It was Wal-Mart.

And I was mistaken. They did pledge to give x amount, but there were other allegations made by the AFA regarding WM that were incorrect.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/walmart.asp

I was (partially) wrong about that. Sorry.

It's a waste when the darn corporations waste money they're entrusted to make better and cheaper products with on giving out cash to the weak politicians who insist upon recieveing money from corporations and can't use the government fair elections systems and instead insist upon using private cash and being set towards private interests whether they choose to or not.

Really? And who exactly "entrusts" these companies with money to make "better and cheaper products"? You seem to have a very strange idea of what a corporation is and what they do. A corporation's sole function is to make a profit. That's it, nothing more. What they choose to do with those profits is their business.

I'm beginning to think you may live in a different reality.

MasonM, I know I said I wouldn't comment again, but you're spot on man.  Erathoniel, I'm beggining to think, myself, that you have lived a very sheltered life.  For your sake from now on you should repeat in your head, I'm going to do more research on this matter from SEVERAL sources, before I make a decision.  Because you see if you got to a single source and use that sole source as your guide through the very complex world, you will find yourself at odds with reality.  Good luck and good night.

I beg to differ. What does giving do? I give as an individual, sure, but why should a corporation interested only in making profits give? Selfishness? Corruption? Think about it.

Smart Comment: psychx is going to do much more research on this matter from SEVERAL sources, psychx is going to do much more research on this matter from SEVERAL sources, psychx is going to do much more research on this matter from SEVERAL sources. What did that do?

I've never been at odds with reality. I beg to differ. I just am too emotionless, too cold, yet too attatched, too involved, logical and irrational to see everything in your ways. I am the paradox that would build the world into the greatest civilization yet make it lose its soul. Mayhaps you forget that I have half religious, half dystopian backgrounds, and I know the darkness that people are capable of yet I believe in working for the light. Therefore I find what others accept unacceptable.

I suggest that you are the one who needs to think about it.

A corporation, which is made up of people, gives for one of two reasons.

1. Self interest. They give because they expect to receive a benefit.

2. They support a cause. Corporations made up of people believe in certain causes just as an individual does.

Why do individuals give?

1. Self interest. They give because they expect to receive a benefit.

2. They support a cause.

Get the picture yet? Should I use Crayons?

Your arguments (for lack of a better word) are childish and simply make no sense at all.

I notice that you have yet to address my question regarding companies that contribute to the AFA. Ducking the question or simply don't want to think about it?

Companies also contribute to a great many churches. Should they stop? What would happen to those churches? What about your church? How many business people contribute to it? Want them to stop?

I don't know you, I would not know that you have half religious backgrounds or whatever.  Seemingly you are a walking contradiction.  Hey if you don't want to read and research and edumuchate your self thats fine, but you are doing yourself a disservice.  I actually get the impression from you that you're very naive, and that you really don't know the darkness of which people are capable of.  This AFA we are all speaking of could be highly motivated by profits for all we know.  Anyways, I'm out.  Good luck.

I have studied wars and empires, and I have witnessed murder for food, metal, energy, pathetic trinkets. I'm not surprised that the AFA would be motivated by profits, at all.

I believe that giving is the duty of the individual. Corporations give to their employees and their customers. Then the individuals should give to the church, as mandated by God's law. And, of course, however much the top guys take can be given, but the rest of corporate funds should be kept in-company, for savings or R&D.

I am not aware of any corporations giving to my church, though there are business people who are in the clergy who give from their incomes.

This shows an extremely immature and naive sense of the world. You don't appear to understand business or life in general. The world simply doesn't work the way you think it should. That's called reality.



If you have business people in your clergy who give out of their incomes, then you do in fact have businesses contributing to your church and involved in your church, just like virtually every church has.

Just because you are unaware of any company donations to your church doesn't mean they don't exist. Perhaps it's time to pull your head out of the sand. Most churches couldn't survive without businesses contributing to their incomes. Despite what you might like to believe, a church is a business and requires income to survive.

I never said that it's what happens, it's what I think should happen.



But it's private individuals, not companies contributing. They don't claim any special fame through the donations, just being a good member of the church.



As far as I know, there aren't any. My church, and the companies donating, sure don't flaunt them. People donate, companies not so much.

That's the part you're not getting. Companies are made up of individual people. A "company" is nothing more than an idea and a legal status. Even McDonald's doesn't exist except as an idea and a legal status. It's made up of people.



I don't recall McDonald's "flaunting it" either. If it weren't for the AFA people making such a fuss I doubt that more than a few people would even know about it.



As far as you know. Are you privy to the financial records of your church? Probably not. So you are arguing based upon ignorance. You might be surprised how much money your church collects from businesses.

Eh. Forget it.

I'm rather privy to the financial records of most every church I visit. About $18 left over most weeks.

Agreed! And let McDonalds do what it wants to. The beauty of America at work.

I think this whole thing is just another free advertising campaign by McDonalds. It stinks of it. There is no reason that a company the size of McDonalds would come under such intense scrutiny for a donation so small unless someone wanted it to be known. Will it hurt their sales? Probably not, as the boycott people are probaly not frequenting them much anyway (occassionally, not regularly). And the neutral people will have top of mind awareness of them over BK or Wendys for their next trip to grease heaven.

In short, a clever marketing campaign by McDonalds, and a whole lot of nothing when one peels the onion.

Yes, I'm quite sure every church you visit allows you to access their books.

What I'm saying is this: When you get $15000 a week and come out with $18, you're too busy praying to check who gave it to you and dole out favors.

