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Cheney trumps Edwards

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Draginol
Draginol
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #76 October 6, 2004 10:22:41 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

CrispE:  The MSNBC poll isn't scientific. It's subject (And was subjected to) ballot stuffing.  The ABC poll, conducted on a reasonably large sample showed Cheney won.

Not that it matters, I am content in my judgment.  I didn't need polls to tell me that Bush lost the first one nor do I need some website poll to tell me that Cheney won this one.

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Draginol
Draginol
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Reply #77 October 6, 2004 10:25:08 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
BTW Blogic, I think Cheney's best line was the one where he said if you guys can't stand up to Howard Dean, how can you stand up to terrorists. I think that resonates because it's pretty obvious now that the real reason Kerry voted against the $87B was to try to out Dean Howard Dean.
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Draginol
Deference
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #78 October 6, 2004 10:26:57 AM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Sorry didn't see the debates. . . and why when the Yankees and Twins were playing on Fox. It was probably better then the debates—especially since the "Yankees" lost.

Yeah....hey, do you even vote?

There was a time in American history when people were more thrilled and involved in politics then they were passively watching some idiots toss a ball around...

Sorry, but people like you piss me off.
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Draginol
KarmaGirl
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Reply #79 October 6, 2004 10:29:27 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/06/debate.main/

"According to an ABC poll, 43 percent of registered voters said Cheney won, 35 percent gave the win to Edwards, and 19 percent called it a tie. Thirty-eight percent of the viewers were Republicans, 31 percent Democrats, the rest independents. The phone survey was conducted among a random sample of 509 registered voters who watched the debate.

CBS News' poll specifically focused on uncommitted voters and found 41 percent deemed Edwards the winner, 28 percent chose Cheney, and 31 percent said it was a tie. CBS based its poll on a "nationally representative sample of 178 debate watchers ... who are either undecided about who to vote for or who have a preference but say they could still change their minds.""

I tend not to like the CBS poll.  The ABC one has more people that were polled, and you can actually see how many people really did lean a certain way, and how many of the independents each party gained.  The way a poll is taken makes a huge difference on the results.

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Draginol
Myrrander
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #80 October 6, 2004 10:31:34 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Not that it matters, I am content in my judgment. I didn't need polls to tell me that Bush lost the first one nor do I need some website poll to tell me that Cheney won this one.


BTW Blogic, I think Cheney's best line was the one where he said if you guys can't stand up to Howard Dean, how can you stand up to terrorists. I think that resonates because it's pretty obvious now that the real reason Kerry voted against the $87B was to try to out Dean Howard Dean.


Agreed on both accounts, Draginol. Kerry began campaigning against Dean by saying that anyone who didn't feel that Saddam Hussein shouldn't be in power lacked the judgement to be President. Then when Kerry realized a lot of us on the left were anti-war, he had to backtrack on the decision.
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Draginol
Draginol
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Reply #81 October 6, 2004 10:34:02 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Karma - as you are probably aware, I know something on statistical analysis.  178 people is not a viable sample for anything. The minimum you need is around 600 to 800 people depending on the quality of the questioning.
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Draginol
KarmaGirl
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Reply #82 October 6, 2004 10:43:58 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

For those who have some sense of humor about these things: Cheney suggested that people go to FactCheck.com. Oops."

Actually, I believe he said factcheck.org: http://www.factcheck.org/  Which has facts for and against both parties.  (Which he mentioned in response to Edwards allegations about Halliburton)

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Draginol
Abanamore
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Reply #83 October 6, 2004 12:05:41 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It's even in the transcripts as "check out FactCheck.com." I recorded it on my DVR and listened to it 5 times, he said .com each time.

Also, Cheney said "I have never met you till you walked onto this set". Well It seems that Cheney DID meat Edwards in the 2001 Annual National Prayer Breakfast......strange, Edwards was right next to him and his wife....
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Draginol
Abanamore
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Reply #84 October 6, 2004 2:54:08 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
After reviewing the networks Fact Checks, it appears as if Cheney isn't in sucha good light any longer. Never meeting Edwards.. Oops, 4 major broadcasted events. Ties between Iraq and Al-Qaeda? I thought this was resolved...

Check out the Fox Fact Check. I expected a GOP slanted paper to rip Edwards a new one, instead, they covered the mistakes made by Cheney
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134580,00.html

More over, I think he spun the Voting record very poorly. After reviewing the factst, It makes the VP look bad. While there is no love loss for the slams on Kerry, I felt that the bad press and the accurate facts could paint Cheney as an untrusting source for Whitehouse information in the future. The Dems are going to eat him up with new ads. "Flip-Flop" could come back to burn the GOP just as bad as it is burning the Kerry Camp.

Just my $0.02.

