Of course, I assume opening the border is on the condition 4:Hamas stops the violence.

I agree that the borders should be open again.

But I disagree that Israel has a responsibility to open it. I think such a deal should be connected to a deal that would also open Lebanon's and Syri's borders with Israel.

There are many Lebanese (Christian and Shiite) living in northern Israel that cannot get back into Lebanon to visit friends or relatives. (They are the families of the Lebanese Forces militia that fought against the Arabs in the Lebanese civil war.)

Note that the border to Gaza was open and many Gazans worked in Israel just a few years ago. It was the war the PLO started in the early 2000s that closed the borders first and when that ended, Hamas took over and declared war again. And since 85% of the people in Gaza voted for war, I don't really care much about the problems they have because of it.

 

Israeli troops are now inhibiting even human aid, food and medicines into Gaza. Are the Lebanese starving?

Such negotiations between different countries should be thought separately. I really care much about children in Gaza because they are not responsible.

(JU screwed up the quoting again.)

That's not true.




They would be if they declared themselves independent from Israel (like Gaza did from "Palestine") and would use whatever money they have to kill Israelis and fire rockets into Lebanon.

Incidentally, the people of Gaza are not starving. They had and have a higher standard of living than Egypt and Jordan. There is plenty of food in Gaza which is why Hamas can afford to buy weapons all the time.

This is what a supermarket in Gaza looks like:

http://pajamasmedia.com/files/2008/09/610x.jpg

You really shouldn't believe the nonsense Israel's enemies tell you about Gaza. It's a common strategt: "Oooh look Jews are evil, the people of Gaza are starving" and it flies in the face of those Israelis who are working to keep the eletricity running in Gaza and who are manning the border posts through which hundreds of trucks enter every day, paid for by Israel and the world and certainly not by the lazy people who live of the stuff. And Israelis are doing all that while under continuous rocket fire.

Hamas shoot rockets at incoming trucks and then complain that Gazans are "starving". But it's a lie. They are not starving and never have.




I don't have time to care about all the children in the world. I give money to Darfurians because their children lost their families in the holocaust the Arabs are allowed to perpetrate against Nilo-Saharan tribes in Sudan. The children of Gaza are the responsibility of their parents, who voted for war with Israel; not mine or Israel's.

How can I worry about the child of someone who screams "Death to the Jews" and whose child would be fine if he refrained from acting on his racist ideology? If the people of Gaza want peace, all they have to do is stop attacking Israel. That's all.

And no opening of borders (that are already open for goods) or further concessions by Israel can change the fact.

A video showing the "starvation" in Gaza:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfxZcMGwcxE

You know I am just sick and tired of paying for those luxuries AND being accused of causing starvation!

I hope this gives you a better idea of the "starvation" we are talking about here.

Here is the same as a galerry of pictures:

http://community.livejournal.com/nasha_pravda_il/52041.html

In the mean time, of course, entire towns are being destroyed in Dafur and millions are fleeing and the international community is not wasting a cent on rebuilding Darfur.

 

 

For the sake of comparison, since most people probably find it difficult to imagine what all these places look like, here are two pictures of a supermarket in iraq:

http://web.mac.com/ajbrehm/Home/Blog/Entries/2008/10/9_Erbil_files/IMG_0122.jpg

http://web.mac.com/ajbrehm/Home/Blog/Entries/2008/10/9_Erbil_files/IMG_0125.jpg

 

An excellent German article on the situation:

http://www.n-tv.de/1113028.html

I quote from the conclusion and translate:

Warum sollte der europäische Steuerzahler für die Moscheen aufkommen, in deren Kellern nachweislich Waffen und Sprengstoff gelagert waren. Und welchen Sinn macht es jetzt Gelder in den Wiederaufbau zu investierten, während die Hamas oder von ihr geduldete Organisation weiterhin Israel mit Raketen beschießen, während die Israelis als Reaktion darauf mit harten Schlägen drohen.

Noch geht der Krieg also weiter. Nicht einmal ein Waffenstillstand konnte bislang ausgehandelt werden. Da muss man sich fragen, welchen Teufel die halbe Welt reitet, mitten in einem noch nicht beendeten Krieg mal wieder Milliardensummen zu verpulvern, während es doch genügend andere von Krieg und Bürgerkrieg verwüstete Landstriche gibt, in denen diese Gelder dringender benötigt werden, zum Beispiel in Darfur, Sri Lanka, Georgien oder Irak.

