EL-DUDERINO POSTS:

Becasue of love and God is love.

In this world, we human beings are the highest of God's living creatures....they have much, much higher dignity than animals. It's all about our end...the end of a thing is the purpose for which it was made...we are made for God while animals were created for us.

I think the government needs to get its nose out of just about everything.  Religion should be a private matter not one that is imposed by anyone including the government.

A lot.  I can speak somewhat about the US constitution because I have done some research on the matter, not extensive mind you but some.  I can't speak about the states at all because I have no idea how their individual constitutions were set up.

And I think we need to go back to whent he states had more control.  We need to have a very limited Federal Government.  Unfornately over the years it has become extremely bloated and prone to corruption.

Maybe I'm living in a bubble but I don't believe that's true.  Adultery is still a perfectly viable reason for divorce, as far as I'm aware.  Now whether someone is willing to file for divorce due to adultery is another matter entirely.

I definitely don't think that this is correct, but again maybe I'm living in a monogamy bubble.

Enlighten me, what is the difference?

That doesn't make it a public matter.  If you contracted some debilitating disease would you want that publicized?  Of course not because you have a right to keep that private even though you would have nurses, doctors, your family, etc invovled in your care.

At the moment it doesn't matter.  That is the standing interpretation until it is challenged and overturned.

and we are in complete agreement El-D! 

I agree.  I think the Supreme Court has alot to answer for.  They have made some very bad decisions and they are destroying America.  They are the ones who are completly out of order. 

Freedom "from" religion is getting more prevelant today.  God is being taken out of everything.  Where once we were allowed to have nativity scenes and the 10 commandments displayed at every town hall and public place in America are now being told to take them down (freedom from religion).  Schools are banning children from meeting together in afternoon groups if religion is concerned especially when it comes to Christianity  (freedom from religion).  Teachers have outlawed children bringing in any sort of books that mention God or Jesus or the bible even if it's the kid's choice to bring in the book for that reading period.  I heard one story when a teacher ripped up a child's religious drawing and said it was totally unacceptable.  Pretty interesting because in the same class a kid had drawn some gothic styled art and was accepted. 

As you know prayer, once a common thing not only among every classroom in America but even in locker rooms have been deemed unacceptable.  Coaches across the land who offered up prayers before a game have been asked to leave if they don't stop.  I can't count how many court cases were brought up because some footcoach coach who had prayed with his team for 20 years is all of a sudden told to stop because one kid complained.  (freedom from religion)

Now Freedom "of" religion is what our constitution speaks of.  That's because of the background of the pilgrims and those who had been persecuted in England and other places for their religious beliefs.  They had to choice between worshipping God in public or death  or imprisonment in many cases.   Our founding fathers wanted to ensure that not any one religion was enforced but that many faiths could worship freely in this new republic.    Many parts of the world this persecution is still going on.  Check out www.persecution.org if you want examples. 

So we are starting to explore the possiblilites where jail term will be a reality for any preacher who preaches against homosexuality in that it's a sin.  It's already happened in a few spots in the world already.  I know Canada had a case and I think Sweden there was a case.  Yep.  The pastor dared preach on Romans 1 and was jailed for it. 

They certainly had their role to play but I think it was mainly congress and the Presidency making power grabs that went unchecked (which violates the constitution by the way).  Basically no one was looking out for the states rights, even the states seem reluctant to say anything, and now it is almost too late to change it.

I think this could have been resolved better.  If the public places had been opened up to other religions putting up their religious work it would have complied with the constitution and everyone could have been satisfied.  However by only putting up Judeo Christian symbols it appeared like state sponsored religion which is against the constitution.

Again I think this is the schools overreacting to the situation.  If they would publicize that they allow all religious groups to meet after school and that they are merely providing a meeting place not endorsing the religion itself I think it would have solved the problem.  Unfortunately the schools took the cowards way out and eliminated religion entirely.

This kind of thing annoys me as well.  If the assignment is to do a drawing the teacher shouldn't get upset by what the kids draw no matter what it is.  Same with bringing in books from home.  The teacher isn't endorsing the religion rather they are endorsing the child's creativity which is very different.

This is because it appears that the coach, and school by proxy, are endorsing one religion over another.  Now if the coaches offered silent prayer that's different and should be allowed because then it's open to all religions.  Same with school prayer.  It's about the appearance of endorsing one religion over another which is a violation of the constitution since it gives the appearance of state sponsored religion.

And I agree with this.  Everyone should be ble to worship whatever they want to whether it be god, the sun,  or Joe Pesci.  But that must be done in such a way that it doesn't appear that the government is endorsing one over the other, that's also in that amendment.  And that's when we get into government buildings and schools as I've mentioned above.

I've heard of this before, possibly from you, and this scares the hell out of me.  No preacher should be thrown in jail for what they preach as long as they aren't inciting violence just like members of the KKK should be allowed to spread their filth (let me be clear that I am NOT calling what preachers say filth) around as long as they aren't inciting violence.  If this kind of crap starts happening here I will be there right beside people like you protesting it.

by then, I'm afraid it will be too late and the "genuine" Christians will go underground...they'll have to...just like they do in china. 

