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Tell the dead children

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Tell the dead children

from JoeUser Forums
Think Saddam was contained? Think he wasn't a terrorist? Do you think, in any fashion, that the Iraq war was a mistake?

More Iraqi mass graves
"The head of the unit, Greg Kehoe, who has seen more than his share of horrors in places such as the Balkans, couldn’t believe what he saw.
"I’ve never seen women and children executed, defenseless people executed in this fashion," he said. "I mean, you look at a young woman holding her 2-year-old child with a gunshot wound to the back of the head. I can’t find any reason to justify that."
When I saw the images I could only think back to Hilla, a town south of Baghdad where I went in the spring of 2003, just after the fall of Saddam. A mass grave of Iraqi Shiites was discovered there.
I will never forget it for as long as I live. Thousands of bodies. Thousands of families swarming over piles of clothing and flesh. Earth-moving equipment digging through the raw humanity. Digging up the past."

Tell the dead children "wrong war, wrong time". Tell the dead mothers "blood for oil". Tell the sons, daughters and fathers of the dead that removing Saddam was a "colossal failure of judgment."

Go ahead, I dare you.
international
24,287 views 76 replies
Reply #51 from PolMach Forums Top
So you say they're all mindless robots, worker bees, tending to the queen. If you really believe that crap, you got another thing coming. You're saying they joined the military because they were bored, they were poor, they had nothing better to do, no good prospects.

That is what was referred to by this statement:

your assertion, not mine

As you well know. Got any other zingers, Mitch?



Thank you for your comments cactoblasta (haven't seen you around for a while).

Respect for your service, Voodoo.
Reply #52 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dear Tex's Husband,

I'm rather disheartened to know that I pissed you off. Not my intention. I would have given my left arm (I'm left handed you see) to reenlist, but I got out while Clinton was President. I also had a wife. No children at the time, I believe in sex after marriage. If it hadn't been her, I would still be a sailor and would have called you a dumbass for not reading the paperwork before you signed up. That being said, when September 11th came around, my wife and I spent hours, many hours discussing my return to military service. I would still go back today. Call me an armchair general, you have the right, but you signed up to do a job, and regardless if you think so, it is a noble one few can do. I understand the thoughts of your wife, but I do not understand the selfishness. I never have.

You speak of Rwanda and the genocide that happened there. Understand, this President was not on watch then. Everyone dotes on the United Nations and yet they did nothing. You may argue the same thing is happening in the Sudan and we are doing nothing. What happened to the great U.N.? We have seen genocide in Iraq. We have taken care of it. We may yet take care of Sudan. You may want to pack light.

I never called you dogs or robots, people who don't understand military life call you that. I've been there. I call you "kids" collectively because the average age of a military service member is well below mine. I had a good job in the Navy, a long, hardworking, thankless job, but a good one nonetheless. I don't envy you yours.

May life be good to you and yours and may you enjoy a peaceful leave. And, finally, thank you for what you do.


Joe Eberly, EM2, USN, now civilian
Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #53 from PolMach Forums Top
Something not often enough expressed. I would like to thank each of you that has chosen to serve our country, regardless of reason. My prayers and hopes are with each of you for a safe return. God speed.
Reply #54 from JoeUser Forums Top
You know....I served in the army.....Chemical Operations Specialist (54B), 1993 - 1996. Spent a year in Korea, 1 1/2 years in Ft. Campbell, KY (63rd CHEM Co, what did we do? http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/63chem.htm). I was Air Assault....

That uniform....I was proud to serve....and oddly, enough....my recruiter was actually completely truthful, all the way down to what would happen as soon as I got off the bus at Ft. MeClellan, AL. The military instilled in me a self-confidance...I remember telling my mom, when i left for Korea....I knew I wouldn't see her for at least a year (i really didn't plan on coming home for the 1 month leave)....I told her, I don't want to die if a war breaks out anywhere....but if I do, know what I would die with honor....

The strange thing...I joined up, knowing full well what could happen....I know (and knew then, also) that sometimes...well, war is just inevitable....I don't believe that the US goes around looking who in teh world we can bully, and knock down....but I know that the majority of the American ppl know that if there are problems somewhere....it is usually the US that HAS to deal with it, cause nobody else really will.

One of my all-time favorite movies is Band of Brothers....and I think one of my favorite parts in that movie (if you can call it a movie....a VERY long movie) was when they were getting ready to march into Bastone (spelling? and I believe it was at that point in the movie)....anyways, the soldiers coming out of the woods told Col. Winters that the Germans were all over, and that they would all be surrounded....cut off to supply lines and all....Winters' response? "We are Airborne....we're supposed to be surrounded". To me...that is the epitomy of the duty of a soldier. Duty.

My definition of a soldier? I really like the song by Toby Keith, "American Soldier"....not sure who wrote it (I would imagine it was him)....but the words ring so true to me....