"Why should the European tax payer pay for the very mosques in the cellars of which were stored weapons and explosives, as was proven. And what is the idea behind sending money into a rebuilding while Hamas and organisations allied with Hamas still fire rockets at Israel while the Israelis react by threatening harsh strikes.

The war still continues. Not even a cease-fire could be obtained so far. One has to wonder which devil is riding half the world [German expression] to pour billions into a war that hasn't ended yet while at the same time there are enough other territories destroyed by war and civil war, in which those monies are needed much more, for example in Darfur, Sri Lanka, Georgia, or Iraq."

 

Is it because I am not a Jewish but a Japanese that I care about the children in Gaza as well as in Darfur (I have actually been following the news on Darfur for several years, longer than on Gaza)?

I think you really know the pictures and footages you showed to indicate Gaza is thriving are old ones. Now they are under economic blockade.

http://rabbibrant.com/2009/02/04/one-gaza-testimonial/

And you said the children of Gaza were the responsibility of their parents who voted for Hamas. But you have showed me many footages and articles that indicated Hamas threatend their people and ever killed them, haven't you? Do you think they could vote against Hamas in such situation? 

Yes, obviously it is because you are not Jewish. Everybody knows that Jews are evil. It has probably nothing to do with the fact that those people want to kill me. I just hate them, right?

I have never seen people really care for Darfur. There were lots of protests against Israel ("Death to the Jews!") which I guess are counted as "support for the children of Gaza" (who presumably want to live in a war zone, if you can believe the protesters who demand more war), but not very many against the Sudanese government who kill one hundred times as many people in Darfur without being threatened or attacked by them at all.

In fact, I don't remember you writing a blog entry about Darfur or comment in any of those that I wrote about the region.

I think you care about the children in Gaza because the propaganda shown on television makes you care.

 

The pictures were from January, some of them. Others were from last year. All of them were from the time of the "blockade".

 

If all of them did, they could. But perhaps you are not aware of the fact that the other big party, the PLO, also advocates war (just at the moment they don't). All the previous wars were fought by the PLO, not Hamas. And 90% of the "Palestinian people" always vote for one of the two war parties.

The fact that they are frightened to speak up is not my responsibility or Israel's. But the Gazans have no right to export their fear into neighbouring countries. Whatever Hamas does to them, it does not justify attacks and it does not create a responsibility for Israe.

The children are the responsibility of their parents. And 90% of their parents keep voting for war. If you want to help their children, make sure they stop doing that.

 

According to the letter her mother _refused_ to allow her brother to get medical help in Israel.

And they have 5 to 10 minutes warning before the rockets hit? Israelis have 15 seconds.

I have read similar letters from Germans at the end of World War II.

At the end.

These are the sort of things they should have realised when they started the war, NOT when it starts going badly for them.

Either way, her account stands in stark contrast to the pictures I have seen. And those pictures were from _January_. It also contradicts what I know about the number of trucks crossing the border into Gaza daily. I wonder what happens to all the food delivered from Israel and available in the stores on its way to that family? Any ideas?

 

Here we go: from the comments section, the answer:

The U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees said Friday it has halted all aid shipments into the Gaza Strip due to interference by the ruling Hamas militant group.

The U.N. Relief and Works agency said it made the decision after Hamas personnel intercepted an aid shipment for the second time this week.

In a statement, UNRWA said 10 truckloads of flour and rice that had been delivered into Gaza on Thursday were taken away by trucks affiliated with the Hamas-run Ministry of Social Affairs. Earlier this week, Hamas police took thousands of blankets and food parcels meant for needy residents.

UNRWA said the suspension would remain in effect until the aid is returned and the agency receives credible assurances from the Hamas government that such thefts will end. There was no immediate reaction from Hamas.

So what will we do about that? "Open the borders"? Apparently the borders are open and UNRWA complain about aid shipments being attacked after crossing the border. What can Israel do to stop Hamas from attacking aid shipments? Attack Hamas?

I have no doubt that the girl's account is correct. But I also have no doubt that the situation has a lot to do with the girl's family not accepting Israeli help and Hamas attacking aid shipments. There is nothing Israel can do about that except offer help (and see it refused) and attack Hamas (and get condemned for the attack).

