Paying taxes is not patriotic

Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

Paying taxes is not patriotic

Joe Biden had the audacity to say that it's time for the rich (those making $250k or more according to him) to be more patriotic and pay more taxes for the sake of the country.

Of course, what Biden, like most clueless government types doesn't realize is that the government is an anchor, a parasite living off the earnings of patriotic Americans who actually make our country successful.

The more we tax, the more we bog down our economy. Hence, a responsible government should try to be as small as possible, focusing on things that just don't make sense for the private sector to handle (roads, national defense, police, fire departments, courts, and non-partial regulation of business).

What's amazing about Biden, Democratic vice presidential candidate, is that while he has averaged making $250k per year for the past 10 years, he has averaged only a few hundred bucks a year in charitable giving.

Read the whole thing here:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/128900.html

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because the poor are the one(mostly) dying for our freedom. Hmm pay more money or lose a child, father, brother, mother, sister, daughter. Which would you choose. And when the rich are willing to run to war as the poor and put their lives on the line then come talk to me and maybe we can discuss it.

As a vet, this is one of the most troubling, dishonest, demeaning and offensive statements I've heard in a long time. Of course there are some people from humble backgrounds, but I would place most from average income family backgrounds. Some come to improve their lives economically, some for training or adventure, and others from a sense of duty, but all are aware of the potential risks. You perpetuate the time during the draft (it ended in the 70's) when attending college was a way out for people with money. Those peoples legacy lives on in organizations like Code Pink.

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You never will be rich 0r stop struggling to support with that attitude.

I am already rich where it counts. And what attitude would you be refering to?

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Really? Palin is Poor? Shazaam! I never knew that McCain grew up poor!

But it would do you well to stop spouting discredited talking points and lies, and present facts and truths.

BTW: Last I checked, not all Poor people had relatives in the Military, but all Rich people paid taxes. So my point stands even with your non-facts.

Come on its not talking points, its facts, look at the military how many rich people do youu have in the military? Very few. They dont need the kind of benefits that the military offers.

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I am literally a poor student. I pay for my own college with work while being legally under the poverty line. And yet I am conservative. The notion that poor = liberal, and rich = conservative is beyond flawed.

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I am already rich where it counts. And what attitude would you be refering to?

Then why are you bitchin about it? Most people do not carp on the fact they have it made, instead they seek ways to correct what they do not. Yet you state you are "struggling" in one breath, and then you are "rich". Why? WHy accentuate something if it did not bother you?

And the attitude? The attitude that anyone better off than you has to be "gotten". Rich people have to be "gotten" as they can pay more so why not? It is called envy. And it never leads to self improvement, only more envy.

Come on its not talking points, its facts, look at the military how many rich people do youu have in the military? Very few. They dont need the kind of benefits that the military offers.

If it is facts, you should have no problem linking to it. But before you actually waste your time, I will tell you that it is not a fact. Indeed, it is just a myth. WHile you will find some rich people in the military, you will also find some that come from a poor background. But most that come from the middle class. And guess what? That pretty much mirrors the general population! The discredited rhetoric of the lunatic left is that the "poor" only have the option of the military to "escape" their life of poverty. The reality shows the democrat talking points to be nothing more than "Jimmy's World". And a lie.

The people (for the most part as there are always exceptions) that are serving in the military are doing so out of a sense of suty, honor and obligation, not because they think they are going to get rich quick. I think you owe them an appology.

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Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

Now I understand the conservatives don't believe the government has any right to thier money but we all enjoy the benefits of government services and so we should pay some taxes for them. I'm sure if we gave everyone the choice of paying taxes or not having any government services the majoirty would take the taxes. I don't believe they should take all your money but Democrats don't advocate that.

This is a strawman. This isn't about paying for services anymore. Having my labor taxes and that money simply given to someone else who is doing nothing in return is not a service.

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Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

while Liberals tend to be attracte dto Education, law and medicine. Buisness is of course the best way to make money ergo why conservatives tned to make more.

This has got to be the first time someone has asserted that doctors and lawyers don't make a lot of money.

Next time on looks at a county map of the US and sees red and blue counties, I think they'll conclude that your assertion is utter nonense. Rural voters are overwhelmingly conservative and overwhelmingly NOT business men.

