Moderateman Moderateman

Things Might be worse than I thought.

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Things Might be worse than I thought.

I small revision

from JoeUser Forums

Last year I presented an article about how things were not so bad after all, in retrospect i see that if the United States were in grave peril, when it comes to nuclear weapons the countries of Great Britain, France, India, Israel and Pakistan only have small arsenals of such weapons {I felt better after thinking this}

I now know that Pakistan is in peril of their government imploding and becoming a virulent hater of the United States and could sell some suitcase Nukes to Terrorists {so I take back that things are not so bad after all}

It is not cheap to be a nuclear superpower, and right now Russia does not want to spend the money since the world is in a recession, not just the United States, Russia has experienced an roughly 80% fall in their stock market, and the drop in oil prices may have made Russia unable to spend their way back to superpower status.

I am pretty convinced that the KGB spymaster Putin is bluffing when he rattles his tiny little sword and does "war games" with Hugo Chavez and pals around with Fidel Castro and his brother since the ships he is using for these games are of WW2 vintage. I felt much better when I read the U.S. Department of State's Sean McCormack said "if Russia feels as though they want to take some of their old aircraft out of mothballs and fly them around, it's their decision"

In case the bluff of Putin works and people like Barney Frank wants to shift Billions we are spending in Iraq and Afghanistan to the welfare state, this put America in grave peril. Socialism does not work! Period! The people of Europe have proved it does not work, the ancient Chinese tried it and failed, But our President-elect believes it can work {after all he is the Messiah} and is determined to try it again.

Franklin D. Roosevelt Believed that socialism could work and implemented the welfare state, there was a veritable alphabet soup of new programs with the obligatory bureaucrats everywhere! It failed to get us out of the depression, although Democrats will try to blind you to this truth with a bunch of blather. In truth it was WW2 that ended the depression, the free market so to speak ended it, regardless of what the so called "enlightened " ones will tell you. It is these so called "enlightened ones" that want power and authority who are pushing the welfare state. These are the people we need to get rid of before they destroy America!.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to Abigail Adams

" Nothing in the constitution has given them {the Federal Judges} a right to decide for the executive branch, more than the right to decide for them, But the opinion which gives the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what are not, would make the Judicial Branch despotic bunch.

Remember, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.

politics
30,324 views 39 replies
Reply #26 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting watertown1978, reply 25
maudlin27reply 24Quoting Moderateman, reply 6"Socialism does not work! Period! (pure) communism doesn't work. Socialism on the other hand can work (how well it works depends on the socialist measures in question). To give an example, taxing people to raise money for nationalised healthcare (providing services for free) can work, and would generally be seen as a socialist measure."Could you please cite some examples of countries where it works? Then I will tear your arguements down.The National Health Service in the UK is an example of what many would see as a socialist measure, and last I checked it was still running+giving out free health service to everyone. Redistributive tax systems could also be seen as a slightly socialist measure, and even the US has those. Perhaps you could give a few examples of why socialism can never work, rather than just saying it doesn't work (and probably more critically what you mean by "work")? They dont have millions of illegals coming into thier countries either draining the free health care either....

Littlewhips mother-in-law had to wait many, many months for a surgery in England because of how the "free" healthcare is set up there unless you are dieing you have to wait, and wait some more to be treated. No thanks! Canada has a simular healthcare system and while many Americans buy perscription drugs from there because it is cheaper, many Canadians that live on the border with American states come to America for health care so they can be seen quickly even though they have to pay here and it's free there, so again tthe free health care does not work.

Reply #27 from PolMach Forums Top

Quoting Moderateman, reply 1


Littlewhips mother-in-law had to wait many, many months for a surgery in England because of how the "free" healthcare is set up there unless you are dieing you have to wait, and wait some more to be treated. No thanks! Canada has a simular healthcare system and while many Americans buy perscription drugs from there because it is cheaper, many Canadians that live on the border with American states come to America for health care so they can be seen quickly even though they have to pay here and it's free there, so again tthe free health care does not work.

 

well it does vary from area to area in Canada where some of the turnaround is quick while others are very long. But there is no money in it for the doctors either.

 

The reason why health care is so expensive here in the states is because of the sue happy thinking this society has become.... the cost gets passed onto the consumers

Siege of Centauri
Reply #28 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting MasonM, reply 20

We haven't seen any real major technological break-throughs in a very long time. The last one was probably the atomic bomb (a means to kill more people quicker). Nothing we've developed in the past several decades is really anything truly new, just new ways of doing old things. We've stagnated as far as true technology advances go.

What about the massive amount of computer advances?  Medical techologies, genetics techologies in both farming and medicince, telecommuncation advances?

Littlewhips mother-in-law had to wait many, many months for a surgery in England because of how the "free" healthcare is set up there unless you are dieing you have to wait, and wait some more to be treated. No thanks!

There are always stories of how long people have had to wait in certain cases, and while in the 80's it was underfunded it has made great strides and the waits really aren't all that much for non-urget.  My Father's cancer was spotted and operated on within a week, my GP appointments are on the day I ask for them, my wifes physio was within four weeks of going to the GP and her granmothers hip operation was about 2 months.  The key though is that nobody goes without.

Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top

Littlewhips mother-in-law had to wait many, many months for a surgery in England because of how the "free" healthcare is set up there unless you are dieing you have to wait, and wait some more to be treated

You see if you were arguing that socialism isn't perfect, that would be a valid point. However since you're trying to claim it never works, that doesn't sound like "tearing my argument down". You have to have some form of queuing system to prioritise those who most need medical attention. Meanwhile anecdotal evidence is also fairly weak, since you could have 99% of people receiving treatment really quickly, and 1% really slowly. That 1% will provide plenty of anecdotal evidence of how it's not working well, but if looking at the statistics the 99% figure would suggest that yes it is working (not saying these are the actual figures btw, just pointing out how solely using anecdotal evidence isn't enough). I'm confident that if I need medical treatment I will get it, and if it's urgent then I will get prioritised over someone with a far less serious problem. Similarly if it's not urgent I am ok with waiting so someone with a more serious problem can be seen. I also know that I won't be landed with a massive bill that will potentially bankrupt me. The same could not be said of the US healthcare system.