American Soldier

I'm just trying to be a father,
Raise a daughter and a son,
Be a lover to their mother,
Everything to everyone.
Up and at 'em bright and early,
I'm all in my business suit,
Yeah, I'm dressed for success from my head down to my boots,
I don't do it for money, there's still bills that I can't pay,
I don't do it for the glory, I just do it anyway,
Providing for our future's my responsibility,
Yeah I'm real good under pressure, being all that I can be,
And I can't call in sick on Mondays when the weekends been to strong,
I just work straight through the holidays,
And sometimes all night long.
You can bet that I stand ready when the wolf growls at the door,
Hey, I'm solid, hey I'm steady, hey I'm true down to the core,
And I will always do my duty, no matter what the price,
I've counted up the cost, I know the sacrafice,
Oh, and I don't want to die for you,
But if dyin's asked of me,
I'll bear that cross with an honor,
'Cause freedom don't come free.
I'm an american soldier, an american,
Beside my brothers and my sisters I will proudly take a stand,
When liberty's in jeopardy I will always do what's right,
I'm out here on the front lines, sleep in peace tonight.
American soldier, I'm an American,
An American,
An American Soldier

(by, Toby Keith?)

Anyways....I respect the men and women that are serving in our military....and those that are in harms way, for us, and those that cannot protect themselves.

Chris
Reply #55 from JoeUser Forums Top
SSG: Thanks for your support. I know you don't always agree with me, but you never belittle my thoughts, and I appreciate that.

voodoo:
I understand the thoughts of your wife, but I do not understand the selfishness.


Why do you insist on calling me selfish?

Guess who makes the sacrifice on the home front? Guess who cries at night alone in bed? Guess who will take the boys trick-or-treating alone while the other children walk hand in hand with their mommies and daddies? Guess who spends hours every week gathering and boxing comfort items to mail overseas? Guess who mops the floors and takes out the trash and helps with the homework and mows the yard and takes the car in for repairs, alone and overwhelmed? Guess who explains to a crying child why daddy is not there to wish him a happy birthday?

I take care of things here at home so that my husband can take care of business in the Middle East. I am a proud Army wife, and my sacrifices and those made by my children, contribute something important to the war on terror and to our nation's defense.

How DARE you call me selfish?
Reply #56 from JoeUser Forums Top
TW & Mr. TW -

God bless you both for your service and your sacrifices. We are all fortunate to live in a country where such service & sacrifice are volunteered so selflessly. Thank you.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #57 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well, the counter-argument would run something like:

How about Darfur? What do you say about the U.S. lack of response? If you say "well, we can't be the world's policeman" what were you doing in Iraq? If you say, "not our problem" what were you doing in Iraq?

The thing is that there are lots of bullies in the world. Many have a government address. But if we are going to be selective in our choices, then no war is any better than any other.

So, let me ask? Are you saying we should have gone to war solely to stop Saddam's cruelty?

If yes, I can give a list where it probably has been just as great.


Crispe.

I turn it on you. Where was Clinton for 8 years? Where are you now that you condemn Bush for freeing 50 million? If he has at Sudan, do you think you would change?

You are so duplicitous. You would sacrafice lives for your own agenda. Thank god your kind will soon be history.
Reply #58 from JoeUser Forums Top
I've received an interesting response to this blog entry. Thanks to everyone that has given their time and safety to defend my freedom and the freedom of my children. Each of you has my love and respect, and my prayers and well wishes go out to your safety and your families well being.
Reply #59 from PolMach Forums Top
Wasn't the reason we went to find WMd's, but once we got there, we found out we'd been lied to so now it's "to liberate them"
Reply #60 from PolMach Forums Top
Tell the dead children "wrong war, wrong time". Tell the dead mothers "blood for oil". Tell the sons, daughters and fathers of the dead that removing Saddam was a "colossal failure of judgment."

Go ahead, I dare you.


Yes, it's very hard to say to grieving family members that their loved ones death didn't accomplish much. Unfortunatly that is the case. The people of Iraq might benifit from Sadam being gone in 10 years but as far as quelling terrorim several reports have clearly stated that is has aided Al Queda in recruiting and fund raising.

Sorry famamies, there were no weapons we said were there. That is a fact. The basis for the war was wrong. Damn hard thing to say to you, but it shouldn't not be said just because it is hard to say. You deserve the truth.
Reply #61 from JoeUser Forums Top
it seems as though the problem with Iraq is....the left are looking at the situation in Iraq as the finished product.....What is going on in Iraq is not the end....things will get better there....so long as we don't give up and turn tail and run away.
Reply #62 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #59 By: Freak Caliz - 10/17/2004 7:49:25 PM
Wasn't the reason we went to find WMd's, but once we got there, we found out we'd been lied to so now it's "to liberate them"


Have you been paying attention lately? They have found over 2 dz. Foxbats MIG 25's (high performance fighter jets capable of over 2000 MPH and a 75,000 ft ceiling) buried in the sand around
Al Taqqadum airfield. Now if Saddam had these buried it only stands to reason there are other things he didn't want us to find. BTW don't try and tell me that these were left over from the Gulf War. These A/C with the modifications present did not exsist back then.
Reply #63 from JoeUser Forums Top
They have found over 2 dz. Foxbats MIG 25's (high performance fighter jets capable of over 2000 MPH and a 75,000 ft ceiling) buried in the sand around Al Taqqadum airfield.