If you want to speak broadly:

If only people who pay federal income taxes were allowed to vote, Republicans would have won every election since 1972.

Or more broadly, people who produce something tend to be conservatives, people who don't produce things tend to be liberal.

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if all doctors are liberals (I don't know what that has to do with anything, but that is the claim I am hearding) who do it just to help people, how come they charge us so damn much for their services?

I can barely bring myself to charge people for fixing their computer (my job) and often give them freebies, I couldn't bring myself to charge people for fixing their health. (and I am a conservative...)

The discredited rhetoric of the lunatic left is that the "poor" only have the option of the military to "escape" their life of poverty. The reality shows the democrat talking points to be nothing more than "Jimmy's World". And a lie.

That one always bothered me... not only are they lying about the facts claiming that everyone in the military is poor. The whole notion that the military is only there to be an escape for poor people who do NOT intend to fight for their country irks me.

because it insinuates that all militarymen are dishonest people defrauding the government and the populace. Soldiers are getting paid and taken care of in exchage for the promise protecting our freedoms and life at the risk of their lives. If some soldiers are just drawing a paycheck and will split at the first sign of trouble then it is better to not have them at all in the military (since they might disappear when depended on).

This is doubly insulting because of how many people are in the military exactly because they want to protect our lives and freedom, and how they risk their lives and sometimes die for those altruistic notions. Only to be made into a tool against everything they beleive in.

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Quoting Draginol,

comment 32

while Liberals tend to be attracte dto Education, law and medicine. Buisness is of course the best way to make money ergo why conservatives tned to make more.

=====

This has got to be the first time someone has asserted that doctors and lawyers don't make a lot of money.
Next time on looks at a county map of the US and sees red and blue counties, I think they'll conclude that your assertion is utter nonense. Rural voters are overwhelmingly conservative and overwhelmingly NOT business men.
If you want to speak broadly:
If only people who pay federal income taxes were allowed to vote, Republicans would have won every election since 1972.
Or more broadly, people who produce something tend to be conservatives, people who don't produce things tend to be liberal.

I tend to stay out of these arguments because I've been born and raised in Canada, so my political views are naturally more left than an average American's (our Conservative party is as right wing as your Democrat party).

This (admittedly broad) statement though is rather confusing. It seems that if this were read in your usual tone, it would be degrading to people who don't produce things. I'd just like to clarify: are you insinuating that only people who produce things can be considered successful, or valuable (or, for that matter, patriotic)? Or are you simply saying that people who are involved in goods production are conservative, and people who are involved in services are liberal?

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produce doesn't necessarily means manufacture...

He is saying that liberals tend to be unemployed. People who work for a living, tend to be conservative.

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Quoting taltamir,

comment 35

produce doesn't necessarily means manufacture...
He is saying that liberals tend to be unemployed. People who work for a living, tend to be conservative.

Actually, I think you may have meant that the unemployed tend to be liberals as I don't think most liberals are unemployed.

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Point (you mean HE meant not YOU meant). Although it wouldn't surprise me if most liberals were unemployed. (not poor! just unemployed)

With the major exception being... some methods of employment that still leave you producing nothing (many "actors" and "musicians" who have people to write their lines and edit their footage spring to mind). They also tend to be liberal (although technically employed)...

And I guess a business owner is not really employed anymore unless he/she is the CEO as well...

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Quoting taltamir,

comment 37

Point (you mean HE meant not YOU meant). Although it wouldn't surprise me if most liberals were unemployed. (not poor! just unemployed)
With the major exception being... some methods of employment that still leave you producing nothing (many "actors" and "musicians" who have people to write their lines and edit their footage spring to mind). They also tend to be liberal (although technically employed)...
And I guess a business owner is not really employed anymore unless he/she is the CEO as well...

Fair enough, perhaps I should have said "I think you may have meant that he meant..."

You are right in that you can be employed and be at a net unproductive, and that happens when one consumes more than they produce, and are as a result a drain. The only times this to me is justified is if this consumption of resources helps the person become even more productive later on, but this it often doesn't work out this way. I'll admit, someone with a liberal is more likely to fall into this category than a conservative.