Perhaps Hamas doesn't allow everyone to buy food?

So what do you think should Israel do? The borders are open for goods, hence UNRWA's aid shipments go through. The aid seems to vanish on the other side of the border.

But perhaps, if we send more money and aid, and Hamas can steal more, the war will end and the children will be helped, right?

 

 

I will believe that there is good will on both sides once the Arabs build a field hospital in Israel to help the victims of attacks from Gaza.

They have enough money. They would get permission to build a hospital in Israel. They have doctors and medical equipment.

The only thing that stops them from doing it is their inability to take responsibility for their actions and their unwillingness to help Jews.

But I dream.

I am still waiting for the international community to come together and discuss how much money to give to Israel to rebuild the north after the Lebanon war of 2006.

 

Israel's entry to this years' Eurovision:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLuY6kFwAws

The artists are a Jew and (Christian) Arab. The song is sung in Hebrew, Arabic, and English.

 

Previous entries:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTi2KwixNjg

1979, in Hebrew: "Hallelu yah la 3olam" = "Praise G-d to the world"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdMdZrgBfo8

1983, in Hebrew: "Ani od hai, 3am Yisrael hai, ani sho3el vemitpallel..." = "I am still alive, the people of Israel are still alive, I ask and I pray..."

The artist is a Yemenite Jew and as the stereotype goes her Hebrew pronunciation is perfect. The Jewish artist of the first song is also a Yemenite Jew. In fact most decent musicians in Israel are either of Yemenite or Sephardi (Spanish/Turkish) descent.)

(This song is also played on the radio whenever Israel survives a war, much to the anger of Arabs everywhere.)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei4zlCbquoY

2007, in Hebrew, English, and French: "Push the button"

 

The Arabs usually use the Eurovision song contest to show their willingness to live together in peace with Israel. Lebanon usually enters the contest and then withdraw every time Israel also enters. And Jordanian television just stops transmitting in Jordan when Israel wins or makes second place.

 

 

I think Israel also deserves credit for being the only country in the middle east that kept the total number of casualties below 20,000. For some reason that never comes up in discussions of how evil Israel is.

 

Algerian Civil War (1991-2002):

- Algerian government vs Islamists

- 150,000-200,00 dead

 

Lebanese Civil War (1975-1990):

- Arab national socialists, Syria, and PLO vs Lebanese Catholics and (for some time) Israel

- 130,000-250,000 dead (Israel was involved for five years)

 

Black September in Jordan (1970):

- Jordan vs PLO and Syria

- 200-25,000 dead (in one month, mostly PLO fighters)

 

Iraq vs Kurds and Iraq vs Shiites (1980-2003):

- Iraqi Baath government vs Kurds and Iraqi Shiites

- some 400,000 dead (and this does not include the war against Iran at the same time)

 

Sudanece Civil War and Darfur conflict (1983-2005, Darfur conflict ongoing)

- Arab Sudanese government and Arab militias vs Nilo-Saharan tribes

- some 2.5 million dead (mostly Nilo-Saharan civilians)

 

Syria vs Syrian Kurds (since 1957)

- Arab Syrian government vs Syrian Kurds

- nobody knows

 

Somalian Civil War (since 1991)

- Somali government vs Islamists vs Somaliland government (in the north)

- 300,000-400,000 dead

 

I wonder why the world is so worried about 1300 victims in one of those countries. It seems that everyone is upset when Arabs attack, and instead of killing hundreds of thousands of people lose a few thousand instead. But that's not it either, because when Jordan killed 20,000 "Palestinians", nobody was worried.

And when will the world stop the Arabs?

 

 

When?

1) The world doesn't need oil. OR

2) The Arab oil runs out. OR

3) Alternative sources of power are found.

AND provided

4) The "Guest Workers" haven't overrun the countries that "hosted" them...or the "hosts" have learned not to fear them.

When will ANYONE learn "There's no such thing as free lunch."?

When will anyone learn the price of the addiction to oil and those who own it?

Well, yes, that's what makes Arab imperialism survive.

But why the heck is there so much official support for them? If the west simply IGNORED Arab cries for punshing Israel, they would probably shut up at some point. The Arab rulers need western support more than we need "their" oil, if only to protect themselves from their fanatical subjects who are in many cases worse than their fanatical governments.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly in the Arab world...