I'll go to my local McDonalds and recite Wigglesworth poems until they stop this gayness!

Every church records exactly who donated what sums. Anonymous donations are recorded as such and cash collections during services are also recorded as such. Businesses tend to donate via check and those donations are recorded for tax reasons on the part of the business as well as on the part of the church. Under tax law they are required to keep careful records and can't just collect (or spend) money without records.

Because a church is tax exempt they are required to account for every penny. Any failing to do so would risk losing that status. Also, any business that contributes also keeps records in order to claim the tax credits.

Most businesses do not donate to charity looking for them to "dole out any favors", they get the tax break (see reason #1 for giving).

If you honestly believe that a church doesn't know who their money comes from you are sadly naive.

Erathoniel, most churches don't need donations from businesses. That's because most big churches own several businesses or have extensive assets that they are making money off of. The Southern Baptists own lots of sky-scraper real estate that they lease out and that's 'God's money'.

Another good one that a lot of churches do is they let various telecoms put up cell towers in or behind their steeples (makes sense, it's already at a good height, like a pre-existing tower just waiting to have equipment)

While I can't verify this for a fact (perhaps ParaTed could?) I've also heard that some Mormon groups will provide seed money to start a business (there are certain requirements like you have to be a member of their church and have a sound plan) but in return they own a substantial portion of your business.

This goes on and on. Then of course there's folks like Joel Osteen who will gladly save your soul for the low price of $ 16.99 (or whatever the going rate happens to be for whatever he's selling that day)

As MasonM has stated churches are indeed tax exempt so their accounting has to be in order. How they then get away with running these business operations legally is outside my scope of knowledge and can be very complicated.

And then of course you have the downright criminal aspects- a few years ago there was a baptist church in Arizona (First Baptist? I can't recall) that got most of their members to invest in a ponzi scheme in which they told them that they would guarantee a healthy return on the members investment. Many folks gave away their life savings, as the pastor and various guest speakers would expound the virtues of stewardship and "godly" finances etc. What actually happened was this group then squandered a good portion of this money on bad market decisions, then decided they would cut and run with the remaining money leaving thousands of folks high and dry without their money. Thankfully they got caught!

I guess I'm not getting this whole discussion.  Who cares who gives to churches? 

It's not about giving or not giving.  It's about where your money is going.  It's about giving to a cause that the bible denotes as truly sinful.  It's about supporting an organization with your money and  having them spend it on causes that totally go against your worldview.

In all the churches I've been associated with, I've never ever heard of companies suporting them or even given any one time large amounts of money to them. Usually when a large sum of money comes into a church (and it's rare) it's usually when one of the parishinors leaves behind an inheritance.   Chuches' operating budgets come directly from the members attending every week, not big companies looking for a tax write off. 

every church worth its salt has open books.  If they don't....run!  The bible tells us to be good stewards of our money and churches should know this.  In the churches I attended there were always buget meetings once or twice a year with full accountability.  I wouldn't attend one that didn't have open books. 

And I'm glad they did.  If it wasn't for the AFA I would't know that my dinner money was going to a cause I can't support.  How would you like it if your money was going towards a cause you didn't think was right?  Would you continue to support them? 

Listen this has nothing to do with hating gays or trying to discriminate against them.  This has to do with supporting a marriage ammendment that is unconstitutional.   There is nothing in the constitution that warrants our changing the definition of marriage.  It has always been assumed that marriage is to be between one man and one woman. 

To say anyone who objects is a hate filled Christian is ridiculous.  I know many Christians who have helped homosexuals along the way (as I do)  but still wouldn't support this agenda. Christ time and time again showed love and compassion to people in the gospels but in no way condone their sin.  You can still show love towards people you disagree with without supporting their cause. 

 

 

While this can be true of certain denominations, it's not true of the Southern Baptists.  First of all the SBC is an organization, not a church.  There is no head office.  The SBC is made up of individual churches running autonomously.  The SBC is more of a para organization.  There is no real estate holdings or large sky-scrapers.  Would you care to give an example? 

Many churches have a head office which is the brain of the organization and everything flows from it down to the little churches under it.  They dictate and make decisions from afar to all the churches under them.  Sometimes they pull out a Pastor and bring in another and the congregation has no say.

The SBC doesn't work like that.  Every church is autonomous and doesn't get dictated what to do or preach or who to hire.  Every local congregation is in charge of that particular church.  They are held together only by the SBC doctrine which is found in the Baptist Faith and Message. 

 

I don't look at Joel Olsteen and his group as a church.  To me, it's more like a business.  Anyone who falls for his schemes is not thinking clearly.  He's being paid by them to tickle their ears. 

This is true.  I hear about companies giving to charities like United Way or the Cancer Foundations and stuff like that.  Sometimes money  from big companies is given to research grants and stuff.  But I've NEVER heard of a big company donating money to an evangelical church.  Ever.  I'm not saying it's not done...maybe it is, but it's not the norm and I've been involved in many small and large churches over the years and never heard of this happening. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words, McD's is standing up for what they believe in and the AFA is using 'gestapo' actions to shut them up.  How nice of them!

:LOL:

That's ok.  thanks TW for getting back. 

this one statement shows me that you no nothing about me.  You really should get to know a person before you assume so much about them.   

Is that how you see it?  Can't it be......

McD's is standing up for what they believe and the AFA is also standing up for what they believe as well? 

 

 

Just finished a delicious burger at McDonald's. I pushed for the family to go to McD's simply because of the AFA boycott.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm . . . I'm lovin' it.