Wisefawn's Proof Of Janky Election

I thought all the whackos were on DU.org. Seems I was wrong.  Kerry lost by 3.5 million votes.  he lost ohio by almost 200k.  And ohio uses punch cards, not electronic voting machines.

It is really sad when there is no question of the victor, as there was in the days after 2000, that the losers cannot accept they are in the minority.  Sad and pathetic.

Wisefawn's Proof Of Janky Election By: LeapingLizard Posted: Saturday, November 06, 2004 on On A Warm Rock Message Board: Politics Thank you wisefawn. Sadly, I haven't had the time to put together the blog that suggests, if not proves, in my book, that elections hardly mean a thing anymore. A deal between the Bush Dynasty and the makers of so many of the electronic voting machines has been created. The same company that makes the voting machines will be installing a wave of ATM machines in Iraq. Big surprise. It figures. Like everything else the Bush Dynasty does, it's all about the power and money. Yuck.

Just another left-wing wacko conspiracy theory!

Aa much as I would like to hope the election was rigged, kind of.... American citizens voted for Bush. It's as simple as that.

Little green conservatives from mars did it. Hey, it's just as good as this fantasy! lol

Citizen Dr. Guy - 11/6/2004 11:15:16 AM I thought all the whackos were on DU.org. Seems I was wrong. Kerry lost by 3.5 million votes. he lost ohio by almost 200k. And ohio uses punch cards, not electronic voting machines. It is really sad when there is no question of the victor, as there was in the days after 2000, that the losers cannot accept they are in the minority. Sad and pathetic.

Shows you don't pay attention to the news. There was a big stink in this area because the designer of the electronic voting machines, a resident of Ohio who had just won the contract to provide machines for that state, guarenteed a Bush victory in Ohio. I heard a report that Ohio actually uses 5 different methods of counting votes.

Thank you, it's sweet of you to put this up! I have only begun posting what is happening in Ohio.

I'm guessing that if the electonic voting machines that are counting our votes, were owned and run by Kerry supporters and they showed Kerry winning by a landslide, there would be many a conservative voice raised loudly. And I'm wondering why so many are against the vote being counted?

Muggaz- It so not as easy as that.

Shows you don't pay attention to the news. There was a big stink in this area because the designer of the electronic voting machines, a resident of Ohio who had just won the contract to provide machines for that state, guarenteed a Bush victory in Ohio. I heard a report that Ohio actually uses 5 different methods of counting votes.

I do pay attention to the news. Even CBS, who no one can deny is very left wing. Ohio uses many methods, but the inventor sold his machine out of state. Seems you dont pick up facts, just conspiracy theories. And that is what is sad and pathetic. You cant accept your ideas lost, and will continue to deny them even tho the vote, even to Kerry, was clear.

for those of us who accepted Clinton as President, but did not like him, we never cried fowl just because he never won 50% of the vote. We did criticize him, and worked to defeat him, but he was our president.

If GWB is not your president, there are flights leaving the country every day. And if that is too pricey for you, you can drive north or south. But from what I hear, they dont want you either. Even they understand who won, and dont want malcontents coming to their countries either.

Wisefawn - Bush had higher tournouts and advantages in most counties throughoout the United States. You are grasping at straws. It just looks so...pathetic.

What's annoying is that you make these accusations, with no proof, that are very difficult to disprove.  Wisefawn, I really thinik you should leave JU and become a permanent resident of Democratic Underground.  I won't shut down the blogs of lunatics but I will prevent them from being syndicated across JU. I'm not going to let the site become a haven for left wing OR right wing lunacy.

Part of the reason I dont read WF or MC blogs is their extreme views.  While WC is conservative, it is never wise to immerse yourself in one idealogy.  For then you only hear what you want, not what you need.  I have learned a lot from Reading Stevendedalus, Texas Wahine, and even Tbone.  They are passionate in their views, but at least they are very reasonable and open to discuss discenting opinions.  Which sometimes makes me modify mine, and sometimes makes me realize I am right in my view.

