Stacked Teams vs Newbs (is this fun?)

its always been this way, for some people the will to win > will for a good game

What also happens is that people tend to form groups, and want to play together, and play together a lot. And then complain because no one can match them.

Happens in every online game I've ever played. No surprise to see it happen here.

Well, three things...

Without a rating system, this is just gonna keep on happening. Sucks, but, it's how it goes.

Also, win/loss on ICO can be deceiving... some people have a ton of wins just because a buddy decided to "surrender" when leaving a game, even if he intended to finish it on a load later. They surrender, you win.

And lastly, just as chuck says... some people just "play to crush" (god, I miss Shadowbane)... and really do find thrashing newbs fun. It makes them feel like Godzilla smashing Tokyo. Which you gotta admit, is fun from time to time.

This is certainly a problem... When I play with my friends, we are on Ventrilo...and we sometimes do 3v5 or 3v6 or some such to try and get a decent game on ICO...We also do many 2v2, 3v3 inhouse games which are alot of fun...

My problem with playing with random people on ICO is that its frustrating playing a 3v3 when your allies are just pathetic...Then the next thing you know, your having to play a 3v1. I swear, many times I want to ask them to leave and just let the AI play.

The way I deal with this, is that I try to do 2v2v2v2 or FFA when playing with people I don't know. That way I can compensate for the random ally in the 2v2v2v2 =p.

The one good thing about noobs playing these "stacked" games is that if they watch the replay, they actually get good experience and improve. I desperately want the ICO community players to improve, on average... Alot of my friends want the same thing, which is why we keep posting about the strategy we use, etc (HuntingX's posts, innociv's posts, etc etc).

-Drexion

You're right, I don't see the fun in that kind of game either, but if everybody involved does, then fair game. Personally, I've learned to avoid this type of game since it often makes for one frustrating experience. When it comes to stats on ICO, they are normally a somewhat decent indicator of the opponent's skills, if you know how to look at them, especially since it isn't everybody that, like I, takes pride in surrendering instead of just leaving when defeated.

I think the ideal route for Ironclad and SD to take would be to create a ladder system using the Elo rating system, while still allowing casual players to enjoy unrated games.

Drex, am I reading correctly: You ask teammates to leave because they can't play as good as you (yet)?

To be fair, he said he 'wants to ask them to leave', not that he does so.

Drex, do you tell them what you think they should be doing or just give them a few tips on what you expect them to do (not in-depth, but just overall strategy)? That seems to me to be the best solution when playing with a noob or noobs.

No. He said he WANTS to do that sometimes, not that he does.

I have never asked a random ICO team-mate to leave. Thats just plain rude. Well, I did one time because he was lagging like crazy, but thats about it hehe.

Regarding giving tips, I sometimes try to give general guidelines during the game but really, Its not a go-tutoring match . They should download some of the replays posted on the forum and learn from those...

No, I didn't mean to imply you should go in-depth, but if you do just as you describe (general guidelines), then the onus is on the noob to play appropriately.

And yes, I agree on the research. I've not played on-line yet, as I know I'd be one of those frustrating noobs, so I want to get a handle on the three races and some strategies before joining a game and screwing everything up for someone else. So I'm reading these forums and playing different single player game setups. I've not got around to DLing any replays yet (having too much fun playing my own games!)

There was a situation where there were stacked teams and I was on the worse team, so I politely asked someone from the better team to switch over and the host kicked me. =/ Some folks on ICO are not very kind.

Some sort of level up system might be good.

What i'm thinking is that every time you win by X amount you get experience and level up and you have a number next to your name to mark your level. When people surrender etc that would also need to be taken into account.

Kruelgor, thought about it and must say: U are damn right. A lot of players (me included) should really mix up. Its so much more fun to have a balanced game going on with decent fights. Regarding friends, its makes fun to kick their bud too, while being on TS or Vent and saying "Allright Pal, i hid that 10 subverters, now you gonna cry".

If I see a 2 vs 2 or a 3 vs 3 come up, then it immediately fills with half the players needed then just sits at that number, I won't touch it. That usually means it's three people all working together to stomp the random people who join, some of which may not even speak the same language.

I don't blame people for wanting to play with friends and people they know, and wanting to win. Just not my cup of tea to be on the receiving end of such things.