Good: Morocco, Jordan, Lebanon (the actual government), possibly Mauritania, Egypt (with reservations), Somaliland (unrecognised)

Bad: Algeria, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq (except Kurdistan), Invaderland/"Palestine", Oman, Yemen

Ugly: Sudan, Libya, possibly Mauritania, Gaza (Hamas), Lebanon (Hizbullah), Qatar, Somalia

"Good" are those we want to keep, for our benefit and the benefit of their subjects.

"Bad" are those we want to keep because they are (now) better than their subjects and better than the most likely alternatives.

"Ugly" are those that are much worse than their subjects and the likely alternatives.

 

Don't forget that the Arab fascists have very vocal allies in the west, allies who are not worried about oil (or even understand why it might be important).

People who protest on the streets and scream "Death to the Jews" are not on the Arab side because they need oil. They will support the Arab fascists like the KKK supported the German fascists.

I am convinced that the US and Europe would have excellent ties to Saudi Arabia and the other oil-producing Arab countries even without propping up Hamas every few years. The days of Arab unity are over. Saudi Arabia and the other "moderate" Arab countries fear Iran a lot more than they hate Israel or Jews. Heck, Bahrain even made one of their 35 Jews a diplomat last year. The Arab dictators are not necessarily anti-Semites any more, but their subjects mostly are.

 

fussyvet, so you're saying that GAZA is bad because of Israel closing borders down and Israel just not trading with Gaza?  And that person who made the comment that we should nuke them all and let G-D sort it out.  That is such a typical comment from a so uninformed lepton from the States.  Why doesn't someone nuke the U.S and let G-D sort it out?

You know what frustrates me is when people make comments based on biased media information.  After living over there for several years I will say that things drastically got worse when Hamas got in power.  The PA wasn't always bad and in fact when Gaza was handed over to the PA it was some very good land!

The PA government is extremely greedy hence why Fatah was booted out of Gaza.  If you don't believe me just look up Suha Arafat.  That's Yasser Arafat's wife for those who are uninformed.  She is in the top 20 wealthiest women.  I wonder how she got there. HMMMMM.

I don't think that the President of the PA got paid that much and the fact that she came from middle class as well doesn't well quite add up. HMmmm

Fussyvet:  a hypothetical situation: if the situation was changed to that of Canada and the U.S. how would you respond?  You knowing that Canada hates the U.S. and wants the U.S completely eliminated.

In closing, WHY DOESN"T the other Arab countries step in and help (besides with suppling arms)? Why doesn't Iran ever help? Why doesn't Syria/Lebanon help?  Why does EVERY Neonate insist that Israel be the sole helper of the PA?  If Canada was constantly mooching off the U.S I HIGHLY doubt if many people from the States would put up with!

I have friends on both sides of the border.  The food over there is amazingly good.

I know about what Arafat did.

I wrote an English article on Darfur and have been writing Japanese ones, much more than those on Gaza (anyway, it does not matter now).

Leauki, you always bring up anti-Semitism, but we Japanese live in the area where there are nothing to do with anti-Semitism while we have other discrimination issues which are more common. Actually, on International pages of Japanese newspaper, I read as many articles on Palestinian issue as on Darfur, Pakistan, Afghanistan and others. It is not because of anti-Semitism or the number of casualities. Just because it is something to be picked up.

Palestinian issues came from only "anti-Semitism"? I understand there is anti-semitism in the world. But as for Israeli matters, it seems they exploit anti-Semitism as a shield to protest the world's criticism.

Yes.

Anti-Semitism was the reason why Arab nationalists started attacking Jews (and hatred for other minorities was the reason to attack and murder Kurds, Dinkas, Berbers, Fur, Massalith, Assyrians and all those other peoples).

If the attacks on Jews stopped, there would be no "Palestinian issues". There would simply be two countries, Israel and Invaderland (or whatever they want to kill it, I always thought that "invaders" is a stupid name for a people).

Anti-Semitism drove the German Nazis as well as the Arab Nazis.

And if you think this is not about anti-Semitism, just look at what Hamas have to say about Jews.

 

As long as the world's "criticism" remains anti-Semitic, that shield is a good defence.

