Things Might be worse than I thought.

I small revision

from JoeUser Forums

Last year I presented an article about how things were not so bad after all, in retrospect i see that if the United States were in grave peril, when it comes to nuclear weapons the countries of Great Britain, France, India, Israel and Pakistan only have small arsenals of such weapons {I felt better after thinking this}

I now know that Pakistan is in peril of their government imploding and becoming a virulent hater of the United States and could sell some suitcase Nukes to Terrorists {so I take back that things are not so bad after all}

It is not cheap to be a nuclear superpower, and right now Russia does not want to spend the money since the world is in a recession, not just the United States, Russia has experienced an roughly 80% fall in their stock market, and the drop in oil prices may have made Russia unable to spend their way back to superpower status.

I am pretty convinced that the KGB spymaster Putin is bluffing when he rattles his tiny little sword and does "war games" with Hugo Chavez and pals around with Fidel Castro and his brother since the ships he is using for these games are of WW2 vintage. I felt much better when I read the U.S. Department of State's Sean McCormack said "if Russia feels as though they want to take some of their old aircraft out of mothballs and fly them around, it's their decision"

In case the bluff of Putin works and people like Barney Frank wants to shift Billions we are spending in Iraq and Afghanistan to the welfare state, this put America in grave peril. Socialism does not work! Period! The people of Europe have proved it does not work, the ancient Chinese tried it and failed, But our President-elect believes it can work {after all he is the Messiah} and is determined to try it again.

Franklin D. Roosevelt Believed that socialism could work and implemented the welfare state, there was a veritable alphabet soup of new programs with the obligatory bureaucrats everywhere! It failed to get us out of the depression, although Democrats will try to blind you to this truth with a bunch of blather. In truth it was WW2 that ended the depression, the free market so to speak ended it, regardless of what the so called "enlightened " ones will tell you. It is these so called "enlightened ones" that want power and authority who are pushing the welfare state. These are the people we need to get rid of before they destroy America!.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to Abigail Adams

" Nothing in the constitution has given them {the Federal Judges} a right to decide for the executive branch, more than the right to decide for them, But the opinion which gives the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what are not, would make the Judicial Branch despotic bunch.

Remember, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.

politics
30,322 views 39 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

Rahm Emmanuel said it.  They are using this recession (it is not a crises - yet) to bring back the New Deal.  Which was a bust.  But then we wont have a war (hopefully) to get us out of this one.

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Socialism does not work! Period!

(pure) communism doesn't work. Socialism on the other hand can work (how well it works depends on the socialist measures in question). To give an example, taxing people to raise money for nationalised healthcare (providing services for free) can work, and would generally be seen as a socialist measure.

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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top

Socialism on the other hand can work (how well it works depends on the socialist measures in question).

IN a perfect world.  But we do not live in one.  So like we see with Obama and Rahm, they take, but never give.  Until the only thing left is big brother.

Some will argue with me on that one.  But I challenge any of them to show where rights given up, are restored peacefully.  Ever.

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

MM don't worry about Pakistan giving terrorists a suitcase nuke, I don't believe they have the technology to make one that small (Russia does though, so if one appears you will know where it's from). That doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant. A nuke in a cargo container would be just as terrible.

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Dr, reply 1
Rahm Emmanuel said it.  They are using this recession (it is not a crises - yet) to bring back the New Deal.  Which was a bust.  But then we wont have a war (hopefully) to get us out of this one.
'

When {not if} Obama goes socialist this country will become a second rate power much like France and England, the next real superpower will be China, then look out world!

Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting maudlin27, reply 2
Socialism does not work! Period! (pure) communism doesn't work. Socialism on the other hand can work (how well it works depends on the socialist measures in question). To give an example, taxing people to raise money for nationalised healthcare (providing services for free) can work, and would generally be seen as a socialist measure.

Could you please cite some examples of countries where it works? Then I will tear your arguements down.

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Dr, reply 3
Socialism on the other hand can work (how well it works depends on the socialist measures in question).IN a perfect world.  But we do not live in one.  So like we see with Obama and Rahm, they take, but never give.  Until the only thing left is big brother.Some will argue with me on that one.  But I challenge any of them to show where rights given up, are restored peacefully.  Ever.

The one tha will argue with you fall into the "enlightened ones} catagories DOCG. the will dazzle you with blather

Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Nitro, reply 4
MM don't worry about Pakistan giving terrorists a suitcase nuke, I don't believe they have the technology to make one that small (Russia does though, so if one appears you will know where it's from). That doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant. A nuke in a cargo container would be just as terrible.

This is scary, But I predict a major attack with in one year of Obama taking office. remember you heard it here first.

Reply #9 from PolMach Forums Top

This is scary, But I predict a major attack with in one year of Obama taking office. remember you heard it here first.

Didn't Biden predict the same thing sometime last year?

Reply #10 from PolMach Forums Top

Quoting Moderateman, reply 5
Dr Guycomment 1Rahm Emmanuel said it.  They are using this recession (it is not a crises - yet) to bring back the New Deal.  Which was a bust.  But then we wont have a war (hopefully) to get us out of this one.'