I just went to a garage sale today and got a book called "Men In Black."   It's about the Supreme Court and how much damage they've done over the years...I hope to dig into this book soon.   I had read somewhere recently where the SC really started going down in 1947 after some big decision, but I can't recall the specifics.  Maybe it'll be in this book. 

 It was a NY Times Best Seller.  Ever hear of it? 

I've heard of the movie and the comic book "men in black" but never the book about the supreme court, should be an interesting read for you though.

Lula posts:

Here's a story I found a few days ago....

http://www.wesleyjsmith.com:80/blog/2009/03/biologically-new-human-life-begins-when.html 

KINGBEE POSTS #149

The rite of burial.

read this story that just came in....

Butte, MT (LifeNews.com) -- The crash of a small airplane in Montana carrying a family from California after a ski trip has made the national news, but the mainstream media hasn't yet connected the dots. Were they to dig a little deeper, they would learn that the family killed in the crash has an infamous abortion connection.

The crash involved two daughters of a prominent California abortion business owner, Irving "Bud" Feldkamp, and their families.

Feldkamp owns the Family Planning Associates abortion business he purchased four years ago, but the mainstream media is only mentioning his ownership of a dental practice and that he is the CEO of Glen Helen Raceway Park in San Bernardino.

That is despite the fact that his 17 FPA abortion centers do more abortions in the state of California than Planned Parenthood, the nation's largest abortion business.

Their plane went down on Sunday killing daughters Vanessa and Amy, two of Feldkamp's sons-in-law, five grandchildren, the pilot and four family friends.

For pro-life advocates who are familiar with Feldkamp's exploits as an abortion business owner, the crash is sad news but it carries a certain irony.

The plane crashed into Catholic Holy Cross cemetery near the Butte airport and burst into flames. The site of the devastating impact and the deaths of the 14 passengers was near a memorial erected in the cemetery to honor unborn children who have died in abortions.

The memorial, called the Tomb of the Unborn, was erected as a dedication to all babies who have died because of abortion.

Gingi Edmonds, a young pro-life activist, noticed the connection and the irony associated with Feldkamp and the site of the plane crash.

"Although Feldkamp is not an abortionist, he reaps profits of blood money from the tens of thousands of babies that are killed through abortions performed every year at the clinics he owns," she says.

"His business in the abortion industry was what enabled him to afford the private plane that was carrying his family to their week-long vacation," Edmonds adds.

Edmonds, who spent time with the pro-life group Survivors of the Abortion Holocaust, helped organize and conduct a weekly campaign where youth activists stood outside of Feldkamp's mini-mansion in Redlands holding fetal development signs and raising community awareness regarding Feldkamp's abortion business ownership.

"Every Thursday afternoon we called upon Bud and his wife Pam to repent, seek God's blessing and separate themselves from the practice of child killing," she said.

Edmonds isn't sure if the plane crash is God's way of warning Feldkamp that he needs to end his involvement in the abortion industry, but she can't help but recall the Feldkamps reactions to her signs showing developing unborn children.

"Pam Feldkamp laughing at the fetal development signs, Bud Feldkamp trying not to make eye contact as he got into his car with a small child in tow" -- those are what she recalls.

"I only hope and pray that in the face of this tragedy, Feldkamp recognizes his need for repentance and reformation," Edmonds says.

"I pray that God will use this unfortunate catastrophe to soften the hearts of Bud and Pam and that they will draw close to the Lord and wash their hands of the blood of thousands of innocent children, each as precious and irreplaceable as their own," she concludes. 

these sorts of bizarre happenings happen all the time showing us that God is real and personal.  I know the experiences in my own life are no less awesome as what we see here in this bizarre plane crash.  It doesn't make me feel less pain for the families and friends who are grieving the loss of these beautiful families.   We should be on our knees on behalf of their families that are left behind. 

Some people believe it's Karma.....I believe it's the Sovereignty of God telling us he's alive and well.  He's giving mankind every chance to turn, repent and get on their knees as the end of the age is drawing close.  Many won't and even though the rocks fall on them, they'll still shake their fists to the sky and curse God. 

The problem is that bizarre happenings can also be explained by coincidence.

sometimes it is a coincidence but there are times when it's quite obvious it's not.  I think this was one of those times that we're kidding only ourselves when we call this a coincidence. 

yeah.

first of all, it happened on sunday.

secondly, it caused the death of young children.

thirdly, if man was meant to fly, he woulda been created with wings.

sure sounds like god hadda hand in it.

