Obama sends $1 Billion to Gaza

Maybe Africans should kill more people so that we start giving THEM some money?

Maybe they should start terrorizing us here. Or start working on enriching uranium.

We are not exactly sending a strong message by giving money to thugs while letting innocents die.

Edit: Well, we ARE sending a strong message, but is it a good message?

And you actually think that money will find it's way into Gaza? Much aid is always promised whenever an area of the globe is decimated in one form or another, but as soon as the cameras turn off it seems to peter out mighty quick. After the tsunami that killed a couple hundred thousand in Asia billions in aid was promised, but it was just that, promises. It didn't actually materialize.

Don't worry Leauki, the U.S has provided more than 100 billion dollars in aid to Israel over the years (in addition to all kinds of creative arms deals) so to say that Obama thinks that killing Jews is important is a lie, plain and simple.

Now, if Obama were to suddenly cut off all aid, both military and economic to Israel, THEN you might be able to use that as justification for your statement!

Rather what I see him doing is trying to keep a dialogue with both sides.

The U.S is currently in the position of having to choose between Saudi or Israel as an ally. There was a very interesting speech from a Saudi Prince not that long ago that basically laid it out; if the U.S continues to give a carte blanche to every single Israeli military operation, Saudi will have no choice but to cut it's ties with the U.S. Now, from the U.S perspective they're heavily invested in both nations, on several levels.

Obama doesn't want to lose either side, so he's trying to court both. Personally, I don't know how well that's going to turn out but it's a hell of a pickle no matter which way you cut it!

I am actually convinced that either the PLO or Hamas will keep the money. If it arrives in Gaza at all, it will just make it possible for Hamas to spend more of their own money on weapons since they don't have a need to spend it on "their" people.

I'm not saying he finds it important, I am saying that it seems more important to him then saving hungry Africans.

I agree.

The Saudis don't have an alternative. They don't make their own weapons and are heavily invested in equipment they have no control over. There is no way the US could lose Saudi Arabia as an ally. Saudi Arabia will fall without US help.

The Saudis could simply support Israel openly and take the heat. If more Arab countries would join in, the conflict would be over soon.

I think the more important issue here is what this just announced to the world at large.

We are now doing business with terrorists instead of killing them.

Obama sucks.

This is the first I'm hearing about it. I'd have thought the MSM would be all over something like this. But it falls in line with what is going on in the US (throwing good money after bad). anything that is rebuilt in Gaza will be destroyed again when Hamas resumes firing rockets. Makes more sense to put the money in a barrel, set it on fire, and let the Palestinians huddle around it to keep warm.

Hmm.

First formal interview - Al Arabiya.

$1Bil to - Hamas.

And who, again, elected this guy?

Of which country is it, again, that he is Presdent?

Bush and Rice have funneled money into the region as well, but never in such a large amount. The ironic part is that 75% of the American Jewish community voted for Obama.

Seems they are not happy unless they are suffering. Well you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

As far as I know he's not reducing aid to Israel which has added up to far more over the years. By your argument we should take the aid we give Israel and give it to Africa. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

My point is not that we should stop aid to Israel. My point is that to complain of spending a relative pittance for the humanitarian purpose of aiding in the rebuilding of a war torn area compared to the aid we give Israel each and every year is disingenuous.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_aid_to_Israel.gif.

By my argument, really?

I don't think you understood the point.

The terrorists use the money to keep a war going. If THAT money was given to Africa instead, the war would end.

Israel uses the money to keep another Shoah from happening (and if you think that that is not the terrorists' goal you should read their charter and read more about where the PLO come from, ideologically).

I admire your trust that the terrorists will use the money to rebuild a war-torn area. They never did that in the past. I expect them to use the money (or any monies freed by it) to buy weapons to keep the war going.

That's probably fine for you, since you haven't lived in a bunker for seven years. That little detail that is usually forgotten when people think "humanitarian aid". There is nothing, but absolutely nothing, "humanitarian" about giving money to people who openly say that they will use it to fight the Jews AND do exactly that.

My point is not about who gets how much, but about what the money is spent on. If Israel were to use US aid to fire rockets at, say, Jordanian hospitals for no apparent reason (for example, if those hospitals represented no danger to anyone), I would be opposed to that aid too.

Your point about the US giving more to Israel than to Hamas and the PLO is about as useful as the fact that the US spend more on hospitals than on a mafiosi weapons fund to murder people in Chiacago.

Yes.

The next time Hamas attack a wedding celebration because it plays music and kill the groom, the bullets will likely have been paid for by the US. Good work.

And the statement that it is for rebuilding is bogus. Hamas have never rebuilt anything. It was Israel and the PLO who built up Gaza, Hamas merely destroyed infrastructure.

It's not like the world is running out of places that have to be rebuild and the US are thefore forced to "rebuild" the people who want to continue attacking others.

Jews are stubborn. It takes them generations to change. Three generations ago, the Democrats were the party of immigrants (in the north) and the Republicans were the party of WASPs.

It's the social climate over in the evil capitalist US. American Jews are not Jews in the sense in which European or middle-eastern Jews are Jews. American Jews are not constantly under attack and don't have to hide. And in America, I am sure, a Jew can open a Jewish deli, be visibly Jewish, and not have his shop burned down over night.

If in the US the police had to guard every single synagogue like in Germany, you bet American Jews would vote more right-wing!