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Hello:

First: Can we agree that dodging your taxes in unpatriotic? If we can agree then the opposite should be logically true...that to pay "your fair share" (whatever this actually means...more on this later) is at least your duty? To do ones duty for country and countrymen is surley patriotic.

As for what our fair share is...I think most of us will agree that they tax system is a mess. For example...someone wants to buy something at the store where I work...first that person was taxed when they earned their money (say payroll)...then it is taxed again (sales tax) as my boss makes it. Then it is taxed before I earn it in a paycheck (business income) it is taxed again as I earn it (payroll) and then again as I spend it (sales tax).

Finally the notion of trickle down economics is something like if you let the rich keep their money they will have more to invest and do smart rich people things with it. Recently we have had the notion of the stimlus package where in order to stimulate the economy they were forced to give us money back...which is just one way of looking at it, but it is more or less correct. I still think a flat tax is the best idea. Every dollar you make you owe X, Y, Z to the local, state and Federal govts. If you make 20,000 then you have to pay the tax on each of your 20,000 dollars. If you make a billion...you pay it on each dollar of the billion. maybe you get to keep 85% of your dollar...maybe its 75%...I am not sure how the tax amount would work out, however this would have stopped at whatever level filled the coffers or became unreasonable. I truly do not think this would hurt most people's motovation to make money.

Gosh, anyone actually read that?

Rev Phil

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First: Can we agree that dodging your taxes in unpatriotic?

Avoidance is not. Evasion is. WHat is dodging?

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i think dodging means evasion. except for when it means avoidance

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i think dodging means evasion. except for when it means avoidance

I love definite maybes.

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Hello:

Yes you understand, well mostly. Dodging I suppose would be both...and I see the difference between them as semantics. However I can understand how you might hold the position they are not the same thing. I agree that it sucks that some people more benifits than they pay in taxes while the rest of us just get suck with National Defence, Roads, Schools, Police, Those folks that might swing by and put out a fire for you...you know all that useless crap.

While I do not agree with how...I dunno maybe a quarter to a third to maybe half of the tax dollars are spent, however I also have yet to run for any public office or start and grassroots campaigns and so I still feel oblidiged to pay taxes...though really they just take taxes and the two of us settle up at the end of the year.

So yeah, how about a nice flat tax or maybe just a sales tax every time you buy or sell anything.

I hope this helps

Rev Phil

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tax avoidance: filing 1040 form instead of 1040EZ to properly report your dependents and get all the benefits that you deserve as a single mom with 4 children and no child support payments while working full time and living in poverty.

tax avoidance: reinvesting a large sum of your income for the year in purchasing a new factory (and hiring stuff for it) / renewable energy contract / or reinvesting in research with a tax incentive meant to spur investment in very specific things. Making it into a tax deductible expense that would make you more money in the future. (instead of just giving that money as dividends to the stock holders).

tax evasion: Lying about your income to pay less taxes.

tax evasion: Lying about the amount of employees you have and paying them under the table in cash to pay less taxes.

The two are completely different. You just "feel" they are the same because you assume that:

1. They only apply to rich people

2. The rich always deserve to pay more, and should not be allowed to take advantage of tax deduction that are meant to encourage them to do the right thing (such as reinvesting in specific things).

Both assumptions are dread wrong. There is nothing wrong with avoidance, in fact the whole POINT is to comply with federal incentives, when obama and mccain discussed tax incentives for research of renewable energy, they were discussing the creation of tax avoidance plans for money invested into those fields.

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I come from Mississippi, the most charitable state in the nation (I'm serious, go look it up) and so I really don't see why the government has the audacity to try to tell ME that I don't do enough to help the less fortunate. I live in a suburb of Jackson (the capital, and ghetto city) and seem to be constantly doing can drives, food drives, money drives, weekends helping the less fortunate, and seemingly anything else, all for the service of the less fortunate. I genuinely like it, and really want to know why a man who has probably never spent time helping the less fortunate unless it was somehow linked to his political schemes. Biden is a crook. Obama, on the other hand, is someone that I can at least agree with on some issues. I feel that we are about to go through some very trying times, and hope that he is prepared to lead us through them.

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1. you actually help the less fortunate, not the "unemployed by choice to be a parasite" which they want you to subsidize.

2. Thread necromancy? notice the last post was november 7th of 2008.

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