blogic

Join Date 05/2004

A Tale of Two Countries: How Bush Helped Make the Flu Crisis

Bush supporters have tried to argue that the Bush administration bears no responsiblity for this year's critical shortage of flu vaccine.

This is from Medical News Today:

Last August UK officials, with the same information the US officials had, decided something had to be done in case the Chiron supplies, 14% of UK supplies, went belly up. The US officials decided to believe Chiron and gamble 48% of their supplies on an assurance that everything would turn out fine despite some worrying set backs.

When October 5th arrived, the British authorities pulled the plug on the Chiron, Liverpool, supplies. US authorities were caught out - nothing had been done in advance, the country had allowed itself to get into this situation.

[snip]

Even without this crisis, the UK authorities have always had a situation where they can fall back on six or seven suppliers that have been pre-approved by UK authorities. The US, on the other hand, only has two - one of which has let them down. Had the US had more pre-approved suppliers, had the US started to do something about this problem last August when alarm bells were ringing, had the US…….? This is what many Americans are now starting to ask.

The American Health Dept saw no reason last August to do anything, says their spokesman Tony Jewell. Americans hear him and ask, so why did the British have a reason, you both worked on the same information, didn't you?

America's only other supplier, Aventis, may have upped supplies if they had been asked in advance - say last August - said an Aventis spokesman. But no one from the US approached them on this matter, not till after Oct 5.

That really sums things up. Two governments were working with the same information -- that there were potential problems with the flu vaccine supply. One government handled it well, while the Bush administration displayed incompetence. As they have done on the Iraq quagmire, you can see the Bush administration refusing to take responsibility for this, blaming everybody but themselves for the choices made by the Bush adminstration. As flu season approaches, we can only hope seniors and children won't die because of this administration's poor judgment.

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Why Has the Flu Crisis Hit America, and Not the UK?

By: blogic
Posted: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 on The Tide Goes Out
Message Board: Politics
Bush supporters have tried to argue that the Bush administration bears no responsiblity for this year's critical shortage of flu vaccine.

This is from :
Last August UK officials, with the same information the US officials had, decided something had to be done in case the Chiron supplies, 14% of UK supplies, went belly up. The US officials decided to believe Chiron and gamble 48% of their supplies on an assurance that everything would turn out fine despite some worrying set backs.

When October 5th arrived, the British authorities pulled the plug on the Chiron, Liverpool, supplies. US authorities were caught out - nothing had been done in advance, the country had allowed itself to get into this situation.

[snip]

Even without this crisis, the UK authorities have always had a situation where they can fall back on six or seven suppliers that have been pre-approved by UK authorities. The US, on the other hand, only has two - one of which has let them down. Had the US had more pre-approved suppliers, had the US started to do something about this problem last August when alarm bells were ringing, had the US…….? This is what many Americans are now starting to ask.

The American Health Dept saw no reason last August to do anything, says their spokesman Tony Jewell. Americans hear him and ask, so why did the British have a reason, you both worked on the same information, didn't you?

America's only other supplier, Aventis, may have upped supplies if they had been asked in advance - say last August - said an Aventis spokesman. But no one from the US approached them on this matter, not till after Oct 5.
That really sums things up. Two governments were working with the same information -- that there were potential problems with the flu vaccine supply. One government handled it well, while the Bush administration displayed incompetence. As they have done on the Iraq quagmire, you can see the Bush administration refusing to take responsibility for this, blaming everybody but themselves for the choices made by the Bush adminstration. As flu season hits us this winter, hopefully seniors and children won't die for Bush's mistake.

Get a grip and quit trying to put this on GW's doorstep. He had assurances that everything would be okay. You ever stop to think the Brits knew something that we didn't like maybe they had already decided to pull the plug on them? And while we're at it, can we "please" get off the "Iraq is a quagmire" kick? It's getting real old and serves absolutely no purpose.

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KarmaGirl

Join Date 03/2001

+118

"Flu Crisis"? That may be a bit over the top. I've only had one flu vaccine in my life, and I ended up getting the flu anyway. To me it just sounds like people like to freak out over everything. Yes, the flu can kill people, but from all the info that I have seen, there will be enough vaccine to vaccinate the people who would be at risk of dying from the flu. I read a study last year that said that healthy young people aren't typically at risk at all, so there is no reason for them to get a shot. So, with a little common sense, people who don't really need it- don't get it, and people who are at risk should be able to get it.

