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Hyperdesk

Hyperdesk

by The Skins Factory

http://www.hyperdesk.com/

So with Hyperdesk just around the corner, is this finally some competition for WindowBlinds?  How well will TSF and Stardock play together?  I know TSF used to contribute here, but they don't show up much anymore, at least with content.  I'm anxiously awaiting the release and can't wait to see DarkMatter.  Hurry up Jeff. ;) 

What are your thoughts?

 

*UPDATE:  Hyperdesk is live.  Go check it out and leave your constructive  comments about it here.  (Notice I didn't say "only leave your good comments or bash it".  Constructive comments can be positive or negative but should be supported with facts.)

 

842,830 views 435 replies
Reply #76 Top
I havent been able to rate for over a month, logged in, cookies or not.


That's because you don't rate, John. ;)
Reply #77 Top
Hmmm . . I'll look closer.  Maybe I'm wrong (again).
Reply #78 Top
I havent been able to rate for over a month, logged in, cookies or not.


ditto........just came back last few days....
Reply #79 Top
Confirmed.
Apprentices and higher or subscribers can rate.

Makes sense to me.

If you fall into these groups but can't rate you might want to start a new post in the Site Issues forum.  (post a screenshot and the URL of the skin you are trying to rate  )
Reply #80 Top
But posting about one skinning company in another skinning companies forum is going to generate these types of discussions.


However, this was not what I intended on posting this. I was only trying to see what others thought about the endeavor. It wasn't meant to be WC vs TSF although that seems like the way it went for some... :NOTSURE: 
Reply #81 Top
WC = STARDOCK...why can't I edit my post when there isn't another post after mine?

*but I can edit this one...curious...something to do with quotes maybe?
Reply #82 Top
Ok, I've read through the thread at 'other' customizing site (after it was highly 'edited') and now this one. I've yet to make a comment so, my 2 cents....

The vast majority of potential end-users have never skinned their OS - they're running the stock OS interface.

This statement/fact above is very likely true to someone just getting into customization for the first time. Now its unsure, as even TSF seems to 'beat around the bush', as to exactly how Hyperdesk will work all we can do is wait and see on all of the 'tech' behind it. But, if the said program IS a patch then anyone who's been customizing their PC for some time is not truly going to settle for an inferior experience unless, maybe (and a big maybe) if the quality of it is phenomenal. Also, if XP is the only supported OS then there will be a 'time table' for its usefulness (Vista is growing in its # of users). These factors will play against any type of 'StyleXP/patch' based application just because of its inherent limitations.

Brad made mention to WMP, I have to agree with him in that WMP is wanning in its usefulness as it has less 'cross program' support (like WinAmp) and is less 'attractive' when skinned (such as WinAmp and Xion). Plus, programs like iTunes and the like are growing in their popularity as well. Hopefully TSF sees this too and addresses it.

I've seen nothing to the effect of any question to the quality of the art that TSF produces. Without dought its fantastic and top notch. Thats a given and mute point. How it ever came up in the first place is odd.


As to so-called "Master" Skinners, and others saying that they will not skin for aging technology, again, I got news for you.... you already are doing by refusing to accept that XP is now over 5 years old in its x32 form and only 2 years+ old in its x64 incarnation and clinging to this technolgy because you don't want to use MS Vista, either in x32 or x64, and state that you'll wait for the next OS version.

John (vStyler) has already commented to the above and I'm just 'backing up' his statement as I also use and 'primarily' skin for Vista now as I enjoy that much more then XP. Though I never used StyleXP or skinned for it. I guess I just came across WindowBlinds first and never 'looked back' to 'the patch', even after many request to. ;)
Reply #83 Top
WC = STARDOCK...why can't I edit my post when there isn't another post after mine?*but I can edit this one...curious...something to do with quotes maybe?


It seems that for awhile now for some reason it has only been allowing every other post to be edited. Screwy :d


edit: was able to edit this one with the quote in it.
Reply #84 Top
It has to do with the timing. Immediately afterwards (in some forums and not others for some odd reason) the edit button won't appear til a few minutes later, which unfortunately won't be helpful if someone immediately posts after you.
Reply #85 Top
Measure twice...cut once :)
Reply #86 Top

Awesome icon work.