Once the world criticises Israel for its actions rather than its Jewishness, we can talk about the shield. I would assume that as long as Israel is consistently the only subject discussed by the UN's "human rights" councils, we are facing anti-Semitism, because there are FAR more urgent issues where 100 times as many people are killed for reasons other than self defence against their attacks.

If it weren't for anti-Semitism, Israel wouldn't even be on anybody's radar.

The Sudanese killed more than two million people but there was no conference where the world decided to give 3 billion dollars to Sudan's enemies.

Do you know that the PLO and Hamas call the Bedouins and Druze who fight for Israel "traitors"? If this wasn't about anti-Semitism, why on earth would Arabs fighting on Israel's side be traitors? If this was not about the Jews being Jews, why would it be treason to fight with them for the country? Who would they be betraying?

 

No, it isn't something to be picked up. It's a non-issue. Looking at the region and picking on the one country that keeps violence down to low levels doesn't make sense, unless you have another problem with that country.

If you are worried about "Palestinian" children, why not write articles about Lebanon and Jordan, where there is a lot more violence against "Palestinians" than in Israel including the West-Bank and Gaza?

Israel has done a lot more to help "Palestinians" than to harm them. Israel sheltered them from Jordan (and I think she shouldn't have). Israel provides medical care (to people who want to destroy her). And it is _Israel_ who gave the "Palestinians" their first government. Before the Palestinian Authority, the West-Bank and Gaza were either part of Egypt and Jordan (who didn't give them independence and didn't want to) and Israel (who wanted them to be independent since 1949).

Picking on Israel is just a way to keep the "Palestinians" in limbo. They'll never have their own country unless Israel gives it to them, because nobody else will. If Israel loses a war, the "Palestinians" have no chance to be independent ever.

It is just coincidence that the world always watches the Jews?

 

If you would look into the matter you would see that Israel's actions are a reaction to what the PA is doing. PA is constantly antagonising Israel.  I doubt that the U.S. would wait for multiple missles to be fired in their land by Canada which Israel does.  Why does the news media not report that Hamas shots missles constantly into Israel even after this last invasion and during this 'truce' guess what Hamas is firing missles into Israel. 

You should read about the nice friendly peaceful group of Hamas.  I've talked to people in the Hamas government and they said and I quote 'We will not have peace until there is no Israel.'  Fussyvet, you can try say that they play the antisemite card, but when you have a group of people saying there will be no peace until your gone.  I think the problem is in the ideology.

Speaking of Darfur.  I've met and spoken to a lot of Sudanese refugees in my time over there.  I would hear stories of the journey to a country that would allow them to enter.  When approaching the Egyptian border the Egyptian military opened fired and slaughter a lot of refugees.  Did you hear that on the news of course not.  What you hear on the news is that Israel rejects entrance of Darfur refugees.

It was insightful to be able to talk to them.  Most of the refugees spoke arabic it made no sense why no arab country would take them.  They would tell me that their whole village would be slaughter.  It didn't matter any more if they were muslim.  It was funny because they told me there were a lot of foreigns helping this one group to cause so much chaos.  You know where they said these foreigners were from?  They said some from Egypt, some Syria, but mostly from Iran.  Hmmm interesting.....

> When approaching the Egyptian border the Egyptian military opened fired and slaughter a lot of refugees.  Did you hear that on the news of course not.

 

You are wrong. I know the case that the Darfur refugees were shot by Egypt. Both you don't need to bring Darfur up to me to compare with Palestine. I have read much more papers on that than on the Palestinian issue.

Leauki, do I have to write articles every time when I am concerned about a certain issue, which can be an only ruler to measure how much concerns? There are many other issues I am concerned about even if I have written articles in my English blog.

Anyway, so much for this time.

You don't understand my concern.

Jews are attacked, people die, the war continues BECAUSE people, especially the media, create the impression as if Israel was the most evil country that has ever existed, when in reality it is among the least violent places in the middle east.

Resources that should be invested to help people, especially in the Sudan and elsewhere in Africa, are instead spent to fight Israel and to rebuild Gaza and such things.

Even if you write about "Palestine" and Darfur, you are still putting the two in the same category, as if 100,000 innocent Africans are the same as a few hundred terrorists and their human shields. They are not.

And the war against Israel WILL NOT END until the terrorists lost their support worldwide.

You can be sure that Israel won't stop fighting until the last Jew is dead. But may the terrorists can be beaten before that time.