I think Random should show as random at the start up screen and the other demi's shown what they are just like warcraft3 the frozen throne. It is inherantly hard (if even possible) to master every single demi so your disadvantage for not know what you get is that your oppoenent should not know what you get either. Makes total sense to me. If someone is good enough to use every single demi in the game then I say they should have the (imo small) advantage of you having to spot them on the field, you should easily see them as soon as they start attacking your auto generated creeps running accross the battlfield so I don't see a huge issue with this.

Whoops double post, deleted this one.

On a personal note... To me.. Playing 'random' has always been 'I don't care what race I get because I just love to play. Not.. 'I've mastered every class and in going random I'm going to crush you whatever you play.' - And if that is the case.. then why should there be an advantage for these certain players who have excelled?

In Ranked matches.. no person should know who the other player is.
There should be no telling who the other team is playing - Like in CoH when the match loads.. you find who everyone is. There should be no scoreboard which tells faction.

In a Custom match the option should be available in game to hide all faction choices by the opposing team or to everyone.

I've always seen random as an entertainment choice, not a tactical choice, it getting an advantage or someone who chooses their demigod doesn't make any sense. Especially when you consider they've said for ranked games everyone will start on a level playing field at the beginning of the match. I know their comment applied to Demigod's themselves but why should it be limited to that.

I can really only answer this by comparing it to DOTA's system. Perhaps the heroes aren't as well balanced as we like (depends who you ask), but in any case, if you pick a hero, it means you are selecting a skill set and in many cases, one that you do better with then with other heroes. However, if you random, you are opening yourself up to whatever fate may give you even if it is with a hero you don't know very well, or maybe aren't as good with (balanced or not). To choose your hero it costs about 30% of your starting gold (with 5 players you start with about 850 gold and picking costs about 250 gold if I remember correctly). You are essentially paying for the right to select your hero of choice. If you give up this right and choose to go -random instead, then you retain your gold.

But in Demigod your not buying your hero. And it still doesn't give a decent reason why picking random should give you an advantage over your enemy.

I think the idea is that it's impossible to master every demigod, so going random should offer some negligible advantage to match the advantage of being familiar with a certain playstyle.

So you should get a dice roll chance that you get a demigod you're good with and have this hidden from your opponents? No, you shouldnt. Just because you may be good with some and bad with others doesn't balance out the fact that if you get a good one you just started with a sizeable lead. If you're worried about it just pick one you're good with and call it a day.

In Dota, the "lead" is really very small in the case you get a good hero and would balance out for when you don't get such a "good" hero (good being relative to the player's tastes).

In any case its simply a small incentive to branch out and try new demigods.

So what your telling me is that i have to play more then 1 game with my enemy for the negative choice to possible take effect? And how exactly does that make the current match balanced?

Fine, whatever. You wanted a reason why picking random should give an advantage. Obviously you'll never be convinced regardless of what is written.

Again, the advantage is incredibly small and encourages diversity. Go ahead and be one of those players that picks the same hero everytime. No one is making you do otherwise. This option has worked well in other games, is not overbalanced, and provides a nice element to the game.

Your opinion is what it is. Mine is that I really appreciate the small reward for going random given because instead of choosing a hero, I let fate decide.

I never said i'd pick the same guy everytime, i just feel that if i stick to heroes i'm best with my enemy should not get an edge by going random. If the outcome of the match really matters why leave it to chance?

Hmm... seems that work was getting to me in that last post of mine. Sorry if I came off a little harsh. All I've been trying to say is that the reward is a nice mechanic in DOTA that I would like to see in Demigod. Obviously it shouldn't make or break the game with whether you go random or not.

Are you saying people who random are stupid because they're leaving their fate to chance?

Maybe they just don't give a fuck about the outcome of a match in a videogame. (no mean to put words in your mouth, just trying to clarify.

Did you see me include the word stupid in any of my posts in this thread? Nothing I've said here has included an attack on the intellect of anyone who might pick random.

If however they "don't give a fuck" about the outcome of the game then them not having an advantage is irrelevant, as in your argument. Either everyone can see what everyone is or no one can see who everyone is. Really all i care about this applying to is ranked matches, but for the sake of conformity between ranked and custom it should be a uniform decision.