They should be, Ian "Voo" Black made them.  He's been doing some amazing work for Stardock Design lately.  He has amazing artist vision, as do all of the Stardock Design artists.

I am sure that the Art that is produced for HyperDesk will be amazing, but I'm still wondering how they will be able to provide end user support.  It's one thing to provide second level support, but end user support requires several staff members and the ability to bug fix the software.

Reply #88 Top
Frogboy said - For instance, Windows Media Player skinning. What on earth is Jeff thinking? He's still making the exact same stuff as he was way back then.  Seriously Bill, do you use Windows Media Player to play music? They have a Mac version. Do you use it?  Nobody does. And WMP is downright state of the art compared to XP uxtheme


As a matter of interest you will see that the Sony theme being advertised on the TSF site will include a Winamp skin  ;) 

Reply #89 Top

As a matter of interest you will see that the Sony theme being advertised on the TSF site will include a Winamp skin

That's arguably even worse.  I like Winamp and all but the number of Winamp users these days is not what it once was. At least Media Player comes with Windows.

A better solution IMO would be to have a skinnable gadget that can control whatever player you have (iTunes, Media Player, Winamp, whatever). 

I've seen Jeff (owner of Skins Factory) complaining about being "attacked".  I think he has a persecution complex.

I have no doubt that the themes The Skins Factory puts out will be top notch.  As I said elsewhere, does anyone here doubt the quality of The Skins Factory?

The problem is the choice of uxtheme.  It's pretty sad that at one time, there were lots of different skinning engines. Chroma, eFX, Illumination, etc. People act like there's either WindowBlinds or uxtheme and that's simply not the case. 

Patching pieces of the OS to turn off digital signature checking (that is, what hacking uxtheme is about after all) is not something "professionals" do.  Anyone seriously into skinning knows the problems associated with it.  Sure, hackers can figure out how to recover their systems when the patch inevitably fails but what about regular folks? 

For years I've seen uxtheme hackers argue I'm spreading some sort of "FUD" by pointing out this truism.  TGT Soft eliminated their forums entirely. The neowin forums are full of people trying to get support for Style XP these days because guess what? It doesn't work anymore on the latest version of XP. 

And when something does go wrong with a uxtheme patch, what are casual users going to do? Sure, techies can go to Neowin and try to find a way around it. But what about casual users? What are they going to do? Will HyperDesk have autoupdating built in? I doubt it.

We work with Rafael who makes the uxtheme patches for Vista. And he would be the first to tell you the issues of patching uxtheme.  For instance, a minor update to Windows Vista broke every single msstyles file out there. Every one. If you go to deviantART and try to use the pre-August 2007 msstyles, they won't work because of a change Microsoft made to uxtheme. 

My point is that the problem isn't Hyperdesk the concept. Or Hyperdesk the themes. The problem is uxtheme patching. The vendor here has no control over the engine. Does not have the vendor's permission. And will get no support from the vendor WHEN the engine gets broken by an update.

Anyone arguing that a uxtheme based solution is somehow inherently safe and stable for end users is simply not being honest. Unless you have a license and support agreement with the engine provider you're at their mercy and history has shown pretty clearly that uxtheme patching is not a safe and reliable solution for the long term.

Unless The Skins Factory can put in place how they plan to SUPPORT their customers WHEN uxtheme gets updated and their solution gets broken or their themes get broken then how can they reasonably expect industry support?

Let me put it this way: Even MyColors, in which Stardock makes BOTH the engine and the content has a mechanism built in to update the software and the theme automatically should we need to update it and we don't really need that since we control both sides.  If Hyperdesk doesn't at least have that feature, then I'd say it's not really something that should be even remotely considered.

Now someone can say I'm biased or whatever but I would challenge them to dispute the accuracy of the facts I present here.

Reply #90 Top

They should be, Ian "Voo" Black made them. He's been doing some amazing work for Stardock Design lately. He has amazing artist vision, as do all of the Stardock Design artists.

Couldn't agree more.  :)

Reply #91 Top
May I congratulate Frogboy on his post above, it was informative and balanced, and very well presented.

Thank you.

