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McCain won this debate. Obama was stammering and on the defensive throughout most of it. McCain "schooled" Obama on foreign affairs while Obama was busy repeating attacks on Bush and old talking points.
Democrats, you should have went with Hillary.
Enough of this nonsense! Obama completely overhauled a condescending old-age pensioner who thinks he's wiser than most because of his record. Being a war hero and a senate senior, McCain talked down to Obama. McCain is a Bushite with a hell of an ego. Well done to Obama for standing up to this crap!
Let's be clear. Kissinger did say exactly that he supported negotiations without preconditions. There are quotes and a verification from Katie Couric. What Fox news did is let kissinger clarify what he said and said he would like to see that happen only after lower levels had met and they were close to an agreement. Obama also clarified this in the debate (go watch it again). Unfortunately, many think that there is something wrong with clarification. Also, NPR is only one source and anyone who would really like the whole picture should visit several. I never advise someone who really wants to evaluate all sides to never try to understand the opposition. I'm afraid that is one of the reasons that we can't have an honest discussion about any of this.
When did Obama stand up? I just kept hearing..."I agree with John". It's obvious from the debate that McCain is much wiser, and his experience shows, rather than Ugh-bama's inexperience.
kurtin posts# 2
Kurtin,
McCain out of touch? You, and anyone else who thinks he's out of touch especially on this economic crisis, should check out the bill he co-sponsored in 2005, "Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act"?
McCain has proven himself as stellar; very much on the high road as far as being in touch with the economy. He warned of mortgage collapse and credit crisis and this bill that the Dems rejected and defeated proves it. Read his senate floor statement:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r109:16:./temp/~r109nEqCIT::
McCain co-sponosred legislation that would have prevented it and go after the corruption that has caused much of the problem.
And as far as the Dems and Obama's fingerpointing to Bush, the Republicans and McCain, better check out Clinton for he's the one who put the Charter Redevelopment Act (google it...from the Carter days) which dictated where mortgage lenders would lend and in essence helped create the market for high risk sub prime loans that have ended up breaking Wall Street.
Obama is a hypocrite in this regard claiming it's Bush, the GOP and by inference McCain...when in fact it began with Democrats, was pushed through Congress by Clintonites, and furthered along by Obama himself and those toadies of his who are involved in his campaign like James Johnson and Penny Pritzer both part of the financial engineering that caused the meltdown.
I was talking about his foreign policy ideas with that statement, Lula, not the economic situation. I'm tired of people passing the buck with this whole bailout fiasco. Instead of blaming from party to party, something that I personally have not done and will not do, let's just fix it. Just because it's an election year this is party politics to the extreme, whereas other times it would be perfect for bipartisan legislation and cooperation across the board. This is not simply a democrat/republican situation, and you'd best recognize that. It might help you sleep at night once Obama gets elected.
Yes! Reality Check! NCLB is "more money to schools" written by a liberal! God help us!
I have a better idea. Reduce taxes by the amount you want to "help schools" and let the locals keep the money and help schools! The farther away you get from "the schools" the more money is wasted. Very little of your federal tax dollar earmarked for education actually gets to the student level. Most is sucked up by bureaucrats in the chain.
yep, tis true!
Yes, you are correct about the 'earmarked' money, Dr Guy, but what about money that isn't? Perhaps Obama's education spending initiatives look a little more appealing to you? I hope so. The necessary reforms to NCLB will take place under his leadership.
For me after seeing this video, McCain wins in the trust category too.
The mainstream media are all biased towards Obama and like him are trying to pin the crisis on Republicans...don't believe it. This is a clip of a Congressional Banking and Finance Committee hearing on regulating Fannie Mae....it's proof the Democrats, including Barney Frank, wanted no part of regulating Fannie Mae. You'll see a guy from Fannie Mae being questioned....Franklin Raines....He's the guy who works for Obama as his chief ecomomic advisor. Raines was knee deep in Fannie Mae.
Obama claims he'll clean up this mess, yet, his very advisors, Raines and Johnson, are responsible for the mess in the first place!! Are you Obama devotees getting this? Obama trusts people who greedily tore down Wall Street and lined their pockets bigtime to be his advisors....and I must ask....what does Obama "owe" Raines.....a top position in his Administration should he be elected? I shudder at the very thought....and another reason I can't trust Obama.
Lula, no Republican would check facts at NPR. Only a far out left winger would do such a thing. (I can swear I hear toccata fugue D minor).
So, Anthony,,, yup....you're quite right....
JohnReed is BUSTED?
LULA POSTS:
KURTIN POSTS:
Marching in liberal lockstep, Kurtin.
Today the average government school cost per year for one student is $10,000. While I learned to read by 1st grade, today it's by the 4th....I'd like to see kids be able to read by 4th grade for $40,000. In 2007, 34% of 4th graders scored below basic reading on the national assessments. This spells B-I-G P-R-O-B-L-E-M, Kurtin. How is throwing more money going to help in your estimation? That's how it got to be $40,000...low scores...liberals throw more money....still low scores....liberals throw more money....
In case you haven't noticed, Obama isn't addressing these low scores....nope, they aren't even on his radar...he's not focused on academics....that's becasue he's only heard from his special interest groups and been advised by the NEA...they aren't interested in teaching kids to read, spell and do math. They want 4 year olds joining 5 year olds learning in sex ed that Susie has two mommies. If you don't believe me check out what's going on in Massachusetts this school year.
No, throwing money at schools, as DrGuy and KFC have already mentioned doesn't get "trickled down" to them anyway, isn't the way to go. Not if one really cares about kids that is....