Fascinating subject, though the thread's direction is taking an ill turn at the moment. But hopefully, with some good infusion of commentary we can get things back on track.

The Evolution of the Thread so far

We've seen a growing tension between those who would prefer Random within the game, and those who would like to take a step into a direction where things can be different. I imagine that the game's designers still enjoy the functionality of Random and probably will not be one to part with it. Though there are reasonable points which should be addressed, and perhaps some new options as well? I've a feeling Random will still be in the game no matter what, so perhaps the thread should focus on different elements?

Random, Automatch, and Ranked.

Inevitably, there will be a Ranked portion of the game for those hardcore folks who want to achieve a measure of their skill level in solid 'number' form which they can display. Often there are records of each player as well, telling the world their favorite races, losses, wins, etc.. I think this should be the focus of the discussion in fact, and still surprisingly remains on subject to the due vagueness of the thread's title "Hide opponents Type".

When it comes to Automatching and ranked matches, I actually do believe that no information should be shown what so ever. Ranked should be very different from casual play, and should promote a different level of seriousness. Random, and any other ability to see what your enemy will be prior to a match will makes Ranked a most welcome and desirable change. Focusing greatly upon skill instead of the common knowledge of A Player's Race is best countered by B Player's Race, if C Units are used against D Units, and E Abilities against F Abilities. I feel the extra element of 'scouting', even for an Assassin whom is in essence a walking scout nightmare - should do well to change the pace.

Hiding The Record Board, and Why?

To be honest, there is an odd thing happening these days in many RTS games. A Player's Record board is being used in a fashion that is rather uncalled for, and disheartening. Normally, the boards have been useful to view a player's stats as they enter the game. Naturally you can see whether or not they are good, etc. But it has come to my understanding that Demigod will automatically allocate players to their given skill levels, with this in mind the Personal Score Board should be considerably private, and here is why.

As of late, when a game has grown aged and well used over the years. Players become increasingly cruel to their fellow players. If you are new and want to enjoy the game after it has been out for so long, consider yourself excluded from the Multiplayer Online spectrum. Long time players desire to play with long time players, and when someone new joins in they will view there stats board and see how many games they've played. If they haven't played X Number of Online games or has X Number of Online victories, they'll be booted and unable to play.

People are forced to have to train up their stats in their personal score board by doing "Comp Stomps". They will have to do several of these to fill in some meat in their boards, getting about 50 games and over 80% victory record just to be able to play normally. It's a vastly ignorant and nasty side track that happens as the game gets older. Of course when a game is 'new', this is not a problem. Yet it is not exactly a calculated element that is taken into account when the game is in production since it happens so far, far down the road.

So the a player's Score Board should be personal, perhaps only accessible via a Friend's List if anyone else wants to view it. Players will still be moderated by an automatic skill level allocator. I feel that this is a fine way in taking a step towards Hiding an Opponent's Type, and increasing the element of surprise.

Example: Warhammer 40k Dawn of War. A player joins, you view their records.. Oh, he plays Space Marines 99.9% of the time. Another SM whore... boot.

Random Assassin and Random General

Since Random will likely be in the game, it would also be nice to have a feature which would further limit the guessing. In stead of completely removing Random, you simply add a few more features. You can select from a menu of what you want to play, or select Random Assassin, Random General, or just Random (All). To compliment the prior comments in my post, naturally no one would be able to see you choose any of these elements in Ranked Mode. In Ranked Mode, all you should see are your challenger's names.

Comp Stomps are pretty isolated to dawn of war online multiplayer from my experience, and i don't think it is necessary to keep someone's record private.

Depending on how the game launches, they could always keep the external method. So that your record does not display in game(as custom games would be P2P like supcom??) but when your out of a game you can look up ranks, profile stats, etc.

To my experience.. People can't read for shit.. so when you even host a game that says 'good players only,' idiots join just because there is a game to join. A record of your previous games is neither here nor there. Players will always fall into a certain demographic.. and they will choose who to hang out with and figure out where they are welcome.

That being said... It's a personal choice for players to be assholes. Eventually players will figure out over time which people are good and which are not good just by being part of the community. So with or without a record board.. this sort of thing will never change.

All the more reason to change the system.

His point was changing the system is going to have no effect so leave it alone.