And that would be a lie, as I told you before.

Obama actually does promote socialist policies. But McCain and Bush support no fascist policies.

That's why socialists (and fascists) all over the world support Obama and not McCain or Bush.

No. What you don't understand is simple sentences in English. For example, nobody said anything about card-carrying commies. Supporting many socialist policies makes one a _socialist_. That's what socialists do: they support socialist policies.

But on the other hand, supporting policies that fascists hate and oppose does NOT make one a fascist. What's so difficult about that?

You might want to read up on socialism and socialist politicians.

Once you understand what socialism is, and understand the difference between socialism and communism (in politics), and learn about fascism and what fascists think about McCain and Bush, you might not be an idiot any more.

Perhaps you lack experience. I have lived in in two European countries. My parents were for a long time members of a socialist party (which never ever promoted nationalising any major industries and in fact opposed communism). I myself voted for socialists in 1998.

And I have met German neo-Nazis. And I can tell you they absolutely HATE Israel and America and especially George W. Bush. They hate him and everything he stands for. They hate the fact that the US invaded Iraq (surprisingly enough neo-Nazis supported the Baath dictatorship, which makes a lot of sense considering the history of the Baath party and what it stands for and when and why it was founded). They hate support for Israel. And they hate most Republicans.

I cannot tell neo-Nazis who and what I am, of course, because REAL fascists, in contrast to your phantasy fascists of the Republican party, react badly to certain ethnic groups.

And the reason the argument goes "nowhere" is simply that you refuse to understand simple facts.

Again:

Obama supports socialist policies and is hence a socialist.

McCain does not support fascist policies and is hence not a fascist.

Obama is supported by socialists (and fascists) everywhere in the world.

McCain is hated by fascists (and socialists) everywhere in the world.

Calling Obama a "socialist" is a legitimate rating of his political positions. Calling McCain a fascist is stupid and silly, given that his political positions make him the sworn enemy of fascists world-wide and in the US.

Here is an article by David Duke, an actual white supremacists and the "intelectual" voice of the Ku-Klux-Klan about George Bush:

http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007/12/david-duke-says-impeach-george-bush.html

Let's see what a fascists thinks about the politician you think should be called a "fascist". I don't think I have to quote statements of German socialists (of both socialist parties) about Obama, do I?

Anywhere, here we go:

"It shows once more that the Neocons and their puppet George Bush have been lying to us about Iran for at least 5 years, fomenting war against an innocent nation. Accusing pre-Second World War Germany of “planning an aggressive war,” America led the prosecution at Nuremberg. Is President Bush not guilty of those charges. America is now seen by the world as a rogue, terrorist nation, launching a lie-fomented Iraq War for Israel’s strategic interests, and trying to launch a devastating war on Iran for Israel."

"In every way George Bush and his Neocon handlers have been a catastrophe for true American interests."

"And now, this supine servant of the Israeli extremists and their unholy influence over American politics and media, have tried to create an even more devastating war against Iran, and once again, all of his machinations and of his Jewish-supremacist bosses have turned out to be nothing but lies."

You can read similar statements about George Bush (and now McCain) on German and Arab neo-Nazi Web sites.

Realise that that is why so many Republicans think that all liberals are loonies. You people either don't know these things or you don't care. The fact that YOU (at least claim to) think that fascism is bad does not stop you from (I) allying with fascists and (II) calling George Bush a fascist.

Perhaps, if fascism is so bad, you should support those that fight fascism and whom fascists hate? Or is that too rational?

My major reason for supporting George Bush, whose economic policies I do not always support (you see, I am a bit of a socialist myself), is that those who want to kill me HATE him. Those in Germany who still believe that Hitler was the good guy HATE George Bush. Those in the Arab world who believe the same also HATE George Bush.

And left-wing loonies hate him too.

Seems like the guy has a lot going for him.

I cannot imagine violent protests against Obama in Germany. Can you?

All the violent people hate George Bush, not Obama. Doesn't that worry you at all?

It might be of some interest that Joerg Haider, Austrian neo-Nazi politician and governor of the Austrian state of Carinthia, has died yesterday in a car accident.

Bloomberg reports here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=alTn45Ee18wM

He was a typical fascist:

- his parents were members of the NSDAP

- he praised Adolf Hitler's labour policy

- he was a personal friend of Saddam Hussein's

- criticised George Bush over his Iraq policy

- was famous for his verbal fights with the Jewish community in Vienna

- did not improve the relations between Austria and Israel to say the least

- was against foreigners and immigration

If that were true you wouldn't have brought it up.

I don't know what a "progressive" is, but I noticed the word was often used by people opposed to regime change in Iraq and other Arab dictatorships to describe themselves. Not all of those "progressives" are socialists. Some are, as I mentioned before, fascists trying to protect allied dictatorships.

I already told you who I believe to be a socialist and why. So what is that question about? You just keep ignoring what I say and seem to be stuck in a loop.

Several people here have listed those of Obama's positions that are socialist. I am not going to list them again. I can expect you to go back and read all the stuff you previously ignored, can't I?

Can you please go back and read what we both wrote? Except for one statement about Hitler's labour policy I wasn't talking about economic policies AT ALL.

I was mostly talking about international policies. George's Bush international policies were anti-fascist to the core, and have been harshly criticised by white supremacists in the US and neo-Nazis in Europe. John McCain stands for roughly the same policies and fascists are criticising him too. (Ron Paul was more to their liking.)

I don't know if you realise, but when I talk about one subject, that's the subject I am talking about. So when I keep talking about international policies in response to your "argument", just assume that that was the subject I thought your "argument" was about.

It might perhaps surprise you to learn that support for minorities in the middle east (including most prominently Jews and Israel, and Kurds in Iraq and Syria) and opposition (including violent such) to fascist dictatorships like Iraq and Syria _IS_ anti-fascism. OTOH supporting fascists like the dictators and ruling parties of Syria and (back then) Iraq does NOT constitute anti-fascist policy.

And those positions are exactly what white supremacists like David Duke and other KKK ilk are opposed to. They condemn Israel and openly support Syria (and openly supported Iraq). David Duke visited Syria last year. Joerg Haider (Austria neo-Nazi, recently died) visited Saddam Hussein in 2003 before the invasion to voice his support for the Baath regime.

The other international policies that George Bush promoted were isolation of North-Korea (which is arguably something a fascist might also do), and sponsoring peace treaties that ended civil wars in Liberia and Sudan (protecting black Christians and animists from Arab nationalists). The last two are obviously not "fascist policies".

George Bush's position regarding Iran is also widely condemned by white supremacists and neo-Nazis. It's hardly a fascist policy to try to keep a dictatorship openly hostile to several of its neighbours from getting nuclear weapons.

As for Bush's social policies, you might have to enlighten me (and that means point to a source) about what social policies George Bush supported and why they are fascist. The only social policies that Bush supported that I remember are that thing about no kid left behind and his position regarding illegal immigrants from Mexico (where his stance was again condemned by white supremacists).

I don't know. Can you?

Once you actually seem to react to what was said and don't just keep coming back with the same faulty statements about socialists and fascists, I'll happily admit that I don't think that you are an idiot any more.

We'll see whether the explanation above will have any impact whatsoever on your part of the discussion. But what I expect is that you will again completely ignore everything I said and just pretend that it makes sense that calling McCain a fascist is the same as calling Obama a socialist, for no reason other than that you don't know what fascists believe and what socialists believe.