What's the biggest problem with government? No matter what they do, it will be wrong. Can you imagine if they would have pulled the plug and went with a different supplier that maybe raised the prices? Then, there would be the scandalous "government raised prices on flu shot" complaints.

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Yeah, I'm not going to drink the Kool-Aid on this one. I don't think the flu vaccine is all that big of a deal -- in 2003 it was only 50% effective overall and 38% effective for "at risk" groups.

Here, I wrote an article about it, and Karma, Jill, Daiwa, and Cactoblasta all made some really good observations in the comments.

Link

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

You are so clueless, blogic.

"Last" August was 2 months ago.

Do you have any idea how flu vaccine is developed & manufactured?

Do you have any clue what the lead times are in order to have a safe vaccine available by October?

And the Bush administration had nothing to do with the fact that the U.S. had only two suppliers - you can thank your sainted Bill Clinton for that.

Take this complete piece of shit and stick it where it belongs - in the garbage.

Cheers,
Daiwa

It's this kind of idiotic

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Take this complete piece of shit and stick it where it belongs - in the garbage.

Yow. That's a bit harsh. The Bush administration was, in fact, warned 3 years ago that such a thing could occur and that they would be caught unprepared -- and the administration did nothing to try and prevent it. So some of this has merit -- it's not a "complete piece of shit."

Having said that, I still don't think it's such a big deal.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

Obviously I started to say something & accidentally hit the Post Comment button.

It's this kind of demagoguery that just drives me nuts.
I can't believe the 4 hurricanes in Florida haven't been blamed on Bush for having slashed the NOAA budget or having mismanaged it or some such silliness. This is desperation of the sickest kind.

Cheers,
Daiwa

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

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Oh, please.

This sounds like one more thing someone's drug up to bitch about and blame Bush for.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

Then I accidentally hit it twice! Sheesh.

Anyway, keep an eye out for that "Bush responsible for hurricanes" article. I'm sure blogic is working on it.

Cheers,
Daiwa

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This sounds like one more thing someone's drug up to bitch about and blame Bush for.

Bush touched me in my no-no place.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

Sorry, Myrrander. This silliness just bugs me and I was perhaps a bit harsh with that.

Nonetheless, Clinton was warned about Osama, too, so what do we conclude from that? Saying that "the administration was warned" 3 years ago is simplistic and tells me nothing. Vaccine programs and production are way to complicated & regulated to play this "hindsight is perfect" blame game.

Cheers,
Daiwa

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Bush touched me in my no-no place.

@ Myrrander....

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As Daiwa alluded to, your time frame has no bearing on the reasons for the flu vaccine problems. The problem, and solution, lie in the restrictive policys enacted during the Clinton administration that made it not economically feasible for US companies to remain in the vaccine business.

In effect, the policies enacted during the Clinton administration forced the US to outsource its vaccine industry. As a result, the US is dependent on too few companies for all vaccines, not just flu vaccine.

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Everytime I got a Flu shot; I have gotten sick.
Everytime I did not recieve a Flu Shot; I have NEVER gotten sick.

I am seeing a pattern here, the shot gets you sick to keep from getting sick so is it that important to me or low-risk/no-risk people?

Hell NO!!

- Grim X (ACHOOO!!!)

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Wrong President. Try this:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/12/13/140235.shtml

How Clinton caused the crisis! Now, as usual, Bush has to clean up the Clinton/Gore mess again!

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Reply #14 By: Grim Xiozan - 10/19/2004 3:50:18 PM
Everytime I got a Flu shot; I have gotten sick.
Everytime I did not recieve a Flu Shot; I have NEVER gotten sick.

I am seeing a pattern here, the shot gets you sick to keep from getting sick so is it that important to me or low-risk/no-risk people?

Hell NO!!

- Grim X (ACHOOO!!!)

Do you know how the vaccine works? It gives you a mild dose of the flu being vaccinated for so your body will develop antibodies to fight that strain. Does everyone realize that the shot you get is only good for one type of flu?

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the shot gives you a dead virus, not a mild dose, and it's for 3 strains...the nasal spray is a weakened virus and gives you a mild dose of the flu, I'm not sure how many strains...my info came from the CDC...

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Yes I know how it works but so far I have never had any strain of Flu but have serious complications from Flu Shots (example Acute Pharyingitis (sp?) after one flu shot and was laid out for about a 1 1/2 weeks).