So what's your point?  Nobody is supposed to die on Sunday? 

what?  Young children never die? 

man doesn't fly, that's why he created airplanes. 

why couldn't he have?  Isn't God Sovereign?  Anything too hard for God? 

god said to abraham,
kill me a son.
abe said man,
you must be puttin me on.

god said no. abe said what?
god said you can do what you want abe, but
the next time you see me comin
you better run.

abe said where you want this killin done?
god said out on highway 61.
             --robert zimmerman

what's incredibly ironic is those calling or believing themselves to be "pro-life" taking even an iota of satisfaction or justifying the death of innocent children about whose existence as human beings there is no question whatsoever.

from 1st through 12th grade i attended mass 6 days a week during each school year (which began, as i recall, the first week in september and ended the 2nd week of june) so roughly 43 weeks x 12 years x 6 days or nearly 3100 masses, not including sundays during the 9 weeks of summer vacation, holy days on my own time, etc.

enough of those were requiems that i can still recite & sing both the entire production (both the priests' and attendees') in latin.

to the best of my knowledge not a single one of those was performed on behalf of anyone who never breathed air. 

what i'm asking about is not some sorta tomb of the unknown soldier memorial established as a matter of cultural politics, but an actual liturgical service, rite, ceremony, etc. performed on behalf of those who spontaneously die in utero. 

if there is such a thing, how long has it existed? 

oh...and where exactly do they spend eternity--those conceived in sin but never redeemed by baptism?

that's about the time when the sc began dismantling the horrendous injustices of american apartheid.

Yes, to my knowledge, if the parents requested one, there could be specific funeral Mass (liturgical rite) for those babies lost in utero. Or the baby could be remembered during the daily or Sunday Mass....

There is a time during both the Latin and Novus Ordo Mass that prayers for the commemortion of the dead are offered...

The Latin Mass during the canon, the prayers after the consecration are:

Be mindful, O Lord, of Thy servants and handmaids N. and N. who are gone before us with the sign of faith and sleep in the sleep of peace. To these, O Lord, and to all that rest in Christ, we beseech Thee, grant a place of resfreshment, light, and peace. Through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.

The Novus Ordo of the Holy Mass after the Apostles' Creed is recited, the general intercession and prayers of the faithful are offered. This is the time when names of those who died are offered and we unite in prayer for the person whose name is given.

And then again, during the canon, there is a special part of the Eucharitic prayer in which we pray along with the priest: 

Remember, Lord, those who have died and have gone before us marked with the sign of faith, especially those for whom we now pray, N. and N. May these, and all who sleep in Christ, find in your presence light, happiness, and peace through Christ our Lord. Amen.  

Those unbaptized babies, innocent of personal sin, though stained with Original Sin, who die without Baptism go to a place the CC calls Limbo of the Just.  

The existance of Limbo predates the Chruch in the Old Testament. It was well known from revelation that Heaven was closed until the Redeemer came. What we call Limbo of the Just, was often referred to as Abraham's bosom, in St. Luke 16:22.

Doesn't impress me.

But Sacred Scripture does.....

Oh, Jesus, omnipotent Lord over life and death, let me always remember that God created man incorruptible and to the image of His own likeness He made him, but now, since death has come into the world , every living human being must one day give testimony, that "man is dust and to dust he shall return." Wisdom 2:23-24; Gen. 3:19.

"And I heard a voice from Heaven, saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, who die in the Lord. From henchforth now, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors, for their works follow them." Apoc. 14:13.

as i said, i'm able to recite as well as sing along most--if not all of it--in latin*

memento etiam, domine, famulorum famularumque tuaruum qui nos praecesserunt cum signo fídei, et dormiunt in somno pacis.

requiem aeterna dona eis domine, et lux perpetuat luceat eis...

and there's nothing there even vaguely related to personhood prior to viability in the world.  the plea is for those who've been with us on this earth, breathing air, and otherwise among us but with whom we no longer share that status. 

*i even know what the centurian said after pulling over the speeding driver of a chariot on the via appia...."homo (heh), ubi ignus est?"

so why doesn't the church baptize the miscarried from the moment of conception?  what could be more unjust than to have to spend eternity in (i can't hardly type this with a straight face) moses' bosoms?   just how committed is the church to persons from moment of conception to say 3-4 weeks if it doesn't make more of an effort on their behalf?

good job!

Memento etiam, Domine, famulorum famularumque tuaruum N. et N., qui nos praecesserunt cum signo fídei, et dormiunt in somno pacis.

 The Church honors life in all its stages..as the saying goes....from the womb to the tomb.

 In the eyes of the Church life in the womb (undeveloped lungs) is just as precious as life outside the womb (developed lungs) so when a baby dies in utero, and if the parents bring that loss to the attention of the priest, then these prayers will include them.

You said OT but yet you quote from the NT?  Where is limbo in the OT?    Well known?  I've been reading scripture for 40 years and I've never seen Limbo in scripture. 

Abraham's bosom was also called Paradise.......after the cross Paradise was emptied....there is no one in there.

Jesus said to the thief on the cross...."today you will be with me in Paradise."  It's also said in scripture that he came and "set the captives free." 

The redeemer already came Lula....that's why Paul said he was in between wanting to stay to do the work of spreading the good news and going to be with the Lord.  He said:

"absent from the body is present with the Lord." 

there is no limbo, according to scriptures that is. 

either i'm losin my mind or some sorta miracluous transtextantiation has occured right here in river city resulting in moses' bosoms to become abraham's overnight.  

i'm all for a justifiable remedial edit--except when it impacts my reply without some sorta concession of errata.

KFC POSTS:

Hello KFC,

Read it again....I said it is was well known from Scripture that Heaven was closed until Christ came. You agree with that, right?