When {not if} Obama goes socialist this country will become a second rate power much like France and England, the next real superpower will be China, then look out world!

ironically china is a socialist country though, a totalitarian one but nonetheless socialist. And apart from the fact that China can blow the whole world up with their nukes, they aren't going to be a a superpower anytime soon, neither economically nor politically.

Reply #11 from PolMach Forums Top

ironically china is a socialist country though, a totalitarian one but nonetheless socialist. And apart from the fact that China can blow the whole world up with their nukes, they aren't going to be a a superpower anytime soon, neither economically nor politically.

Don't be so quick to dismiss China.  Their economic development has skyrocketed in recent years and they are really starting to be quite an economic powerhouse.  It may be awhile before they even attempt to cross into the "superpower" realm but don't count them out.

Reply #12 from PolMach Forums Top

skyrocketed is the wrong term I think, 10 to 15% annual growth is nothing too spectacular for a 3rd world country. They were smart enough to improve their educational system in the recent years a lot but it will take 30 to 50 years before that pays of on a large scale and there is only so far you can get without a high skilled population, even with abundant resources and shamelessly infringing patent laws and copyright.

Even in absolute numbers it doesn't look so impressive they got a lower GDP than Germany which is far from being a superpower. Now if they where theoretically able to maintain 10% growth for the next 15 years they will have the GDP of the USA as of 2007. (while having 4 times the population).

Reply #13 from PolMach Forums Top

Quoting EL-DUDERINO, reply 11

ironically china is a socialist country though, a totalitarian one but nonetheless socialist. And apart from the fact that China can blow the whole world up with their nukes, they aren't going to be a a superpower anytime soon, neither economically nor politically.
Don't be so quick to dismiss China.  Their economic development has skyrocketed in recent years and they are really starting to be quite an economic powerhouse.  It may be awhile before they even attempt to cross into the "superpower" realm but don't count them out.

 

THis is true and people might say...wekk socialism is working great over there... so what the problem?

 

Believe me no one wants to live in china.... the freedoms they have are non existant... in fact for what I just typed would land me in jail or killed.

Reply #14 from PolMach Forums Top

don't get me wrong I, wouldn't like to live their either - I just find the argumentation "USA elected a 'socialist', now it will fall down and a(nother) socialist country will become new superpower" a bit strange.

And that it works great is not really true either, 10% growth is impressive , but you shouldn't forget that its 10% of a very low level.

Reply #15 from PolMach Forums Top

skyrocketed is the wrong term I think, 10 to 15% annual growth is nothing too spectacular for a 3rd world country. They were smart enough to improve their educational system in the recent years a lot but it will take 30 to 50 years before that pays of on a large scale and there is only so far you can get without a high skilled population, even with abundant resources and shamelessly infringing patent laws and copyright.

I am merely reminded of our own industrial revolution with how quickly innovations happened that both improved working environments as well as production capability.  I'm not saying that they will be an economic force to be reckoned with in the next 5 years but I would bet in the next 10-20 things start happening that could start to impact the world market.

Reply #16 from PolMach Forums Top

Quoting TheBigOne, reply 14
don't get me wrong I, wouldn't like to live their either - I just find the argumentation "USA elected a 'socialist', now it will fall down and a(nother) socialist country will become new superpower" a bit strange.

And that it works great is not really true either, 10% growth is impressive , but you shouldn't forget that its 10% of a very low level.

 

but what is keeping them down there? and would the US start falling to a lower lvl and then balance out?

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting TheBigOne, reply 14
don't get me wrong I, wouldn't like to live their either - I just find the argumentation "USA elected a 'socialist', now it will fall down and a(nother) socialist country will become new superpower" a bit strange.And that it works great is not really true either, 10% growth is impressive , but you shouldn't forget that its 10% of a very low level.

The big difference being is China is NOT a welfare country, you either produce or die, Obama and company want to socialize America and turn it into a welfare state. Now do you see why I stated what I did?

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top

"enlightened ones} catagories

Enlightened ones: Noun. Def - those who have deer in the headlights looks on their faces, and "Space!  The Final Frontier" between their ears.

Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting TheBigOne, reply 12
skyrocketed is the wrong term I think, 10 to 15% annual growth is nothing too spectacular for a 3rd world country. They were smart enough to improve their educational system in the recent years a lot but it will take 30 to 50 years before that pays of on a large scale and there is only so far you can get without a high skilled population, even with abundant resources and shamelessly infringing patent laws and copyright.

Even in absolute numbers it doesn't look so impressive they got a lower GDP than Germany which is far from being a superpower. Now if they where theoretically able to maintain 10% growth for the next 15 years they will have the GDP of the USA as of 2007. (while having 4 times the population).

I tend to agree with you for the most part.  However, they do have the people for it, so by shere weight of numbers, they are a force to be reckoned with both economically and militarily.

But they will not maintain that growth for that long.  The middle class is the same all over the world.  Once they got some money, they will want the things.  And in 10-15 years, China may well me a net importer (from Zaire and Vietnam no doubt).

