Which explains why I can't win with the advent perhaps...

Why not have both?

I mean surely you can have 30-40 Demigods with 2-5 skilltree's each. It'll just atke some time to add!

Loved this hands on

Making the wait for the beta hard :p

Diablo number of skills would be too many..

More than 6-7 would be too many.

I think there is going to be 5. If 1-3 more where added later on in a content patch that'd be neat, though.

Well, even 8 would be okay. Encouraging meaningful choices is a good idea, and if there is going to be a permanent leveling system in one of the modes, it is better if the leveling thing is more developed than DotA.

More would be too much, though, I agree. 4 would be too little.

The thing is diffrent demigods could have diffrent numbers of skills at diffrent places in the skill 'tree', I just hope it's possible to get all of them at one time.

Example:

a hero might have 3 skills they can get a first level, one might have 2 levels, another 4 and the last only 1 level but is a prereq for higher skills

while another demigod has 4 1 level skills to choose from

but then again thats just my hope!

Personally I can't stand the kagillion skills you have in WOW. 8 is alot less, but I would hope that at least half of those are passive. Having to manage more than 4 activable skills is a mess. Sure it may distinguish the ranks by skill, but don't forget there may be activable items too!

Personally, I'd like to see every Demi with 2 core activable skills. Then maybe 1 or 2 more situation/ultimate activables, and then manage the items as best you can. Fill up the rest of the slots with passive skills or auto casts (blah). Anymore than that will cause you to pull your hair out and the lesser skills will just go unused.

Boo to 40+ demi's. Dota has a large community that is constantly churning out new hero ideas. Sometimes, there's a really good proposal so they add it. They can't cut any of the existing Demi's because the group that plays that hero (and every hero has fans [except maybe Keeper of the light]) would complain. Dota has evolved into many characters. Earlier versions had fewer heroes to choose from.

To illustrate, think back on Street Fighter 2. There were only 8 selectable characters with 4 bosses (unlockable in some versions). The game was fun, you could play through a brief story mode with each character. Every character was built to be able to take on just about any other character (some exploits, but thats beyond the point). It didn't take too long to get a feel for what each character could do, how to play, and how to counter.

Now think on Marvel vs Capcom. I think there were about 70 characters. Sure, it may be fun for variety, but how long did it take to learn all of their skills? Maybe you just pick a handful and learn them, but you would still need to know what the other characters could do so you can counter them properly. IMO, Streetfighter 2 was the better game.

I'd say give us whatever Demi's you have ready for the beta, be that 4 or 12. Demi like dota, will have up to 5v5 on the field, so at least 10 unique Demi's will be needed for release. To give everyone some options, I see around 20 for release. After that, either patch or add-ons could slowly introduce more Demi's. I think they will lose flavor after 40 though.

my 2 cents

No no no, it will cause you to pull out your hair and the lesser skills will just go unused by you

Care to add more to your argument? Examples, reasoning, logic? hell, just something that takes a stand.

:crickets:

Thats why I say I would enjoy 30-40 demis at release as opposed to 12-16 like most people want. (meaning I agree with your post)

Well that's fairly easy to understand. It just means it's only your opinion and I'm far from sharing it.

As for your example, well, Street Fighter 2 was fun to play 15 years ago. Today, the gameplay is way too simple (too few different attacks) and is rapidly boring.
Moreover, you say it wasn't too long to get a feel of what each character could do (in sf2), well I think in wow it's not that difficult to learn what to expect from other classes. Of course, it takes a bit more time than with sf2 but it's far from beeing as difficult as you say.

At least this is my opinion and this is why I hope we won't have a single button mashing game.

Thanks for tearing down my post/opinion. Its fine that you don't agree with my opinion, but what is it that you would prefer? Alot of Demi's at release time? Each demi with a unique complex skill tree? Each Demi with a bar across the bottom with 12 different skills that you can spam away with?

The games I listed were meant as an example of a game type where too many options did nothing to make the game funner and instead hurt the game. Sure, its my opinion, but I believe it illustrates the point.

I believe that you are right and wrong with WOW. What happens is most people use the same skills over and over again (even though they have 40+) when doing arena because that is what works. So, no it doesn't take too long to figure out what one class is going to do, however, to really know all of their abilities you either have to play that class many hours, or do alot of reading on the forums. Regardless, there are several skills that will not get used, or if used, very rarely.