Interesting way of hiding them. Wouldn't a plane be badly damaged by being buried underneath the baking sands? I'm surprised the US didn't pick up the earthworks on the satellites, although I guess you can't watch everything.
Reply #64 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #63 By: cactoblasta - 10/17/2004 8:14:53 PM
They have found over 2 dz. Foxbats MIG 25's (high performance fighter jets capable of over 2000 MPH and a 75,000 ft ceiling) buried in the sand around Al Taqqadum airfield.


Interesting way of hiding them. Wouldn't a plane be badly damaged by being buried underneath the baking sands? I'm surprised the US didn't pick up the earthworks on the satellites, although I guess you can't watch everything.


I know I'm going to catch it for this but, I'm going to link to a NewsMax page.

Link
Reply #65 from JoeUser Forums Top
I agree, it seems a bad place to hide aircraft. Also, I do believe it has been concluded there were no WMD's and there was no capacity to produce them.
Reply #66 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #65 By: sandy2 - 10/17/2004 8:26:03 PM
I agree, it seems a bad place to hide aircraft. Also, I do believe it has been concluded there were no WMD's and there was no capacity to produce them.


The conclusions maybe false is what I'm trying to say. Go read the article. BTW under the sand would be a *perfect* place to hide an A/C. There are only 2 major things to worry about in A/C preservation. Moisture and dust. Being in the desert kind of takes care of the first and if they were sealed correctly during placement then the 2nd is taken care of also.
Reply #67 from PolMach Forums Top
There's no point telling the dead children anything. It's far to late to them. Would you also apologise to them for the USA supplying their former dictator with the means to oppress them and murder them? I don't think you would somehow.

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country"

Hermann Wilhelm Göring said that. And we all know what a nice chap he was.

Reply #68 from PolMach Forums Top
Yes, it's very hard to say to grieving family members that their loved ones death didn't accomplish much. Unfortunatly that is the case. The people of Iraq might benifit from Sadam being gone in 10 years but as far as quelling terrorim several reports have clearly stated that is has aided Al Queda in recruiting and fund raising.


Apparently not to hard for yourself to say it, we should send you door to door to those who have lost family over there.

Do you know all the ultimate outcomes for every action? Since from your comment you do tell me what are the consequences of not protecting our Liberty when Kerry and Bush have said or done nothing to protect it?
Reply #69 from PolMach Forums Top
Also, I do believe it has been concluded there were no WMD's and there was no capacity to produce them.


Actuall, the final reports say that there might have been a medium grade capacity to produce biological weapons. He wasn't producing them though. I wish we would go after a country I know that provides more money for terrorists than any other, Saudi Arabia. Bush mentioned that Sadam was giving $25,000 for each suicide bombers family, umm...... if that is a reason to invade Iraq than Saudi Arabia must be in huge trouble. They've been giving more money to palistinian "charaties" over the years than anyone else. Almost all funding for Al Queda comes from Saudi Arabia too and thier "crackdown" leaves much to be desired. The royal family is more converned with using the war on terrorism as an excuse to fight internal enemies than stop terrorist and money from flowing out. Any President who even cared about doing the right thing would get tough with them. I don't know why Bush isn't either, he would score MAJOR points in the election, Saudi Arabia is very unpopular and everyone knows what is going on there.
Reply #70 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #67 By: Bell end - 10/17/2004 8:32:45 PM
There's no point telling the dead children anything. It's far to late to them. Would you also apologise to them for the USA supplying their former dictator with the means to oppress them and murder them? I don't think you would somehow


Apparently we were not the only ones suppling weapons.
Reply #71 from PolMach Forums Top
Apparently we were not the only ones suppling weapons


And that makes it ok? Kind of like a "he started it" playground excuse isn't it?
Is that all you can say about it? I would laugh if it wasn't so scary.
Reply #72 from PolMach Forums Top
Wasn't the reason we went to find WMd's, but once we got there, we found out we'd been lied to so now it's "to liberate them"


Read the Iraq War Resolution passed on 10-10-2002. The answer is partly, other reasons delineated are to Remove Saddam and establish a Democratic government, to stop the repression of the Iraqi people, to enforce the Security Council Resolutions (some of which were the terms of the cease-fire) and because Saddam was a threat to peace and security in the Persian Gulf.
Reply #73 from PolMach Forums Top
Sorry famamies, there were no weapons we said were there. That is a fact. The basis for the war was wrong


Sorry you are uninformed. It is apparent you do not know the entire basis for the war (except the Democrat talking point).
Reply #74 from PolMach Forums Top
Citizen T B sounds to me like the Bushites lied to the public and did it for osmething not in the document, oil.
Reply #75 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply #71 By: Bell end - 10/17/2004 8:42:31 PM
Apparently we were not the only ones suppling weapons


And that makes it ok? Kind of like a "he started it" playground excuse isn't it?
Is that all you can say about it? I would laugh if it wasn't so scary.


Get a grip! I never said it was okay now did I?

This is what my reply was for! If you want to tear my posts apart, please make sure you have all the correct information.
Would you also apologise to them for the USA supplying their former dictator with the means to oppress them and murder them? I don't think you would somehow