kenwas kenwas

We've been had again!

We've been had again!

Remember the bailout?

For those following the great $700B bailout plan, it would appear that we have been had again.  First, Paulson was going to buy "toxic assets from the banks.  That was changed to a plan to give loans to the banks with oversite and strings attached.  None of that happened.  What did happen was the government simply bought non-voting shares of stock in the banks and the banks are free to do with the cash whatever they wish.  There are no strings attached, not even a requirement to begin lending again.  Ergo, Fannie Mae will be using part of the funds to retain defense attorneys for the very executives that created the problem in the first place.  Not only are we giving them these funds without strings or oversite, we are now paying the defense fees of the executives.  It would appear that we have been had again.

39,162 views 94 replies
Reply #52 Top

Furthermore excise fees, property taxes and other forms of governement revenue measures take a huge bite out of what little purchasing power the poor have. A fifty dollar water bill is a nit to some people to others it a financial strain.

The US doesn't really have free markets. It has a significant number of legalized monopolies and manipulation of the legal system by those forcing their way up while they force others down.

Correct to a large degree, BDBF. Wonder what Cable would cost if 2 or 3 companies were competing for your business! If the pols really wanted to help the economically disadvantaged, eliminating Sales Tax for them would do a heck of a lot more than tax cuts!

Reply #53 Top

And Ken, I'm not directing any anger at you, just venting frustration.

I never took it that you were. :-)  All the best to you!

 

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Reply #54 Top

Just found this in some emails I hadn't opened until today.

 
Subject: MAKES SENSE TO ME

 

I didn’t do the math, but what a concept!

 

The Birk Economic Recovery PLan 

 

 

Hi Pals,

 

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

 

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a 'We Deserve It Dividend'.

 

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bon-a-fide U.S. Citizens 18+.

 

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

 

So divide 200 million adults 18+  into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

 

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a 'We Deserve It Dividend'.

 

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.  So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

 

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.  That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

 

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.  A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

 

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

 

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+  including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

 

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

 

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

 

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

 

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

 

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

 

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

 

How do you spell Economic Boom?

 

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion 'We Deserve It Dividend' more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.

 

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

 

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

 

Kindest personal regards,

 

Birk

 

T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic

 

Reply #55 Top

Just found this in some emails I hadn't opened until today.

Subject: MAKES SENSE TO ME



I didn’t do the math, but what a concept!



The Birk Economic Recovery PLan

I proposed this myself, that if the economic bailout were to instead give 'the people' the propensity to pay (off their mortgages, credit card debts and for goods and services) it would create economic growth through increased sales, higher employment and thus increased tax revenue to help better balance the Federal Budget and stimulate the GDP.

But no... that's liberal socialism and not the American way, so yet again the greedy high rollers benefit and the needy still get screwed by a fundamentally flawed principle. OK, it may have been seen by the 'founding fathers' as being right not to include socialist ideals in the US Constitution, but they were different times (opportunity for all was much greater) and they could not have foressen the current financial/political climate, which offers great opportunities to the haves while effectively denying them to the have nots. Yup, things have to change!

Reply #56 Top

Ummmm,..... the bailout money is coming from your own pocket. That plan is more of a failout. ;P

Reply #57 Top

Ummmm,..... the bailout money is coming from your own pocket. That plan is more of a failout.

No, not really!  Going into the coffers of the banks to do with as they wish IS coming OUT of your pocket... to get some of your own money back to make ends meet/ keep a roof over your head is stimilating the economy, which in turn helps the banks... if they're good enough to rethink and get themselves out of the shit. 

Put another way!  Who would you rather see have the money, the billionaires/multi-millionaire who created this mess, or for yourself to receive a small part of it to keep your head above water/enjoy a slightly better quality of life???  While some may say that they don't need it, and you may be one of those who is more financially secure, I don't know, but there are millions in the US who DO need that helping hand.

Here's one for ya... the Rudd Government here in Oz recently announced that aged and disability pensioners will receive a one off bonus payment of about $1000 - $1200 to assist those most disadvantaged/at the lowest end of the socio-economic scale.  Now while that might seem wrong to some in the US, those people/we are getting back some of our own tax money, and most business/community leaders are applauding the move (and remember, these are tax payers too) as being good for spending and the economy in general.

Things were already bad enough here, what with the high cost of food and petrol (not to mention clothing)... and even when oil prices went down significantly, the price of fuel remained unnecesarily high, and thus food/life's essentials.  So when the US financial crisis hit our shores to decimate the budgets of fixed income pensioners, there was about 5 1/2 - 6 million of them who thanked God that we have a socialist system here in Australia... otherwise many would have NO access to food, medicine or transport... and many of them would also be homeless.

While this concept may seem foreign/alien to many in the US, it's a system that works well in many countries around the World, not just here in Australia.    Is it perfect here?  Certainly not, far from it... and some people still fall through the cracks, but still, we'd rather put our faith in a mistake prone government than corporate entities seeking only to profit at our expense.  And do we like/trust our politicians?  Nope!  But the majority here would place trust in a politician before they trusted a corporate entity that would take their last dollar through jacking up prices to increase profit.  Sure, we need big business, but we don't need it to keep screwing us in the name of greed.

 

Reply #58 Top

I didn’t do the math, but what a concept!

Er....no-one 'did the math'

85 billion divided by 200 million is not 425,000 anythings.