Personally, I don't think there's too much point arguing how many skills each DemiGod will have as I think the developers already have a pattern down and are not going to deviate from it until feedback comes back from the beta. Currently it appears that each Demigod has relatively few skills.

As to the # of Demi's at release, it will all depend on how quickly the team can develop an idea, get it to work in gameplay, and then model and animate it. I think getting 40+ more Demi's between now and release is over their limit. Especially if they have to give each demi a complex unique set of skills and abilities.

Finally, gameplay in this game will be decided by skill in using your Demi's abilities, what items you choose to purchase, and your actions on the battlefield. Even if each Demi only had 1 ability (which we know they do not), there is far more to the game then "single button mashing".

I stand by my first post. 40+ Demi's is a stretch. Complex skill/ability trees are not needed.

Amen!

Not only is that number of Playable characters awefully high for the Small art team Demigod has. But it is always a very big challenge to create skills that differ enough for each Character. if you have 5-8 skills per demigod and 40 demigods you've got 200-320 skills you need to create, and many of those will most likely overlap.

Fewer is currently better(obviously there is such a thing as too few, but i don't think we need fear that)

However, there may be one way to make 40+ Demigods a logical option for even a small Art team as GasPowered has at their disposal, and still provide a relatively low amount of skills, and in a technical fashion, low of amount of Demigods. (40+, but still low?)

What I mean isn't exactly simple either, but at least it's easier that making individual demigods up to 40 (which is an idea I don't really support). But perhaps once I see the game, I could judge whether or not what it's really worth it or not -- and what I mean is this: A Custom Demigod. But not fully custom to an insane degree, you can pick a base skillset such as the Queen of Thorns for instance, and then have access to various plant like parts you can use for a few different stock animation types. In essence, you could make a King of Thorns or a large vine beast (like taking the Uncean Beast's model and animations with new skins, but dramatically less power).

The downside is that is can really confuse people as to what your Demigod is capable of, and like was stated before on Odit's post the 12 standard versus the 70 in MvC is a big difference. I'm sure the developers may not want to take this road, but who knows? Perhaps some personal tweaks may be what people are looking for in a Demigod.

If anything, I'd be extremely pleased with just being able to change a few things to the things I can play. Like for isntance with the Unclean Beast, giving him a long, nasty tail (that doesn't physically attack though) that gives a more reptilian appearance to math his boney head. I'm not asking for a full change in the concept, but what if I could make some custom changes to the Demigod myself to make it more of a 'personal' thing. Would get pretty old, pretty quick if I went up agaisnt Demigods who looked exactly likely me, spare a minor color change (red versus blue).

We'll just have to see what is done and what can be done once Beta begins.

wow that read got me excited for the beta

On the issue of not enough skills, I could give you a list of at least 500 dota/demigod/aos style skills, and each one would have a diffrent purpose and tactical use. On top of that even if the same skill is used by two people, the other skills will make the hero play completely diffrent. So skills is most defiantly not a constraining factor.

hehe, almost like taking the creature you made in spore onto a Demigod battlefield eh?

I wouldn't say Spore, as that is certainly a bit of an extreme! But in Spore there were many 'Snap On' parts. Perhaps it would be interesting if all the models had 'snap on' areas you could customize. And since the game will allow you to "trick out" your castle through achievements, why not your Demigod as well?

If they ever do make it 8 skills, which i'm sure it wouldn't be that way at release, just maybe added as a content patch either, I would hope the max level doesn't change so you still can only choose from 4 or 5 of them to be maxed.

I don't think they would add more skills... That would mean changing the maximum level... More demigods with new skills yes, but adding more skills doesn't work in my mind...

No it doesn't mean higher max level.

It just means a higher number of choices since you couldn't max them all.

Which something I'm hoping they don't do personally:

A) It makes it so eventually every demigod can do everything, every demigod can be a good a tanker as a dpser, to the point where one might as well just pick based on looks alone..
Distracts as it takes time to read every skill and then decide.
C) Makes the game less noob friendly.
D) And why not just add another demigod?

E) leads to real choices
F) creates more diverse gameplay

I agree with this.

@ Mooey:
It seems that there will be plenty of single player options to get used to the available skills. And I doubt you will be able to "make it so eventually every demigod can do everything" because there will probably be a level cap and/or the game won't last long enough to get every skill.

Even if you can eventually get every skill, you'd still have to make a skill choice based on your strategy at each level up. You won't instantly go from level 1 to level 50 (or whatever the level cap is).