I dont agree with all of the conservatives on this site, not even Draginols.  but I like to read them and then compare them to mine, and see if I am wrong.  Since I am human, and an old geezer!, I dont change often, but I do sometimes.  And I think that makes my own convictions even stronger.

Just to clarify, I don't think that if there had been no electronic voting machines that Kerry would have won. I am not saying the only reason the Bush Dynasty won is because of electronic voting machines. It's just fishy...all around. Especially since the company that makes the machines now has deals in Iraq. I don't like it. It stinks.

Dr.Guy

If GWB is not your president, there are flights leaving the country every day

I'm so sick of hearing this...ahhh. I'm equally as sick of hearing people say they are going to Canada as I am of hearing Good Riddance and the such. I know it's not just you, either. I'm not trying to make a personal attack. I'm just sick of it. The only way to make this country better is to do it together.

When people say they want to move to Canada, they are usually just expressing disatisfaction with this country. And that's ok! Hopefully it stays that way for the next four years. That's a joke.

Draginol

Wisefawn, I really thinik you should leave JU and become a permanent resident of Democratic Underground.

That's just mean. I hope you said it with a sense of humor.

zobelisk

Little green conservatives from mars did it. Hey, it's just as good as this fantasy!

I guess I just don't trust the government that much. Too much trust in the government can be dangerous.

Dr.Guy

it is never wise to immerse yourself in one idealogy. For then you only hear what you want, not what you need.

Agreed. We all need to stay open.

ll

No, I meant what I said. And I'll go one step further, I've been on-line for years and I can tell you for a fact that if Wisefawn weren't female, she would not get the free pass on some of the nutty things she says.

I don't want JU to be home to political extremists on either the left or right. We kicked out the right wing crazies like "Sir Peter" out right. And I would never take away Wise Fawn's blog as I agree with her right to post what she sees.

But I have the right to decide what I promote. I don't have to promote Wisefawn's left wing crazy stuff across the Internet. So she can write whatever she want on her blog and it would be just like if she had a blog anywhere else. What makes JoeUser unusual is that because of the syndication features (THAT NO OTHER BLOG SITE HAS), your article will tended to be read. I was on Google the other day and had typed in Voter suppression or something like that and one of Wisefawn's blogs came up. If she didn't delete all her blogs regularly, she'd probably be getting hundreds of new readers a day just from search engines. That's the power of JU syndication. But it's not a right, it's a priviledge. We don't have to syndicate things.

I don't want people to start thinking JU is some Democratic Underground Lite just like I don't want people to think of it as some right wing crazy place either.

for those of us who accepted Clinton as President, but did not like him, we never cried fowl just because he never won 50% of the vote. We did criticize him, and worked to defeat him, but he was our president. If GWB is not your president, there are flights leaving the country every day. And if that is too pricey for you, you can drive north or south. But from what I hear, they dont want you either. Even they understand who won, and dont want malcontents coming to their countries either.

Baloney, the right piled on Clinton from day one of his presidency. They could not accept that the coattails of Reagan did not extend to '92. They had a "independent" special prosecutor who went after Clinton harder than the state of Florida went after Ted Bundy. How many other civil cases involving one person against one person have gone to a grand jury?

Your attitude of if you don't love Republicans then you don't love America, smacks of Nixonism at its worst. The last time I was out of my country I was serving in its armed forces. Once again it seems that Bush is relying on his state campaign chairman to secure a close election for him. Once might be an anomoly, twice is a pattern.

I've been on-line for years and I can tell you for a fact that if Wisefawn weren't female, she would not get the free pass on some of the nutty things she says.

??

Some people do not like dissenting views on their opinions...
Take me for example I roll with the punches and kick back with a view of my own!!
Check out my latest post to get a preview of my Mental Warfare Hypothesis and Layout!!

Nothing is true, everything is permitted!!

SO, PARTY ON DOWN!!

