Lose-lose situation

How can a soldier choose.

So the Presidential elections are three weeks away. Oh boy.


According to Army Times, the vast majority of military personnel, across the Services, are planning on voting for President Bush.


I can understand why, Bush has increased Military Pay rates, gave the Military the authority to offer more and better incentives for re-

enlistment and so on. However, the simple fact that President Bush forced our Army to go to war, with Rumsfelds insistance that

we need only a few combat troops to secure Iraq and that Iraqi Civil Servants would stay in place and keep the country from

collapse, with very limited forces. Granted the Divisons that initally conducted the war in Iraq did a good job, many senior military

commanders insisted that we would need many more troops to secure the country AFTER collapsing the regime.


Bush went to war without a properly planned SASO (Stability And Support Operation) plan. Without an adequate rotation plan for

most of the Army and military in general. And sent a Division, the 101st Airborne Divison, to the Area of Operations, on very short

notice and expected that the Division would be fully combat ready when the time came. The White House also assumed that Turkey

would allow the 4th ID acces to Iraq through thier country, therefor opening up a second front wich would bring the war to a more

rapid and efficent close. Turky refused. By sheer determination and not a little luck, the 101st became combat ready just in time for

the war in spite of all the logistical obsticals not in its favor.




So the war begain. The expected revolt of the sheites upon our invasion did not happen. Not suprisingly as they learned a hard

lesson by our quick withdrawal after Desert Storm, which left them stranded and eventually severly punished for their actions.


Also the surrender, en masse, of Iraqi forces did not occur. So when we destroyed Iraqi Divisions and Battalions many armed Iraqi

soldiers vanished into the country side, either laying low or waiting for their chance to get back at the Americans.



The US assumed that with the fall of Saddam's regime most of the Saddam loyalist paramilitary forces would be dishearted and

give up. The opposite happened and after the capture of Saddam they increased thier insergency.


With the lack of troop numbers on the ground to effectivly guard the borders, many terrorists and terrorists groups arrived in Iraq

and begain operations. Just like the senior military commanders said they would.


The list of policy shortcomings can go on and on, but now we are stuck and I pray for the best.


Like a joke I read, it says of Bush " Im the one who got us into this mess, Im the only one who can get us out."


Despite all of the negative things the administration has done in Iraq, the military does like the fact that we have a president who is

determined and unwavering in his commitment to the mission and support for the troops.



On the other hand you have Senator Kerry. Right off the bat he is a "No-Go" for many service members simply for his anti-war

activities after Nam. Understandably, who would want some one like that as your Commander-In-Chief?


Another thing to consider is that the major religion in the military is Christian and of that almost 25 percent of service members are

Roman Catholic. John Kerry proclaims to be a Catholic but is not in line with the teaching of the Church. Now a politacian who

flaunts his Faith must be prepared to back it up with actions and be willing to suffer the back lash of their convictions.


John Kerry does not. Against his Bishop's, and the Vatican's, orders, he went to Church and recieved the Euchorist. All this AFTER

he declared that he was Pro-Choice and other violations of Catholic teaching. If a person is Pro-Choice and they are a Catholic

there is no problem, but if a person is Pro-Choice and is running for an office which has a direct influence on the issue, it IS a

problem. He is running for President, he declared himself Pro-Choice and that he would uphold a "womans right to choose" then

he was automaticly Excommunicated from the Church. He then ignored the Church's declaration of his status and went right along

proclaiming he is a Catholic while at the same time disobeying the Faith in which he claims to adhere.


How can you trust a man who says one thing and does another, without any thought or respect.


His voteing record and past statements also show him to constantly change his "beliefs" to better mach those to whom he is

speaking to. Basicly he is a liar, BUT he has a much better Domestic Policy than the current adminastration.


Obviously a soldier's home and family are important and regardless of thier job overseas, their main focus is the "home front" and

they would be inclined to vote for one who would better serve both their familys and thier nations domestic needs better.



Bottom line is that a soldier is a defender of freedom, but more than that a soldier is one who attempts to portray the best of

American values. So when we must decide between these two, it is very diffacult as they both, in different areas, personify the

values of Americans, we are forced to choose which value is more important. In fact they are equally important. It is a shame if we

do not vote and it will be a shame when we do.

22,329 views 46 replies
Reply #1 Top
Sorry, I forgot to add hello to everyone and thank you for your time.
dysmas
Reply #2 Top
Great article.

Here are some complaints my husband (25th ID soldier, deployed in support of OEF) has expressed in regards to Bush as Commander in Chief :

Bush has opposed renewal of the deployment pay increases.

America is shouldering billions of dollars of debt to support the war in Iraq while soldiers are being forced to create their own "junkyard" uparmored humvees and use equipment that is broken or otherwise inadequate.

KB&R employees who stand around and tell local Afghanis and Uzbekis and Iraqis, etc. how to cook eggs for a soldier's breakfast make upwards of $100K, but an Army Staff Sgt. with 10 years in service brings in a base pay salary of under $33K.

The standard deployment is at least one year long, and combat tours are back-to-back for many troops. Some soldiers have come home from tours that lasted over a year only to be sent back a couple of months later due to PCS.