It's 425.

If you can pay off your house mortgage with 425 minus tax then you ain't in any 'crisis' at all..... JAFOCHECK

Reply #59 Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 8

I didn’t do the math, but what a concept!
Er....no-one 'did the math'

85 billion divided by 200 million is not 425,000 anythings.

It's 425.

If you can pay off your house mortgage with 425 minus tax then you ain't in any 'crisis' at all.....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Darn those pesky decimal points!!!

Reply #60 Top

Er....no-one 'did the math'

85 billion divided by 200 million is not 425,000 anythings.

It's 425.

If you can pay off your house mortgage with 425 minus tax then you ain't in any 'crisis' at all..... Spell checker

 

There you go Paul.  Trying to confuse things with FACTS!

Reply #61 Top


Damn Jafo, it sounded SO good.  And even 425 is probably better than we'll come out with the bailout the way it is now.

Reply #63 Top

Seems like we're going to have a lot of people with a lot of money and no one will be around to take care of them.  I wonder how that will work for them.

Reply #64 Top

And now the first of the credit card companies has joined the fun!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122635928776415457.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us

 

Is there no end?  Does anyone realize the bill we are preparing for our children?  I can't imagine that the airlines can not be far behind.  Sure seems like massive self destruction to me.

Reply #65 Top

And now the first of the credit card companies has joined the fun!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122635928776415457.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us



Is there no end? Does anyone realize the bill we are preparing for our children? I can't imagine that the airlines can not be far behind. Sure seems like massive self destruction to me.

It does seem that this is a very slippery slope we are on and the bottom is not in sight at the moment.

All this brought on by a unnatural desire to spend money we didn't have to buy things that we didn't need that more than likey broke before we finished paying for them.  All along we were being told we have a strong economy.  Imagine that. 

I don't believe I learned this in my Accounting and Business courses that I took.  Doesn't sound like a good practice to me. 

Reply #66 Top

And now AIG wants more, Fannie Mae wants more and the auto industry wants bailed out.  What happened to the days when if you mismanaged your busines you went belly up?  If I mismanaged my funds I'm just screwed right!  I know I'm not very well educated but I know bullshit when I smell it.#:(

Reply #67 Top

A FOIA has been filed by Bloomberg

regarding the Bailout money. Now it also seems the money (section 382) ($145 Billion) is immune from oversight and Treasury doesn't have to tell us where it went! This is just incredible!

Reply #68 Top

Hey if the annointed one wants wealth to be from bottom up and wants to spread wealth around. I suggest the give everyone who paid personal income taxes a 50 thousand dollar rebate if they made less than 250 grand a year. Individuals that did not pay taxes in 2008 would be disqualified except for retirees on Social Security who may or may not have paid into the tax system. This would infuse the economy with lots of money. Bills would be paid. Payments on mortages would be made vehicles would be bought, some would invest and save money.

This is far better than bailing out big business and it helps the middle class

Reply #69 Top

I told you Doc that I couldn't make this stuff up.  For all those who wish to lay this solely at Bush's door, please note the comment by good old Barney Frank in the Bloomberg article about not to worry(which is what he said about Fannie and Fredie) and if the Treasury had to take a little hit here and there that's OK.  As if it were their money somehow!  ALL of these folks are out of control.

Reply #70 Top

I know I'm not very well educated but I know bullshit when I smell it.

Exactly so!

Reply #71 Top

Quoting kenwas, reply 19
I told you Doc that I couldn't make this stuff up.  For all those who wish to lay this solely at Bush's door, please note the comment by good old Barney Frank in the Bloomberg article about not to worry(which is what he said about Fannie and Fredie) and if the Treasury had to take a little hit here and there that's OK.  As if it were their money somehow!  ALL of these folks are out of control.

Didn't ever mean that you would think I was doubting you, Ken. I, when astounded and dumbfounded ask 'are you sure?' or alike expressions.

This is simply beyond any comprehension! Isn't there a way to sic someone with Investigative clout on them...?

Dammit! I demand to know where my money is going!

 

 

 

 

Reply #72 Top

The Birk Economic Recovery PLan

 

85 billion divided by 200 million is not 425,000 anythings.

It's 425.

 

One point in this non-equation...if they were ever to do this, pay it out to those who have paid taxes for the last 5 years. I am thinking that the share would go up per person considerably, since there are many citizens, legal and illegal, who haven't paid.( I put the illegals in, because many have been give SSN and are given health and welfare benefits, which they should never have been qualified for) So, what, that cuts out roughly 1/3 of the 18+ population who won't get paid? Just a thought. ;)

Reply #73 Top

And now this from Fannie

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122641622440217445.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us

which includes the following:

"The streamlined effort will target certain loans that are 90 days or more past due, these people said. The program will aim to bring the ratio of mortgage payments for these homeowners to 38% of their income by modifying interest rates and in some cases forgiving portions of principal debt, these people said."

Which says to me that those folks that took 2 jobs and scraped by to pay their mortgage on time are just f*****d!

This does not become fair in my eyes on the basis that it will help protect the value of the other homes in the neighborhood.  They are doing this only for certain regions of the country (sunbelt).

Reply #74 Top

I only hope it works on my little part of the sunbelt Ken.  I'm just too old and sick to live under a bridge.  Besides you can hardly find a good refrigerator box anymore.