Plinko!!

the designer of the electronic voting machines, a resident of Ohio who had just won the contract to provide machines for that state, guarenteed a Bush victory in Ohio

Actually, that was the owner of the company that manufactures the most popular e-voting machine (Diebold Systems). And while I agree that e-voting machines are a needless security risk, they were not at issue in Ohio, because:

When [Ohio] Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell halted the purchase of new electronic voting machines on July 16 after two investigations identified 57 potential software and hardware security threats, North Canton, Ohio’s Diebold Electronic Systems’ dream of a $100 million contract with the state disappeared.

(from The Free Press, Ohio Department, 3 Sept 2004.)

Personally I hope that Diebold and its owner shrivel up and die (boldly?), but to imply (or state outright) that Diebold had a hand in some undefined shenanigans in votecounting is to make a charge that is completely unsubstantiatable.

Reply #10 By: LeapingLizard - 11/6/2004 1:48:50 PM Draginol Wisefawn, I really thinik you should leave JU and become a permanent resident of Democratic Underground. That's just mean. I hope you said it with a sense of humor.

And why should he? It's HIS site, HE pays for it we don't. And in this case I support "my way or the highway"! Anyone not liking it can go start their own site.

Reply #12 By: whoman69 - 11/6/2004 2:33:47 PM for those of us who accepted Clinton as President, but did not like him, we never cried fowl just because he never won 50% of the vote. We did criticize him, and worked to defeat him, but he was our president. If GWB is not your president, there are flights leaving the country every day. And if that is too pricey for you, you can drive north or south. But from what I hear, they dont want you either. Even they understand who won, and dont want malcontents coming to their countries either. Baloney, the right piled on Clinton from day one of his presidency. They could not accept that the coattails of Reagan did not extend to '92. They had a "independent" special prosecutor who went after Clinton harder than the state of Florida went after Ted Bundy. How many other civil cases involving one person against one person have gone to a grand jury? Your attitude of if you don't love Republicans then you don't love America, smacks of Nixonism at its worst. The last time I was out of my country I was serving in its armed forces. Once again it seems that Bush is relying on his state campaign chairman to secure a close election for him. Once might be an anomoly, twice is a pattern

Are you seeing conspiracies under every bush now?

Reply #5 By: whoman69 - 11/6/2004 12:42:21 PM Citizen Dr. Guy - 11/6/2004 11:15:16 AM I thought all the whackos were on DU.org. Seems I was wrong. Kerry lost by 3.5 million votes. he lost ohio by almost 200k. And ohio uses punch cards, not electronic voting machines. It is really sad when there is no question of the victor, as there was in the days after 2000, that the losers cannot accept they are in the minority. Sad and pathetic. Shows you don't pay attention to the news. There was a big stink in this area because the designer of the electronic voting machines, a resident of Ohio who had just won the contract to provide machines for that state, guarenteed a Bush victory in Ohio. I heard a report that Ohio actually uses 5 different methods of counting votes.

Shows that YOU don't pay attention.

Actually, that was the owner of the company that manufactures the most popular e-voting machine (Diebold Systems). And while I agree that e-voting machines are a needless security risk, they were not at issue in Ohio, because: When [Ohio] Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell halted the purchase of new electronic voting machines on July 16 after two investigations identified 57 potential software and hardware security threats, North Canton, Ohio’s Diebold Electronic Systems’ dream of a $100 million contract with the state disappeared. (from The Free Press, Ohio Department, 3 Sept 2004.) Personally I hope that Diebold and its owner shrivel up and die (boldly?), but to imply (or state outright) that Diebold had a hand in some undefined shenanigans in votecounting is to make a charge that is completely unsubstantiatable.

I'm so sick of hearing this...ahhh. I'm equally as sick of hearing people say they are going to Canada as I am of hearing Good Riddance and the such. I know it's not just you, either. I'm not trying to make a personal attack. I'm just sick of it. The only way to make this country better is to do it together.

LeapingLizard, I owe you an apology.  Like you, I have heard the threats so much, I mis-assumed you had made one.  I do not want to lose wise dissenters.  And I am glad you are willing to stay and work for change. I do not love GWB. I just felt he was the best choice this year.  perhaps we will be on the same side in the future.