Stoploss is keeping soldiers in the military against their will after they have fufilled the term of their service, and while this is perfectly legal and part of the contract, it is still extremely disconcerting.

These are just a few of the issues he has with Bush . . . I have edited the content to remove the $#%@ words.



Reply #3 Top
So, let me get this straight, a military man voting for Bush is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders. Correct?

Reply #4 Top
Thanks and you and your husband are completly correct. Aside from the pathetic difference in military vs. civillan pay, the KBR food SUCKS. Would you believe that my first, highly anticipated meal from them in Iraq was....cold, COLD, macaroni with mustard and diced RAW green pepers...yup KBR sucks.
Reply #5 Top
, yes a chiken voting for the oh-so-sweet Col........only to find that he is slated to be killed, cooked, and eaten.
Reply #6 Top
KB&R employees who stand around and tell local Afghanis and Uzbekis and Iraqis, etc. how to cook eggs for a soldier's breakfast make upwards of $100K, but an Army Staff Sgt. with 10 years in service brings in a base pay salary of under $33K.

The standard deployment is at least one year long, and combat tours are back-to-back for many troops. Some soldiers have come home from tours that lasted over a year only to be sent back a couple of months later due to PCS.

Stoploss is keeping soldiers in the military against their will after they have fufilled the term of their service, and while this is perfectly legal and part of the contract, it is still extremely disconcerting.


TW, I'd have to say that while a lot of this has to do with the Bush administration (going to war and staying there), but at least some of the burden has to be shouldered by Congress (albeit, a Republican Congress, presently). But, specifically the draw down of forces through the 90's set the state for stop loss and long, back to back deployments. Smaller Army means we have to fight more with less. That's not all the fault of the President. He is the one saying let's go fight, but he's stuck with the Army he's got... I'm not attempting to dissuade you or your husband from you point of view... I just don't think that all of this is Bush's fault...
Reply #7 Top
Oh, sorry...

Welcome to you, Dysmas! Hope you enjoy JU!
Reply #8 Top
True enough, Bush inherited a military sadly lacking in manpower and funds, as it were. It's not soley Bush's fault, theres no way it could be but damn, you would think that someone would have figured out a way to bring our forces back around more quickly. I guess, as often is the case, it takes a war to inspire warriors.
Reply #9 Top
Uhm if a Military person who votes for Bush is like a Chicken voting for 'Col. Sanders'.

Than there must be alot of people who like and trust 'Col. Sanders' in the Military.

Military are rallying behind Bush, says survey [LINK]

Unless you have something against The University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg Group?

- Grimorge Xashington

Reply #10 Top
chip:
He is the one saying let's go fight, but he's stuck with the Army he's got...


I think that's the big sticking point for Adrian . . . and of course, I share his views. We are young (mid-twenties), and my husband wasn't in the service during the Clinton years, so you have a bit better perspective on that than we do, but the "let's go fight" is a problem for us. Things just seem pretty messed up right now.
Reply #11 Top


Reply By: Grim Xiozan Posted: Friday, October 15, 2004
Uhm if a Military person who votes for Bush is like a Chicken voting for 'Col. Sanders'.

Than there must be alot of people who like and trust 'Col. Sanders' in the Military.

I am a relativly objective person, as is evidenced in my blog and I was just responding, mainly in jest but there is an element of truth in it.
Personnaly I support Bush as I posted in the The Ugly Bush: He Smirks As He Wrongly Smears Kerry blog.
But as I lost two close friends and my unit in general lost 17 soldiers in Iraq im sorry if im a bit cynical at times.
Reply #12 Top
Oh I don't mind cynicism but alot of soldiers still trust Bush over Kerry despite their losses.

I guess as always trust the one you know over the one you don't.

Elementary my dear Dysmas, Elementary.

- Grimlock Xholmes
Reply #13 Top
, but the "let's go fight" is a problem for us. Things just seem pretty messed up right now


Can't really argue with that... but, it would be a completely different story with Reagan's Army... it's all relative...
Reply #14 Top
Indeed I trust Bush completly over Kerry, but im merely a "watson" in effect: what the hell do I really know?
Id say not all that much....except that I right 100% of the time....its just that I can't remember it all at once lol
Reply #15 Top
Oh the Watson reference was just thrown in for humor don't take it seriously.

Though you should watch out for the Furry Little Hamsters, they are after power for their Global Domination Plan and have taken out hits through the Gerbal Thongs on my life because I know too much.

- Grimspiracy Xheorist
Reply #16 Top
indeed I will
Reply #17 Top
Uhm if a Military person who votes for Bush is like a Chicken voting for 'Col. Sanders'.
Than there must be alot of people who like and trust 'Col. Sanders' in the Military.


The point stands, Grim, many policies enacted under Bush as well as the war in Iraq, in general, are detrimental to soldiers. Perhaps most of them are just too busy doing their job to spend the time researching the issues...