Do you have any idea how this all works?? Try explaining the process in your lame terms to someone else who might not work in the education business. I learned how to read by Kindergarten...it's about the teachers. It's also about the parents providing a positive learning environment for their children outside of the school system. High standards are put in place with NCLB to keep to that promise of improving where our education system is currently lacking. However, removing money and shutting down troubled schools is not seeking improvement. That's simply denying progress. Obama isn't focused on the academics?? Look again, o' closed-minded one.
What makes you believe Obama can 'fix it?' For one thing, his pockets are loaded with Franklin Raines cash, and that puts him right in the middle of this whole housing scam that got us here in the first place.
Did I once say that Obama could 'fix it?' Wow, I guess I must be slipping with age...
No but I thought thats what you implied with the whole 'lets not assign blame' mantra. How can you fix a problem if you won't even look at what caused it in the first place?
Even so, at the time, who was controling Congress? Who was the majority in both Higher and Lower chambers? Who had majority to choose the appointments of critical federal positions?
On the whole, the Republicans too backed down from doing more regulation. I'd say both parties are much to blame.
Exactly Lula.
exactly Anthony!
How many of you read the NY times and remember the piece written up in 1999? I just put the artilce up on my site that gives us a yesterday glance at how, where and when this all started. Franklin Raines was a very big player in all of this. What gets me is that he was Obama's choice for running his VP selection committee. Just goes to show you Obama is a very poor decision maker yet once again.
http://kfc.joeuser.com/article/326127/Rewind_to_1999
No, it goes back to the strings attached. The only education plan that Obama coudl propose that I would say "Ok, that is new" is to cut taxes and have the locals increase theirs to pay for it. Because a dollar sent to Washington gets back to its intended "aid" point as about 37 cents. And I dont think Obama is proposing that (to be honest I dont think McCain is either, but that was not the question).
There is only one reform to NCLB that will make a difference. Scrap it and refund the money to the states.
hey! We all do. 
Kinda like how the current Congress is controlled by the Democrats yet they could not pass the bailout bill and blamed the Republicans for it even though 90 Democrats voted against it.
I don't entirely agree with this statement. Federal government has poked its nose into state education ever since this bill was put out since now they had more investment, but I don't think that scrapping it is going to solve our problems for the nation's education standards. If we want all students to succeed there should be more accountability for teachers, schools, and districts, but this should still not be based on federal initiatives. States should have the control over education, no doubt. Still, we do need this federal money in the schools to provide improved resources for development to compare adequately across the globe.
Lol, the *wink*!! Dr G winks with me now 
, and for those that don't get it...I'm not that old. 
This is a cut and paste from Obama's blue print for change..
High-Quality Zero to Five Early Education
Obama will launch a Children’s First Agenda that provides care, learning and support to families with
children from birth up to five years old.
Reform No Child Left Behind
Obama believes that the goal of No Child Left Behind was the right one, but that it was written and
implemented poorly and it has demoralized our educators and broken its promise to our children. Obama
will fund No Child Left Behind and improve its assessments and accountability systems.
Improve K-12
Obama will improve our schools by recruiting well-qualified teachers to every classroom in America. Obama
will improve teacher compensation by rewarding expert, accomplished teachers for taking on challenging
assignments and helping teachers succeed. Obama also will reduce the high school dropout rate and close
the achievement gap by investing in proven intervention strategies in the middle grades and in summer
learning and afterschool opportunities.
--------------------------
Obama's "Children's First Agenda" would provide care, learning and support of children ages 0--5 years old????...where is it in the US Constitution that says the President's job is to provide this?
You need to wake up Kurtin....Obama is a Socialist.
Initiatives for providing early education and support systems for children = socialism?!? Nonsense!! Don't you like providing opportunities? Remember, a plan put together by a candidate doesn't just happen. We need legislation to support such procedures. If you want to put country first, especially in education, there needs to be a federal level of involvement while providing money and resources. Just so you know, going to his site and posting bullet points doesn't help your cause since I have already been there and read up. I have done the same at McCain's. Now, if you want to talk about specifics, it might help to listen to speeches and focus on the talks within the debates. I know for a fact that Obama specifically mentioned improving student learning for mathematics and sciences to compete in industry and business on a world-stage. Providing those highlights doesn't support your perception that Obama isn't in support of academics... in fact, from what I read in those simple points, he does care about our schools and the futures of our children.
Yup! My point exactly. And the morale of this story children is...
STOP TRYING TO FIND WHO'S FAULT IT IS AND FIX THE DARN THING BEFORE IT BLOWS UP!!!
One, the feds have been in education for a lot longer (think Carter and the new Cabinet position - and even before then). I worked in education (state and local) for about 13 years, and saw the stupidity, waste and outright fraud (from a definition standpoint, not a legal one) that was perpetrated by the feds in it. SO I have no illusions about NCLB starting it.
And 2, the premise is all wrong. The feds cannot do a thing for education. I will say that at least from good intentions, NCLB was a try. But they are simply too far removed and do not have the authority to do good, only to make things worse. Education, regardless of your desire, is a local issue. It is run locally. It is done locally, and ideally the parents and teachers should take care of it locally. But the feds can only mess with the batter the cook is trying to make, and not create their own batter. National education standards is a myth. You have pockets of excellence and pockets of rot. But the feds cannot address the rot since they do not (nor would I ever want them to) have the tools, the expertise, or the knowledge. The one promise that Reagan did not keep, but should have, was to get rid of the Dept of Education. It is just an albatross on the necks of the good schools, and does nothing to help the bad ones.
And that is where we diverge. I see no value in sending money to DC, only to be sucked dry by a bureaucracy that has no other purpose than self perpetuation, and then to let the dried shriveled dregs filter down to the local level. I find it funny that people who rail against the trickle down theory of Reagonomics, push so hard to implement it on a government level.
The locals could do a lot more with the money if they were allowed to keep it, instead of forfeiting it to the feds.
That's what we ALL say.
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