In any event, accept my appology for my myopia.

Baloney, the right piled on Clinton from day one of his presidency. They could not accept that the coattails of Reagan did not extend to '92. They had a "independent" special prosecutor who went after Clinton harder than the state of Florida went after Ted Bundy. How many other civil cases involving one person against one person have gone to a grand jury? Your attitude of if you don't love Republicans then you don't love America, smacks of Nixonism at its worst. The last time I was out of my country I was serving in its armed forces. Once again it seems that Bush is relying on his state campaign chairman to secure a close election for him. Once might be an anomoly, twice is a pattern.

First, you are dead wrong.Second, teh Special prosecutor was appointed by Janet Reno. Third, we did give him a chance, but then he betrayed us with tax increases and Hilllary care.

Fourth, it is not our attitude of love us or leave us, it is your attititude.  You just cant accept your own faults and then projet them on us.  You are wrong on all accounts. 

You want to change things., then stay and fight.  But do not project your own biases and shortcomings on to everyone esle.  You will always be wrong then, and never understand.

Ahem....the reason WF gets a "free pass" (in other words, very little dissention, or only dissention of the mildest sort) is that she has blacklisted any 'real' challengers to her consistently bizarre claims.

LW, that is only part of it.  Most of the rest of us just ignore her.  I do not read her postings, nor respond to any things she replies to.  She is not worth the effort.

Thanks Dr.Guy. A voice of reason!

Ahem....the reason WF gets a "free pass" (in other words, very little dissention, or only dissention of the mildest sort) is that she has blacklisted any 'real' challengers to her consistently bizarre claims.

Oh...so it's not because she's a woman...? Good. I was having a hard time handling that one.

ll

By the way, the fact that a person or company who supported the (successful) campaign then receives some amount of extra consideration shortly thereafter, is a pretty darn standard political quid pro quo arrangement. Happens all the time with both parties. The fact that it was a Voting Machine manufacturer is unfortunate, and is certainly worthy of extra scrutiny. But to immediately denounce both the party and the company as having reached some unholy, illegal arrangement, with NO scrutiny but rather based solely on this little bit of quid pro quo is, frankly, just as outrageously silly as claiming that oil dropping back to the $50/barrel range (less than 10% off its all-time high, by the way) was somehow orchestrated as part of the campaign strategy in some sort of "Look, gas isn't quite as hideously and obnoxiously expensive! All Praise Bush!" maneuver.

Thats her right, but its also somewhat abusive of the "free exchange of ideas" that is supposed to occur on the forums, i mean, isnt interaction the whole POINT of the forums? And as far as syndication goes, all Draginol is doing by allowing this crap is letting her advertise her liberal causes absolutely free of charge. Link after link...address after address, plug after plug, and one conspiracy theory after another. And the deletion of all dissent.....

And, you and hubby bubby blacklisted me because...........................

Fact is, you hate it when people don't agree with you, whipsy. You attacked me on your hubby's post for absolutely no reason, other than I thought your Theresa cookie recipe post was petty bullshit. When hubby got involved, and I stated my case, you both blacklisted me, cuz you knew I was right. I really don't care, other than your hypocrisy, nastiness, racism and homophobia which you post in other's sites are endless, and to which you seem to take so much pride. Sheesh......................

Seems to me, you have no qualms about "advertising" conservative crap. Only liberal causes. You're a freakin' hypocrite, whipsy dipsy.

As for the "janky election", yeah it was. Thousands of votes weren't counted. Counts didn't add up. Diebold, the maker of the electronic voting machines, promised Bush a victory. I don't know whether the votes would have added up to a win for Kerry, though some people are absolutely positive that if counted fairly, he would have won. However, just because the counts were flakey is enough reason for anyone, even conservatives, to question whether democracy was upheld. Fact is, conservatives are just buying into the garbage cuz their fascist buddy boy "won". I am absolutely convinced that if his father, George HW was never president, Dubya never would have risen to the ranks he achieved. That, and janky elections, and he was a shoe-in.