Reply #18 Top
As somebody not in the military, and I'm sure Deference will agree with me, I can honestly say that those who are in the military that'd prefer Bush to Kerry really must not know what it's like to be in the military... like me.
Reply #19 Top
Reply By: Messy Buu Posted: Saturday, October 16, 2004 As somebody not in the military, and I'm sure Deference will agree with me, I can honestly say that those who are in the military that'd prefer Bush to Kerry really must not know what it's like to be in the military... like me.


Im sorry but Im not exactly sure what you mean, chalk it up to stupidity on my part lol.
But if, (big if) your statement: I can honestly say that those who are in the military that'd prefer Bush to Kerry really must not know what it's like to be in the military is what I think it is then its a bit off. How can a service member not know what its like to be in the service. For example IM in the Army and I know exactly what its like. And I prefer Bush to Kerry, although I sorely wish there were different choices.
Again im sorry if I misinterprited your post but either way thanks for your line.
Reply #20 Top
Reply #17 By: Deference - 10/16/2004 12:29:05 AM
Uhm if a Military person who votes for Bush is like a Chicken voting for 'Col. Sanders'.
Than there must be alot of people who like and trust 'Col. Sanders' in the Military.

The point stands, Grim, many policies enacted under Bush as well as the war in Iraq, in general, are detrimental to soldiers. Perhaps most of them are just too busy doing their job to spend the time researching the issues...


They don't have to *research* the issues, they are living the issues!
Reply #21 Top
I was in the military, I'm not now (thank the F*ckin' Lord!) but if I was still in, I'm sure I'd be a bit peeved about stop loss, the unarmoured humvees, the civilians getting paid more than I for similar work, the deployment pay, etc. etc. .

In regards to your comment, Drmiler, just because I'm a citizen living in G.W.'s America does not make me an informed individual, I certainly don't know all the ins and outs of all Bush domestic policy or all the far reaching consequences...wouldn't you agree?

Reply #22 Top
"If a person is Pro-Choice and they are a Catholic there is no problem, but if a person is Pro-Choice and is running for an office which has a direct influence on the issue, it IS a problem."

While I respect your opinion, I cannot agree with you on this issue. An elected official, particularly the president, has a sworn DUTY to try and represent ALL of his/her constituents' interests and not just those who have certain religious values or beliefs. It is also the sworn DUTY of elected officials, and particularly the President, to UPHOLD the law of the land and the U.S. Constitution. It is not the duty of elected officials to impose their religous values upon the public at large via legislative or executive fiat, nor should it be. To do so changes this country's form of government from a democracy, where people have a right to CHOOSE beliefs, to an authoritative theocracy, where your beliefs and conduct are mandated to you via the President's own religious point of view, (that is exactly what happens in Arab countries where their laws are subserviant to their religion...and we all see how well THAT works). The Vatican does not and should not dictate, via the personal beliefs of the President or elected officials, what Americans should and should not believe or do. The law of the land says abortion is legal based on long standing precedent of Constitutional jurisprudence which says that people in this country have a right to privacy and the right to make their own choices regarding marriage and reproduction. While I agree a President should be reflective and rely on his/her religion for strength and wisdom...the President should NOT be imposing any particular religious values or beliefs on other people who have the right to either share those views, reject those views, or be indifferent to those views.
Reply #23 Top

So, Presidents aren't supposed to be pushing for anything of any kind, or only if it has nothing to do with religion, but maybe a belief based on something as subjective (i.e. the idea that the government should be doing more to help the poor)?

Reply #24 Top
Drmiler, "They don't have to *research* the issues, they are living the issues!"

Just because you are immediately experiencing something doesn't necessarily mean that you FULLY understand its impact or its consequence AT THAT MOMENT. For example, as citizens, we are ALL living under the Constitution. However, that does not mean we all understand ALL of it's consquences, intentions, it's meanings nor do we all fully experience ALL of it's effects at any given time. For example, if you have never committed crime and/or you have never been a direct victim of a crime...you may not necessarilly or FULLY understand ALL of the implications of the 4th Amendment even though we ALL experience the Constitution by virtue of our living under it.. Additionally, I don't think most people who HAVE committed crimes and/or have been direct victims of crimes and HAVE directly experienced the impact of the 4th Amendment FULLY understand it's impact while they are IMMEDIATELY experiencing it). A simpler example: A lot of Gulf War I veterans probably would have said that the vaccines they were required to recieve did not have an adverse affect on their health, AT THE TIME THEY WERE INJECTED (i.e. when they experienced it), but it has now been found via, a newly released study, that some of those vaccines were toxic and have a direct link with Veteran's developing Gulf War Syndrome.
Reply #25 Top
Messy Buu, "So, Presidents aren't supposed to be pushing for anything of any kind, or only if it has nothing to do with religion, but maybe a belief based on something as subjective (i.e. the idea that the government should be doing more to help the poor)?"

I'm not saying that Presidents should not be pushing ANY point of view. I'm saying that Presidents should not be pushing an agenda that is based primarily on any particular RELIGIOUS point of view. Nothing is truly "subjective" but we should be trying to do the best we can. Helping the poor is not based solely on religion...it is also based on our sense of civic duty to help those who are less fortunate. I agree there is often overlap...what I am saying is that certain issues are primarily rooted in religion and that is what we need to steer clear of.