Hey accountant, 10% of 9 bucks is 90 cents.  Do you have to tithe in whole dollar amounts? 

No, but I feel led to.

if your church is dogmatically teaching you NEED to give 10% they are wrong.  Ask them to show you where in scripture this tithing is given to the church.  Like I said, if you want to get technical then we are to give 100% given the two examples by Christ himself. 

My pastor here recently went on a rabbit trail while delivering a sermon and it involved tithing.  I emailed him and questioned him further asking him to show me where Christians are to tithe.  In his sermon he quoted Malachi. 

He wrote back agreeing that tithing is not a NT concept and that if we examined the OT we would see about a 23.5% giving in all the Jews were to give back to God.   He admitted he didn't really want to broach that subject but got off and it wasn't part of his original sermon.  He, as well, as I believe 10% is a good amount or a good start even but we must be careful that we don't dogmatically assert this is set down in cement.  In fact, if anything it threatens to limit our giving thinking we're ok with 10% when God may, in fact, be calling us to give more like the widow or rich young ruler. 

Always have been.  I like to say that when I find out where Physics and Philosophy intersect, I'm going to build my house there.

I'm going to take another tack here.  Someone mentioned "giving money to God" and this is the problem I have.  If I send money to someone directly in need, is that giving money to God?  Not according to the churches.  The only thing that qualifies as "giving money to God" in the context of tithing is "giving money to the church."

And objectively, regardless of what many people claim to "know," you can't give money to God.  You can give it to a person who claims to represent God, but you can't give it to God.  He has no bank account or routing number, and if you COULD give money to God, wouldn't he likely say "Why are you giving me this?  What am I gonna do?  Trick out my angels with those new Holy9000 Wings they've all had their eyes on?  Maybe some platinum halos?

God doesn't need money.  People do.  But instead of the religious just saying "Hey, the other humans on this planet need money, so give it to us and we'll decide who gets it and what the best use for it is," they invoke the name of someone they think will have a greater effect on making the moneychange take place.  "Hey...GOD needs your money."  And why don't they say that?  because put that way, everyone would say "Wait a second...I can decide who needs this just as well as you can...why do I need us to waste TWO stamps on this transaction?  I'll just take the address that YOU would put on the envelope and put it on my own envelope.  That saves work for the mail carriers too.  They don't have to deliver the same envelope twice to get the job done. 

When someone invokes God's name in order to extract money from people, it's a direct step down the Highway of Guilt, and that is ALL it is and ALL it accomplishes.  If you don't give, you're letting God down.  BS.

Ock -- utter brilliance, as per usual.

Well, if you give more than 10% it's not a tithe anymore.  It's now an offering.   Tithe = 10%, by definition.  Offerings are great too!

[quote]So are "donations"  that can be recycled, allowing one to take credit for multiple acts of charity while utterly ignoring the fact that the original donation ceased to BE an act of charity the moment repayment was requested.  (Even if that repayment was freely offered.)[quote]

You know LW, I never understood the concept of donating to get a tax deduction. I thought the purpose of donating was for the person donating to give from themselves to help others. Giving a tax deduction basically means, to me, you only gave some rather than all that money you donated and expected tax payers to pich up the rest. Can any person truly claim to have given, say, $5000 to charity if they got, say, $2000 back in a tax deduction meaning tax payers actually gave $2000 while the donor only really gave $3000?

Now that's a statement that may deserve it's own article.

Consider it done.

Not quite Ock.  When Christians say they are giving their money to God they don't mean necessarily giving to a church. When I see a person in need and slip them a little something I am giving it to God.  Jesus said when you do for one of his, you do for him.  He said when we feed, clothe and visit one in prison we are feeding, clothing and visiting him as well. 

Besides all this motive is the key.  For an atheist to give to another it's not giving to God because he doesn't believe in God.  He's simply giving for any variety of reasons and feeling good about it.  When a Christian who loves and believes in God the motive and understanding is that he/she is giving it back to God who gave it to them in the first place. 

First of all your numbers are very skewed.  Second of all, there is nothing wrong with claiming your deduction and for a very good reason.

If I give say, $5,000 to a charity, a church or other non-profit and am able to claim it, I should.  Why not?  The church or charity  still got their $5,000 and I get a little bit back (not nearly what you put) and this enables me to give more because I have more in my pocket.

Otherwise you're saying, don't claim it and let the government have it....and we all know how that game works. 

No, I'd rather be in charge of giving my money to whom I wish rather than let the politicians line their pockets with it. 