Regards,

Peter
Reply #92 Top
What gets me is why all the fuss over what has yet to be released?
All I see is images of what it is and does...
I've seen Jeff (owner of Skins Factory) complaining about being "attacked". I think he has a persecution complex.


Not to say who started all this but... it would seem there was points made about artist. Which have very little to do with what program does what and how. I did not care for this at all and what the hell is that all about?
Then there is this pointing fingers at who got what and how or whatever..? I'm very unimpressed with such things. To say again " we got the contract and you did not " ... to what end and why? I'm not concerned with it. Sounds and looks like a kid crying about a toy!

What I want to see is the actual product and how it will do whatever it is suppose to do. Plus can I skin with it? Or is it just a tool for presenting what has already been skinned by someone else and that is all I get? I'm at end with this program till I see it. Coming soon - they say?

SGT :NOTSURE: 
Reply #93 Top

Plus can I skin with it? Or is it just a tool for presenting what has already been skinned by someone else and that is all I get?

I believe that TSF has stated a few times that it is not for community use, it's only as a way of applying their themes.  So, no, you wouldn't be able to skin for it.  I don't think there will be a personal version of it (like the OD components) to use.  It would be like if we only had MyColors and no way to make skins or another way to apply them.  Not sure that would go over too well with our customer base ;)

Reply #94 Top
Not sure that would go over too well with our customer base


You got that right - it will not fly here for sure!
I will not buy any of it - no matter who did the art work and how good it is.
It never fails there is always something a bit different with each PC and you need to be able to adapt the skin to it for it to be just as I want it.
I'm a bit picky - but Stardock - even with my colors has done exactly what I wanted to do.
It puts me in control of what I want - not what they just give me. I like that...

Thank You Karma Girl - I remember that stuff now that you brought it up. I get caught up in the bashing and forget what is really going on sometimes... Thanks Your Great and you know that!

SGT :HOT: 
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Reply #95 Top
I've been around here long enough to: [A] respect the work that The Skins Factory makes but [B] Know that the owner is a sociopath.

This hyperdesk thing has been vaporware since last Fall right? How hard can it be to make a theme chooser and patch uxtheme? Others have been doing it for years. VB Programmers aren't that hard to find.
Reply #96 Top

Well Jesh has always had an incredibly thin skin.

He should be proud of what he's built but instead is always looking for a reason to complain about how he's treated.

I read over on his deviantART page today about how I'm spreading FUD about uxtheme patching. Please.

I'm an admin on the world's largest uxtheme support site (Neowin).  I've been following the fortunes of uxtheme patching since the beginning.  As a software developer, I suspect I know a bit more about how uxtheme works and what its impact is likely to be than some art contractor working out of his Florida home.

The FUD thing is always an obnoxious charge because it has no basis in fact. Why would I pick just on uxtheme? We supported Chroma, eFX, and Illumination.  Mian and Toasty (developers of eFX) were good friends of mine in the day. You want to talk about "serious" competition, that was it.  But uxtheme? Please.  My problem with uxtheme has been discussed thousands of times and it doesn't change because Jesh or whoever decides to cheap out and try to use it for their latest venture.

Personally, I just wish they'd release the damn thing so that the forum spamming they do would stop. They've been hyping it for going on a year now.  I remember them trying to tell Alienware it would be out "real soon now" early last year.  Here we are, going into May and it's still not out.  Software gets delayed but a year of hyping gets pretty old.  First it was "Coming this Fall" and then it was "Coming March 31" then April now it's May.

I can assure him, Stardock definitely doesn't view it as competition. I'm not even sure what he thinks it competes with. MyColors maybe? Certainly not anything major on WinCustomize.  I just think he likes to find someone to demonize to motivate himself.

Reply #97 Top
I'm dying to check it out, I quite enjoy fine tooth combing.
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Reply #98 Top

about how I'm spreading FUD about uxtheme patching. Please.

I read that, too...and pondered the appropriate acronym for Jesh's comments....

SOB

Spin, Optimism, and Bullshit.

Come on, Jeff, me old mate.... it'll likely look quite sexy....but it'll be flawed.  It's all about whether the flaws will be outweighed by the sexy....

....or not....;)

Reply #100 Top

Two mnoths pass...

Still no hyperdesk