Reply #30 from PolMach Forums Top

Quoting maudlin27, reply 4

Littlewhips mother-in-law had to wait many, many months for a surgery in England because of how the "free" healthcare is set up there unless you are dieing you have to wait, and wait some more to be treated
You see if you were arguing that socialism isn't perfect, that would be a valid point. However since you're trying to claim it never works, that doesn't sound like "tearing my argument down". You have to have some form of queuing system to prioritise those who most need medical attention. Meanwhile anecdotal evidence is also fairly weak, since you could have 99% of people receiving treatment really quickly, and 1% really slowly. That 1% will provide plenty of anecdotal evidence of how it's not working well, but if looking at the statistics the 99% figure would suggest that yes it is working (not saying these are the actual figures btw, just pointing out how solely using anecdotal evidence isn't enough). I'm confident that if I need medical treatment I will get it, and if it's urgent then I will get prioritised over someone with a far less serious problem. Similarly if it's not urgent I am ok with waiting so someone with a more serious problem can be seen. I also know that I won't be landed with a massive bill that will potentially bankrupt me. The same could not be said of the US healthcare system.

 

No it will just bankupt the country

Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top

it will just bankupt the country

Ah yes, because the US spends far less per person than countries with nationalised health systems like the UK at the moment right? Oh wait...

Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top

Obama Idea is to give everyone the same coverage as Congress gets. Ever take a look on what Congress gets for medical, dental and eyes? the kind of care he is talking about would bankrupt the entire country 3 times over.

Socialism works if you want a lazy population, one that does not know how to care for itself unless the Government takes care of them, is this the kind of country we want? where all desire to get ahead is eliminated because Uncle Sam makes sure you have a roof over your head, food on the table, free medical, no work if YOU CHOSE, while in theory it sounds nice it would destroy America.

Reply #33 from PolMach Forums Top

Quoting maudlin27, reply 6

it will just bankupt the country
Ah yes, because the US spends far less per person than countries with nationalised health systems like the UK at the moment right? Oh wait...

 

FIne whatever. I am not gonna go around with you on this to be honest. If you think its such a great idea by all means go to a country that has this crap

Reply #34 from PolMach Forums Top

Quoting Moderateman, reply 7
Obama Idea is to give everyone the same coverage as Congress gets. Ever take a look on what Congress gets for medical, dental and eyes? the kind of care he is talking about would bankrupt the entire country 3 times over.

Socialism works if you want a lazy population, one that does not know how to care for itself unless the Government takes care of them, is this the kind of country we want? where all desire to get ahead is eliminated because Uncle Sam makes sure you have a roof over your head, food on the table, free medical, no work if YOU CHOSE, while in theory it sounds nice it would destroy America.

 

people that like this dont care about the country for the most part ( well there are some that do but are a very few ) it more or less comes down to the thinking "what is in it for me" as you even saw a fine example of it when this other guy posted " I also know that I won't be landed with a massive bill that will potentially bankrupt me" see he doesnt care as long as it does not affect him...

Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top

the kind of care he is talking about would bankrupt the entire country 3 times over

3 times over? Care to provide any figures to back up such a wild claim? At least you seem to have accepted that socialism can work which is progress I guess. I'm afraid I don't have the energy to spend much time questioning how giving handouts to people  who work as much as they are humanly capable of working to ensure they can survive causes a lazy population though (unless you're only saying the lazy population will result in cases of 'extreme' socialism).

he doesnt care as long as it does not affect him

Actually that sort of a view fits in nicely with an extreme capitalist approach, rather than a more socialist one. Capitalism revolves around greed and self interest, and for good reason, since humans are inherintly selfish - people will always do what they think is best for them. It also happens to be the reason why pure communism is doomed to failure, because people are selfish, and pure communism acts as though they're not. Caring for the country (and by extension the people in it) on the other hand is a more socialist ideal!

Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top

This is scary, But I predict a major attack with in one year of Obama taking office. remember you heard it here first.

Not true MM, Senator Joseph Biden said it first on the campaign trail. He warned us that we will face a serious crisis when the world powers test the new president and he asked us to support the president when it happens because it will look like the president is making the wrong choices and decisions at the time but in the end he will be proved right.

Reply #37 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Paladin77, reply 36
This is scary, But I predict a major attack with in one year of Obama taking office. remember you heard it here first.Not true MM, Senator Joseph Biden said it first on the campaign trail. He warned us that we will face a serious crisis when the world powers test the new president and he asked us to support the president when it happens because it will look like the president is making the wrong choices and decisions at the time but in the end he will be proved right.

Ok you heard it here second.

Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top

Not true MM, Senator Joseph Biden said it first on the campaign trail. He warned us that we will face a serious crisis when the world powers test the new president and he asked us to support the president when it happens because it will look like the president is making the wrong choices and decisions at the time but in the end he will be proved right.

And I have some lake front property to sell you in Florida. ;)

Reply #39 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Dr, reply 38
Not true MM, Senator Joseph Biden said it first on the campaign trail. He warned us that we will face a serious crisis when the world powers test the new president and he asked us to support the president when it happens because it will look like the president is making the wrong choices and decisions at the time but in the end he will be proved right.And I have some lake front property to sell you in Florida.

And a bridge that connects Brooklyn to Manhattan