Each year the shot has to be updated because the strain is ever changing. For the past 2 years I have not taken a Flu shot and suffered no illness whatsoever.

Does it ultimately affect me as an extremely low-risk person to need the flu shot?

- Grim Xneeze

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

Hate to burst your bubble, GX, but that was just a coincidence, had nothing to do with the flu shot. Flu shot season is also the fall cold season.

You are correct about the vaccine being updated every year based on the CDC's best educated guess as to which viral strains are likely to be most prevalent, but it's just a guess and can be wrong, as it was last year.

Words are insufficient to express my anger at people trying to hang the shortage on Bush. Truely shameful demagoguery is all this is.

Cheers,
Daiwa

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Almost ignored by the conservatives is (1) Bush was warned of this danger three years ago and (2) the UK was confronted by the same situation (obvously, at the same time) and handled it much better.

The British had the same info, and responded to the problem. The Bush administration stuck it's head in the sand. Aventis -- the other major supplier of flu vaccine -- says they could have upped the supply, if only the Bush administration had asked. We already know the British would have.

But no, the conservatives don't think the Bush administration could have handled this better.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

Almost ignored by the conservatives is (1) Bush was warned of this danger three years ago and (2) the UK was confronted by the same situation (obvously, at the same time) and handled it much better.

Not ignored at all. Once again, who was responsible for reducing the number of suppliers? What was the nature and intent of what you are calling a "warning"? Was it specific to the 2004 vaccine program or a general warning that having put all our eggs in two baskets was perhaps not too frickin' smart and we should consider undoing the Clinton policies that reduced our number of suppliers? When did we know that 2004 was the problem year? August of 2004. Also how many doses would be needed for the population of England & how many for the U.S.? Aventis saying they could have increased production if they had been asked is correct, but no one knew they needed to be asked until August. Had they clairvoyantly made twice what the government ordered and no problem occurred had with Chiron's production they would have had to throw half their production run away. That would certainly have helped them remain viable and ensured they'd be around for next year.

The only statistical comparison that holds up is that Britain, a country one fifth the size of the U.S., has 9 manufacturers of vaccine, while the U.S. has 2 sources, only one of which is domestic. You should be asking who was responsible for that, not who failed to call Miss Cleo.

I repeat, stick this where it belongs.

Cheers,
Daiwa

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Reply #20 By: blogic - 10/19/2004 7:06:36 PM
Almost ignored by the conservatives is (1) Bush was warned of this danger three years ago and (2) the UK was confronted by the same situation (obvously, at the same time) and handled it much better.

The British had the same info, and responded to the problem. The Bush administration stuck it's head in the sand. Aventis -- the other major supplier of flu vaccine -- says they could have upped the supply, if only the Bush administration had asked. We already know the British would have.

Again I'll repeat. you don't know this for fact.

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I never received the flu vaccine, yet I'm still alive. I must be a ninja!

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First of all, I think the flu vacine is over marketed to people who probably don't need it. As a country, I think we need to seriously reconsider our investment in unnecessary and ineffective vacination -- especially when evidence suggests that the overuse of vacines and antibiotics tends to create even stronger pathogens. Moreover, frankly, the shortage isn't that short, really. All in all, this is pretty much a non-issue.

Second, as a non-issue, I am pretty tired of its play in the current political quagmire (Hey, Iraq doesn't have a monopoly on the mires of quag!) I was disgusted when it was a lead question in the third debate, and I empathized with President Bush when he seemed to be surprised that that was the first question Shiefer wanted to throw him. (Read that sentence again. Not only did I, an open queer liberal, agree with Bush but I also empathized with him. For a moment, anyway.)

Third, while I think it is wrong to try and turn this non-crisis into something that is Bush's fault, I don't think turning around and arguing that it was Clinton's fault makes much sense either. Those of you who express your disgust at how folks want to pin this on Bush and then turn around and so easily claim it is "yet another mess inherited from Clinton/Gore" might want to rethink the logic of your arguments. Because if this really is the result of a bad policy on Clinton's part, I'm thinking Bush has had four years with a sympathetic congress to change things -- but he hasn't. (Note: I am not trying to put this back on Bush. I am AGREEING with you that Bush is not responsible for this non-crisis. Let's just leave it there and move on. )

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I think we are all more likely to die in a car accident than a Flu.
I am with Messy, except I am a Pirate Ninja.
I say 'argh!' while I throw a Shuriken at you!!

- Grimrate Xinja

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