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The Great Skill Debate

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The Great Skill Debate

from Demigod Forums
There has already been a huge amount of discussion in separate threads concerning the skill style that Demigod should use for its Demigods.  From what I can gather, there seems to be two lines of thought:

Warcraft 3 style skill tree:  This focuses on a small group of skills, possibly with a rather large usage environment (by this I mean that the skill is depended on what it is used on, i.e. AoE for minions, direct damage for Demigods)

Diablo 2 style skill tree: A large range of skills where you have to focus on one or two of the three trees available to be effective.  Skill synergy between certains skills within the same tree apply (by this I mean that putting points into one skill can provide benefits to another skill down the track)

Now there is, I believe, legitimate reasons to go with either of these skill trees.  For example, the Warcraft 3 style explicitly defines the type of demigod that will be created, with item usage providing the customising factor.  This helps to (in sum instances) streamline the game play as you are not spending too much time in the skill tree choosing as well as having multitudes of skills to remember to use at any one time.

The Diablo 2 style provides more customisation, meaning that no two demigod will be the same in any one game (even if they are the same Demigod), without the out the need for particular items.

I could probably go on about both styles, but suffice to say, both styles are not wrong, it's more of a personal thing.

Something I would like to throw into the ring is the skill tree style that is implemented in Titan Quest.  I found that they really struck the nail of the head with skill synergy in that game.  For each tree, they have 3-4 major skills that are used throughout the game, which are improved by either putting more points into that skill, or selecting a more advanced skill that leverages off the existing skill.  For me, that is the shining light for skill trees that I have seen in games to date.

So in a way, the Titan Quest style is an amalgamation of the Warcraft 3 and Diablo 2 skill styles.

Anyway, on to the debate, what are your thoughts on the type of skill system that should be used in Demigod and why (please at least put in one sentence as to the why of your selection, even if it is repeating what others have said).

Also, if you have a different idea, put that down instead.

As can be seen in my post, my choice goes to Titan Quest style...  :D
116,321 views 79 replies
Reply #51 from Demigod Forums Top
I think we are missing a point here.

From what I have understood, there will be 2 types of experience points: the experience that you will get in the actual map/battle by killing creatures/demigods , and the experience you will receive after the match ( by winning or by loosing ; i guess the winners will get more xp ). It must be cleared if I will select just one demigod when I will first create the account, demigod with whom I will play through out all the matches, or if I will select a demigod per match. That issue is not cleared yet.

If I will have just a demigod per account, that demigod must have 2 different skill trees: the skill tree that I will use in every battle and I will have to learn the skills all over again, and a skill tree from which I will learn skills that will affect my demigod through out all the battles, skill points that I will receive by lvl-ing with experience gained after winning a match.

In a nut shell, there will be 2 separated levels : arena levels and the " general levels " . I don't know if I am able to share my point of view here ...

Example : I have a level 53 demigod. Although I have 53 skill points invested in the second skill tree ( skills that affect me in all my battles ) , at the beginning of a new match, I will be lvl 1 and I will gain again xp to reach lvl 25 on the battlefield and learn the skills from the first skill tree all over again.

So : we will have 2 separated skill trees. From here I guess that the ingame skills ( the skills from the first tree ) will still count a lot, although I have a lvl 53 demigod and have distributed 53 skill points in all sorts of passives, auras, permanent buffs . I guess that those skills will work within a min and max area, area which works with small numbers.

Example : I have maxed my Heighten Senses which gives me 10% chance of inflicting a crushing blow .
This skill will be from the second tree and will affect me permanently.

More easily, imagine that your demigod has skills and talents. Skills are used and learned all over again with every battle, where talents affect you permanently.


I hope I managed to better explain my point of view. And I think I cannot accomplish that because it isn't very clear to me either.

Hope someone can shed some light over this.

Yours truly,
Reply #52 from Demigod Forums Top
As far as we know:

The permanent leveling demigod scheme will be an optional thing for custom games, where as (supposedly) in ranked games everyone will start on an equal playing field, as well as in most custom games.

In this thread I believe we are talking about the per game skills.
Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #53 from Demigod Forums Top
Yes the persistent Demigod thing is tied only to custom games, and I wouldn't see them limiting 1 persistent demigod to an account but probably tracks the progress of all Demigods.
Reply #54 from Demigod Forums Top
I believe the "persistent" stuff will only be for castle upgrades.. I don't know.

And it's not something in ranked.


It's something new the devs decided to work on so we don't have much information on how it'll work.
Reply #55 from Demigod Forums Top
I want a demigod to have a game developer skill to neither confirm or deny the existance of even a game called demigod. But the skill we all want is the ability to release the beta NOW!!!
Reply #56 from Demigod Forums Top
Heh! I stole the "Confirm or deny" placard from Scathis.

A couple more answers:

* You choose your Demigod each match. Each account has access to all the Demigods you've unlocked.
* A Demigod has access to four skills at any one time and the action bar has a slot for each(You do not customize it). Your inventory also has room for three(currently) activatable items, such as scrolls, potions, wands, orbs, trinkets, etc. So, total abilities you can activate at any one time is currently at seven.
* While there are seven activatable slots, there are three more buttons currently on the HUD. Bonus points to whomever can correctly guess what they are.


