punished" with a child, would you discribe them as "the Obama girl" as well? It's interesting how quick people are to diminish someone who happens to be party of the opposing party yet when it comes to someone from their party (or someone they like) it's a "mistake". Interesting double standard in deed.

Not meant to be insulting, but I would have to say that these situations would not be punishment but stupid. I mean having a baby is not like the wind carrying a dandylion and helping it grow somewhere else. Having a baby means actually performing the act of sex (with consent of course) and if you are too dumb to realize that there is always the posibility to become pregnant everytime you have sex (and are able to have children of course) then having a child while in high school or with the posibility of dying is kinda stupid to me as oppose to a punishment.

Obama said if is two daughters made a mistake (and become pregnant), he wouldn't want them punished with a baby.

I said that a baby is neither a mistake nor a punishment, rather he/she is a gift and mircale from Almighty God.

KINGBEE POSTS:

lula posts:

KFC POSTS #40

I agree.

KINGBEE POSTS:

David committed grevious sin against Almighty God's Sixth and Ninth and Fifth Commandments. God knew of David's covetousness, his secret adultery, and that he was guilty in the death of Urais. God sent Nathan to David saying: "Thus saith the Lord, why hath thou done evil in My sight?" 

Lula posts #12

God is Just and He pronounced sentence over David's life and work for his most grevious sins. God's punishment was "I will raise up evil against thee our of thy own house and the child that is born to thee will surely die." Both sentences were executed and David suffered great anguish.

Although David confessed his sins, his bad example unleashed the worst passions within his family. The rest of the story bears this out.

Taltimer,

Ha. You raise a very good point.

okay, i'll concede this wasn't abortion but infanticide.  still destroying life as punishment for immorality and you're attempting to justify the murder of an innocent child???

as far as punishment for immorality by abortion as well as by infanticide goes:

Give them, O Lord –what will you give them?

Give them wombs that miscarry, and breasts that cannot nurse!  Because of all their evil in Gilgal,
I hate them there. On account of their evil deeds, I will drive them out of my land. I will no longer love them; all their rulers are rebels.

Ephraim will be struck down,  their root will be dried up; they will not yield any fruit. Even if they do bear children, I will kill their precious offspring.

3 Laws All Obamabots Must Obey...

1) An Obamabot can never insult Obama.
2) An Obamabot must obey all Obama's orders unless it conflicts with the first law.
3) An Obamabot must protest unless it conflicts with the first two laws.