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

I have been giving all of this a lot of thought recently and I am sad to say that socialism is the eventual fate and destruction of any large organized society, even our own. It just appears, to me, to be the eventual end of any society. While it seems great in theory the application has never worked in a positive fashion and in all probability never will.

While this may sound extreme and even absurd, I believe that we are on the doorstep of a "dark ages" of sort where the world's societies will be plunged yet again into some serious economic and technological stagnation and perhaps even reversal. Of course eventually progress will take hold again but all of those reading this now will be long dead before that happens, along with their children and grandchildren. Most, if not all, of us won't even live to see it reach it's low point.

Societies have always advanced based mainly upon technological advances. We haven't seen any real major technological break-throughs in a very long time. The last one was probably the atomic bomb (a means to kill more people quicker). Nothing we've developed in the past several decades is really anything truly new, just new ways of doing old things. We've stagnated as far as true technology advances go. For us, in the end, I think we'll be known as the "electrical age". It seems like electricity has been our marked advancement and we've done about all we could with it (such as writing this reply).

It just seems to me to be the historical fate of all great societies.  They reach a technological and social peak and then either die off or are destroyed. We aren't exempt from this historical path by any means.

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

ironically china is a socialist country though, a totalitarian one but nonetheless socialist.

Not in the way most people would think of Socialism. In China there is no social health care. If you can't pay the hospital you don't go. Little or no welfare. Work is not guaranteed by the state either, there are many out of work college grads there. And speaking of college, there is a tuition fee. Capitalism is rife there, many businesses small and large, you would think you are in any western city when you walk down the street, and no the secret police don't follow you either. Forget what you've seen on TV or in the movies it's just not like that, not now anyway. I would classify their government more as authoritarian than totalitarian since Mao's death.

China has about 200 nukes of all types. Enough to hurt anyone if they wanted too, but far less than the US or Russia. I wasn't too impressed with their military (especially the ones I saw climbing on top of a local monument, to get a photo, just didn't seem too professional), but I suppose some units are better than others. Of course they haven't had any real combat since 1978 (Vietnam) and they had a poor showing there. I don't feel China will be a super power militarily anytime soon, but economically is another matter. They past Germany last year, 2 to go.

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top

Believe me no one wants to live in china.... the freedoms they have are non existant... in fact for what I just typed would land me in jail or killed.

My wife owns a home there. We've often talked about negative aspects of the Chinese government right out in the open on the street, never got arrested (I'm as anti-communist as one could get). You'd have to make a scene or some sort of distraction to get hauled in. If human rights protests are part of your day, sure I'd recommend not living there. Everything I do in the states I've done in China (minus gun ownership). Between my military pension and my wifes future pension from her university, it's part of my retirement plan. 500 bucks a month and you can live pretty good there (not Shanghai, Hong Kong or Beijing though). Not coming down on you, I thought that way too before I went there.

Reply #23 from PolMach Forums Top

Quoting Nitro, reply 22

Believe me no one wants to live in china.... the freedoms they have are non existant... in fact for what I just typed would land me in jail or killed.
My wife owns a home there. We've often talked about negative aspects of the Chinese government right out in the open on the street, never got arrested (I'm as anti-communist as one could get). You'd have to make a scene or some sort of distraction to get hauled in. If human rights protests are part of your day, sure I'd recommend not living there. Everything I do in the states I've done in China (minus gun ownership). Between my military pension and my wifes future pension from her university, it's part of my retirement plan. 500 bucks a month and you can live pretty good there (not Shanghai, Hong Kong or Beijing though). Not coming down on you, I thought that way too before I went there.

well your not a full time live in there>  I would give the okay coming from a full time citizen there but... not a half and half

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Moderateman, reply 6

"Socialism does not work! Period! (pure) communism doesn't work. Socialism on the other hand can work (how well it works depends on the socialist measures in question). To give an example, taxing people to raise money for nationalised healthcare (providing services for free) can work, and would generally be seen as a socialist measure."
Could you please cite some examples of countries where it works? Then I will tear your arguements down.

The National Health Service in the UK is an example of what many would see as a socialist measure, and last I checked it was still running+giving out free health service to everyone. Redistributive tax systems could also be seen as a slightly socialist measure, and even the US has those. Perhaps you could give a few examples of why socialism can never work, rather than just saying it doesn't work (and probably more critically what you mean by "work")?

Reply #25 from PolMach Forums Top

Quoting maudlin27, reply 24

Quoting Moderateman, reply 6
"Socialism does not work! Period! (pure) communism doesn't work. Socialism on the other hand can work (how well it works depends on the socialist measures in question). To give an example, taxing people to raise money for nationalised healthcare (providing services for free) can work, and would generally be seen as a socialist measure."
Could you please cite some examples of countries where it works? Then I will tear your arguements down.
The National Health Service in the UK is an example of what many would see as a socialist measure, and last I checked it was still running+giving out free health service to everyone. Redistributive tax systems could also be seen as a slightly socialist measure, and even the US has those. Perhaps you could give a few examples of why socialism can never work, rather than just saying it doesn't work (and probably more critically what you mean by "work")?

 

They dont have millions of illegals coming into thier countries either draining the free health care either....