Mike "Tyo" Marr
Demigod Lead Designer
Reply #57 from Demigod Forums Top
Skill selection, item/unit buying, menu?

P.S. thanks for the info, and how do you 'unlock' a demigod? campaign?

P.S. 2.0 the fact one can unlock demigods seems to imply there are going to be quite a few, can you give us any estimates?
Reply #58 from Demigod Forums Top
Hmm. Toughie. Possibilities:

1. Open skills window
2. Toggle score window?
3. Game menu?
4. Buy items?

Edit: curse you mooey, and your inhuman speed too! :P
Reply #59 from Demigod Forums Top
Legerdemain comes out with a score of 1. Next!
Reply #60 from Demigod Forums Top
soo comparing my post and Legerdemain, Toggle score window! Hmmmm, select demigod?
Reply #61 from Demigod Forums Top
You can level up all the skills but only use 4 at a time then?
I'm kind of confused there.

Why not just have a bar of all the skills going down the middle when there is so few, and not have a whole separate window you open?

Guess I have to see it.
Reply #62 from Demigod Forums Top
* You choose your Demigod each match. Each account has access to all the Demigods you've unlocked.*

Does this mean, as i think someone said, that we will have to complete the SP to have access to all the Demigods?

Reply #63 from Demigod Forums Top
I think that in mp, we will have to play gradually with all demigods. As we gain points/experience, we will be able to play with different ones.

But I don't think that this will be such a great idea. I do hope that it isn't.
Reply #64 from Demigod Forums Top
First on the board!

1. Score window
2. Given that this is the Supreme Commander engine, a button with the same purpose as the one in Supreme Commander that lets you toggle the minimap.
3. Show/hide chat?
Reply #65 from Demigod Forums Top
You can level up all the skills but only use 4 at a time then?

I'm kind of confused there.Why not just have a bar of all the skills going down the middle when there is so few, and not have a whole separate window you open?

Guess I have to see it.


I think what your missing is the fact passives and synergy 'skills' aren't on this bar. For example a passive poison ability for unclean beast wouldn't be on it. Or a synergy skill for torch bearer that increases all his fire damage isn't either.

And for generals, unlocking units, unit buffs, auras, all things that aren't on the bar.
Reply #66 from Demigod Forums Top
1. The Easy button.
2. The Panic button for when the Easy button doesn't work.
3. The Alt-F4 button.
Reply #67 from Demigod Forums Top
1.Score window
2.Select Demigod
3.Ability window (for neutral stuff)
Reply #68 from Demigod Forums Top
Tyo broke the thread! ;o
Reply #69 from Demigod Forums Top
innociv, let's get back on track then. With my last post on this thread I was trying to present an idea with an aim to add more strategic depth to the skill selection, while keeping skill use (read micro-management) fairly simple. I did not assume your idea was that all direct damage ranged spells should grant AoE at a certain level.

While Tyo's description of the Torchbearer's skill set is not what I would have preferred it still seems pretty good from what I can gather. I wonder if when you are Reliving the immolation, you have to sacrifice access to the non-Reliving the immolation active skills so that you can use the Reliving the immolation active skills. I ponder this as Tyo indicates you only have access to 4 skills at any one time.
Reply #70 from Demigod Forums Top
I wonder if when you are Reliving the immolation, you have to sacrifice access to the non-Reliving the immolation active skills so that you can use the Reliving the immolation active skills.


That's exactly right.
Reply #71 from Demigod Forums Top
Yeah I believe that's the very idea.
Reply #72 from Demigod Forums Top
You can have 4 (I'm assuming activate-able) skills on your bar at once. You said TB has 4 non immolated and 3 immolated wheres the other 1 come in? (or 3 for that matter if passives are on this 'bar')


Man , i think it s normal Toch bearer have 7 active skills and every others heroes 4

Torch bearer have a Morph capacity
So you have something like
_____________________________
Skill 1 => AOE Fire
Skill 2 => Blast Fire
Skill 3 => Ultimate Fire
Skill 4 => Swap Fire<=>Ice
_____________________________
Skill 5 => AOE Ice
Skill 6 => Blast Ice
Skill 7 => Ultimate Ice
Skill 4 => Swap Ice<=>Fire

Else , we can imagine the torch bearer is , by default , The one in flame and the 4th Spell have a Morph Timer
Something like : ( For the next 30 seconds , Torch bearer throw away his Hot temper and Make feel his opponents his Cold Revenge ) Cooldown 2mn
Reply #73 from Demigod Forums Top
Tyo! You haven't scored our second round of guesses. :(
Reply #74 from Demigod Forums Top
Official scorekeeeper response do to over active posting score is reduced by 1 now you are at ZERO
Reply #75 from Demigod Forums Top
Hmm, a quick review reveals that the score remains the same. Although mOoEy gets half a point for guessing that there is a way to select your Demigod(it's not a button though in the traditional sense though!)