If motive is the key, then it doesn't matter who the money is given to if it's given for the right motive, and it doesn't matter the religious affiliation (or complete lack of one) of the person giving it.  That is if you truly believe that motive is the key.

Well, here's why not.  What you're doing, in effect, is forcing the government to give a percentage of that 5,000 dollars to your choice of charity.  I'll make up some pseudo math to illustrate.

You give 5,000 dollars, take the deduction, and the government gives you, say, 10 dollars.  That is the same thing as you giving 4,990 dollars and the government giving 10.  What's wrong with that?  Answer the question "Where does that 10 dollars the government gives originate?" and you'll have your answer.  It doesn't originate with you...it originates with all taxpayers, some of whom might not want to give their billionth of a cent to the charity you see as worthy.

Now do I really care about a billionth of a cent?  No, I'm just talking principles.

Let's put it another way that you will more likely find understandable.   Let's say I give 100,000,000 dollars to the "Friends of Atheists and the People Who Support Them" charity.  The government takes on the burden of 200,000 dollars of that and returns it to me.  Some of that 200,000 came out of YOUR taxes, KFC.  You cool with that?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40 (KJV)

Actually, I think you are both wrong.  Giving to others with the spirit of charity is Godly, the scriptures don't say whether it is to a church, individual or really even define "needy".  It also doens't qualify the giver or not, so yet, even when an atheist is giving in the spirit of charity, it is still "done unto me".

We talk a lot about why we give to who and when.  More to the point, we talk about when we don't give and why.  People say they won't give to the person on the street who asks for money because "they'll spend it on drugs or alcohol"... others say they won't give to a church because it's "just lining the pockets of the church leaders".

We are responsible for our own actions, not the actions of others.  So, giving to either, in the spirit of charity is good for the atheist and believer alike, what the recipient does with the money doesn't change the charitiable act.

My wife and I give 10% of our income to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.  There are other donations we make at the same time for specific charitable purpose.  We also have our list of organizations we donate to which have nothing to do with church at all.

I know that the LDS church uses the money to build church houses, temples and other bulidings, take care of administrative expenses and other things.  I also know that tithing money is used for non ecumenical purposes, such as sponsoring the BYU system, the polynesian center in Hawaii, which includes the pay and benefits packages for the faculty and administration.  But  he General Authorities of the LDS Church (who have been entrusted with the money) will be judged on how they used the money, not me.

By the same token, the Red Cross isn't a religious organization, but when I give to them, it is still in the spirit of charity, so it is still "unto me" (to quote Christ).   Once in awhile there are instances when Red Cross officials or representatives have been caught defrauding the Red Cross.  Does that change the spirit in which the donations were given?  No. 

I don't think it means we have to voluntarily be taken advantage of, and we were given judgement and discernment, so I also think we are expected to use them when it comes to donating... even in the spirit of charity.

[/quote]

but who is this King speaking to? Go back to v33 and onward for your answer....   "And He shall set the sheep on his right hand but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say to them on his right hand........Then shall the righteous answer him saying, Lord when saw we thee hungry and fed thee? or thirsty and gave thee drink?  When saw we thee a stranger and took thee in? or naked and clothed thee?" 

Now contrast that with what he said earlier by those who said they did many wonderful works yet he tells them he doesn't know them....Matthew 7:22-23. 

It all comes down to the motive of the heart and God is the one who reads our hearts.  We either give because we love God and realize we are giving to him or we give for a variety of other reasons such as it makes us feel good, makes us look good among our peers or gives us a name on some building somewhere etc.   When it comes to God, motive is very important. 

Of course everything belongs to God so in some aspect when we give to charity or fulfill a need we are doing for God but there are many out there that would cringe at that saying they are NOT givng to God, they are only filling a need they see to fill. 

[quote]Well, here's why not. What you're doing, in effect, is forcing the government to give a percentage of that 5,000 dollars to your choice of charity. I'll make up some pseudo math to illustrate.

Well good then.  I don't have a problem with that.  But I don't see it that way.  I see it that the government is giving to me, not my charity.  So then by taking that extra money (that was mine in the first place)  I get back I can once again fund another charity but it was my money in the first place, not the government's. 

When I start out say with an income of $75,000 and the government takes a portion of that reducing my amount, they are taking my money, I'm not taking theirs.  So if I take my own portion and give it to a charity, I beat them at their own game and instead of them picking out the charity of their choice,  I pick my own.