I say a pox on both your houses, I'd just as soon nuke the entire region, Israel included and let god sort out precisely who is a "terrorist" and who isn't. Why the hell should the US continually be dragged into Israel's pissant problems. I'm tired of listening to all the complaining. I think Israel should either strap on a pair of balls and take care of their own problems for a change or STFU. Israel has nukes, let them use them.

Stop making up what my argument is.

Spending money on humanitarian things in Israel makes sense only when Israel and the Jews survive for another few years.

I have never ever argued that Israel shouldn't defend herself. I do, however, believe that it would be cheaper for everyone if people stopped giving money to the terrorists so that the war would end.

Nice one, Mumble. A new take at the "final solution", I see. An interesting take, replacing a conflict that has caused just a few thousand victims over 60 years with a solution that will kill 10 million people, Jews and Arabs.

I guess that's a third take next to "live in peace together" and "kill all the Jews". Personally, I much prefer the first two. Really.

(May I read the word "terrorist" in quotes as if you are implying that a Jew is the same as a terrorist and that it is really just a matter of semantics?)

Because, my friend, if you don't stop these things when they happen to the Jews, they will start happening to other people.

But I am simply sick of hearing about it. A pox on both your houses means precisely that. You kill them or they kill you, frankly I no longer care which way you work it out, but you're deluded if you think living in peace is an option. Everything you do makes them hate you more and vice versa.

Sorry about that. Why did you come to read an article I wrote about it?

I know. You are probably right. For some reason it works in America, but nowhere else.

That is wrong.

Hatred is irrational, it is not caused by real events. When you read terrorist propaganda, you will notce that the reasons they give for hating Jews (to potential recruits) is nothing that really happened. They tell their western supporters about Jews attacking Arabs, of course (and they don't mention under what circumstances, for example the sentence "they attacked Gaza" is rarely preceded by "after we fired rockets at them for three years"), but what they tell recruits always belongs into one of these three categories:

1. Fantasies about the middle east, including stories that Tel Aviv (founded in 1909 on desert land bought from Bedouins) was once a "Palestinian" city named "Tel Raba" and has to be taken back from the Jews who stole it (and, presumably, from the Bedouins who owned the land and also live there).

2. Stories about Jews causing tsunamis and other bad things. This is where Hitler's "Mein Kampf" and the Russian "Protocols" come in as bestsellers in the Arab world.

3. Stories about G-d condemning Jews and allowing anyone who murders a Jew to go to heaven.

Those three are the "arguments" the terrorists have against the Jews. Can you tell me which of those have anything to do with what Jews actually did?

Or perhaps that is your point. They really do hate Jews for EVERYTHING they do, or rather ANYTHING.

In that case there will never be peace.

But I am now betting on the other non-Arab peoples. The Internet gave them a voice. Once the world remembers them and the "Arab League" is replaced by countries that respect the non-Arab peoples living in their borders, the conflict between Israel and the terrorists will become a minor issue.

I am convinced (and have seen evidence) that the Kurds, the Assyrians, the Nilo-Saharan peoples (Massalith, Fur, Nubians, Dinka etc.), and the Imazighen (Berbers) are perfectly willing to live in peace with Jews and each other. It's the Arabs we have to convince, and once they lose their power and the world's recognition of their empire, they might see their own insignificance and join the other peoples.

Or, alternatively: "But I am simply sick of hearing about it all." Which is it?

Don't change the subject. I was wondering why you participate in a discussion when you are "sick of hearing" about the subject. The question was NOT about your disagreement with my opinion and I won't let you pretend that it was.

Don't get your panties in a bunch, it leads to uncomfortable chafing.

And you really think this was about your disagreement with my politics? I'm not even sure what your position actually is, as you haven't explained it.

What's the point?

Can you imagine just how many pounds of C4 you could buy with $1 billion?

1. If you give $1 Billion to Hamas as cold (Chinese) cash, Hamas will give very little of it to the citizens of Gaza. We all know where the money will go, and for which purpose.

2. If Building materials made in Israel are supplied, a different outcome is possible.

3. Should the US be doing business with Hamas: Morally, no. Realpolitik: Is there a choice?

4. Should the aid be conditional: Only if Hamas stops the violence, and pledges peace, AND returns Gideon Shalit? Yes.

5. Should the prisoners not convicted of crimes involving murder be released to Gaza? Yes. Those convicted of "blood crimes" should not. Those released if rentering Israel resume their sentences or, if armed, executed immediately.

6. The use of nuclear weapons is, perhaps, the most ridiculous proposition I've ever heard.

7. While I understand your exasperation with the situation, Mumblefutz, Leauki, et. al. Please remember that the Israelis and some, if not many of the Gazans are equally sick of it all. More violence will only spawn even more. If that is Hamas' goal, they must be dealt with differently and by the International Community. By that I mean allow the peaceful Gazans to exit if they pledge to accept peace with Israel and then reduce Gaza and those who refuse peace.

8. The Israelis do not lack the will or "the balls" to solve the problem, Mumblefutz. If you doubt that, visit Israel and mention it to a paratrooper. Have your Medical insurance paid up and your affairs in order first, just in case.

9. Israel will have to open border crossings of Gaza and Hamas will have to recognize Israel, each of which has been demanded by one to the other.

I read Fatah and Hamas will be reconciled mediated by Egypt. I wonder what will happen the next.

The difference is that Israel used to keep the border open before Hamas took over Gaza violently and declared war.

Incidentally, WHY exactly would Israel have to open the border crossings? There is no law that says that states must have open borders, especially not when they are at war at that border.