Personally I don't get too mad at players on my team who are clearly inexperienced, everyone has to learn sometime. Early game there's usually some down time (unless the map is very small) so I'll usually take a look over at what they're up to. If I see anything really bad (trying to take a neighboring planet before their Asteroid, not upgrading infrastructure, etc.) I'll say something. But really they'll probably learn more from the eventual loss, especially if they watch the replay, than they will from anything I might say.

This is why I generally avoid RTS Multiplayer games... the dreaded noob crush.

After playing around on 10 different maps in the idiotic single player maps and a couple of multiplayer games, the game is more boring than watching iron rust.

Again DEV's, thanks for the lack of real development and selling me an early beta version for $40. At least galaxy forge was fun.

Enjoy this map.Serkarian Rift 2 Player, 13 stars, 219 planetary objects to explore. Extract "ScenarioPicture-Sector359b.tga" to textures folder. Yes, it's designed to be a large freaking map with exploration potential. Some planets are set up as pirate bases, build up your fleets

Especially like the options available for MP games allowing host to determine starting tech level, limiting tech level, and other enhancements that would really make the game seem like a full retail product instead of a half assed beta.

Hey, this game was in open beta for six months. If you didn't feel like giving them ideas on how to improve it then, don't complain now because it isn't a real-time click fest!

Wouldn't be surprised if Team 1 were on voice comm, either. In the FPS community that I'm a part of it was called "Teaming", where a couple clanmates or skilled buddies join a public server, get on the same team, and then proceed to spank the nooblets.

One solution would be to set up a PUG match channel with a pugbot, allowing teams to be picked (like in gym class) often resulting in balanced teams, but it would take effort to get a Sins pug match community going and folks would have to learn to use IRC. It would also make it easier for people to play on Galaxy Forge-designed custom maps since anyone playing at that level could be expected to have downloaded and installed the "clan" or "ladder" maps.

(My apologies to those who are tired of hearing me yak about this; I'm sure I sound like a broken record.)

Some people should get together and forms some teams (clans?) and fight back. Join the games with stacked teams and have a good time beating them.

I strongly applaud that, Windexglow. I hope more and more people do that! Personally I get great satisfaction in joining such 3v3 clan games with my friends and having a "good" match. Sometimes we need to use smurfs to get into those games, but still .

That's a releif to know Drex. Boy, I was wondering there for a minute if there were serval ex-teammate noobs of yours out there shivering in their dog house   

One of my friends is still playing the demo, deciding if he will get the game; I'm 90% sure he will. And when he does, ever after a dozen games, he will still be noobish. But it's always a great challenge (and fun) to team with noob friends, and play vs the AI, cause if your a decent player, you can still win with "not good" players on your team. I had more fun and satisfaction winning a 2v2 with one of my noob-friend (poor guys was in 4rth place the entire game) than any 3 AIs vs me solo victories.

In real life, in real wars, you have generals and allies of all skill levels and tech/equipment levels. It's not if they are "equal" to you that you win, but how you work with their weaknesses (and strengths) to win. I had my friend put in charge of defending our planets with his small fleet, and sending small fleets of Seige frigates (along with his seige Cap ship) to harras AI planets, and you would have thought I put him in charge of the pentagon the way he got stoked by being able to help.

Hahaha, hey that's awesome. You know I'm a newbie player as far as MP goes and I'd be happy too with the experienced guys giving me a job to focus on... I love teamplay over and beyond whether it's MP or AI stomping anyways though, my tastes differ from some I think.

I've also only EVER clicked on surrender. The opposition deserved it.

Noob stomping isn't fun, but if I don't have enough players for an inhouse and I'm extremely bored yeah I'm going to do it, why shouldn't I be able to play with friends on vent just because you don't have friends and a vent server? Just because we all happen to not suck? People act like we're there just to stomp noobs, when in reality, we just want to play, we'd play if another good team joins, or if noobs join. Or if we have enough on we'll skip pubs altogether and play inhouse so we're sure of a quality game.

I actually understand it being annoying if you are playing someone completely new thats why Ive avoided MP but I agree what the person said about if a newbie gets trashed and watches the replay they will learn. With that said if any of you are in a forgiving mood and need a newbie to fill a place feel free to pm me

Im a vet with many non strat games and I agree you do get a better game but the mind some of your friends stop playing , well by that time there probably will be less on IC because many people work like how you say. Community standard wont raise unless people are willing to play newbies. I would love to get a game with some of you though if even to see a good replay and a replay that shows weaknesses specific to how I play.