Undecided in MN.
Drache Zahn
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Draginol
bakerstreet
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #85 October 6, 2004 3:12:29 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"Well It seems that Cheney DID meat Edwards in the 2001 Annual National Prayer Breakfast......strange, Edwards was right next to him and his wife...."


he meant in a working capacity, not prayer breakfasts, parties, and photo-ops. Stating those three events as if they were something from Edwards' resume makes him look even more candy-ass...

and I think the word you are looking for is "meet"...

P.S. Last debate it was said over and over by Dems that focusing on such small semantic details showed that you were trying to make the best of a loss. Does that count for this debate, too?
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Draginol
Abanamore
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Reply #86 October 6, 2004 3:28:15 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The "meat" was a pun.
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Draginol
RedneckHunter
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #87 October 6, 2004 3:47:43 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
he meant in a working capacity, not prayer breakfasts, parties, and photo-ops.


Strange....I work with 1000 people on a daily basis, I have yet to "meet" all of them.
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Draginol
bakerstreet
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Reply #88 October 6, 2004 3:54:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"Strange....I work with 1000 people on a daily basis, I have yet to "meet" all of them."


Considering the VP presides over the Senate, and senators continually stand up and give speeches, make motions, propose law... well, it isn't really like working at a factory or in an office building with 1000 people, is it?

Now, if you said that you had never met the person that manages area you work in, that might be more apt, but then you'd probably not have a job long, either.
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Draginol
Pam Johnson
Join Date 08/2001
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Reply #89 October 6, 2004 4:04:56 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Dear Deference,

As someone who could be called a gray panther it has come to the point at my age that baseball, and football mean more to me than an election. I am now wheel chair bound, and get little chance to go anywhere. My TV along with my computer systems (Mac and PC) are my world. However, someone like you was at one time probably a student of mine (Elementary school and College Professor) . I have childeren (two sons) that are probably old enough to be your father. So, to make this comment short and to the point it is people like you that need to step back, and take a look at the world around you before inserting your foot into your mouth. There are those of us who went before you, and there will be many more afterwards. Here is a little friendly bit of advise: "Not everyone sees things the way you do."

You Have A Nice Day Now.

Pam
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Draginol
RedneckHunter
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Reply #90 October 6, 2004 4:06:23 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Considering the VP presides over the Senate, and senators continually stand up and give speeches, make motions, propose law... well, it isn't really like working at a factory or in an office building with 1000 people, is it? Now, if you said that you had never met the person that manages area you work in, that might be more apt, but then you'd probably not have a job long, either.


Ok, so maybe Edward's didn't make any "motions", "speeches" or "propose law". Doesn't mean he wasn't doing his job. None of us know, we were not there. I for one wont take Cheney's word for it, I can only judge what I see and experience.
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Draginol
Deference
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #91 October 6, 2004 4:13:17 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Ms. Johnson,

Thank you for the autobiography, Pam, I certainly have respect for our silver foxes and our gray panthers. This does not mean, however, that you are exempt from young opines pertaining to those such as yourself who would rather bask in diversions then take part in informing oneself of the current politics of the day, which, I would assert, affects you a bit more than a spectator sport.

Sincerely,

Nathan
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Draginol
Draginol
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Reply #92 October 6, 2004 4:20:12 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Ok, so maybe Edward's didn't make any "motions", "speeches" or "propose law". Doesn't mean he wasn't doing his job. None of us know, we were not there.

That's the whole problem. Edwards wasn't there either. That's the point.

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Draginol
blogic
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #93 October 6, 2004 4:26:50 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
As has been demonstrated in this thread, Cheney not only lied about not meeting Edwards -- on the Senate floor -- he misled America on how often he even bothers going to the Senate. He's presided over the Senate only twice in the last four years. Follow the link for evidence. If Kerry had told these lies, do you really deny you'd be making a fuss about it?
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Draginol
bakerstreet
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Reply #94 October 6, 2004 4:28:34 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"Ok, so maybe Edward's didn't make any "motions", "speeches" or "propose law". Doesn't mean he wasn't doing his job. None of us know, we were not there. I for one wont take Cheney's word for it, I can only judge what I see and experience."


Ur... that is his job, along with voting, which seems to have been a problem because, again, he wasn't there much. Also, you don't have to take Cheney's word for it, the senate attendance records he quoted are a matter of public record.
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Draginol
blogic
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Reply #95 October 6, 2004 4:58:14 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
"you don't have to take Cheney's word for it, the senate attendance records he quoted are a matter of public record."

Fair enough.

This is from a September 2003 article: "Before this year, Edwards missed just seven votes out of 1,307 in his first four years in office, Briggs said. During his five years in the Senate, Edwards voted 1,551 times out of 1,626 roll-call votes, Briggs ... or 95.4 percent."

For a Senator running for office, his attendance is actually unusually good: "Edwards, like other presidential candidates who serve in Congress, regularly misses roll-call votes as he campaigns. Edwards skipped 38 votes of the 119 tallies cast during June and July, Senate records show ... So far this year, Edwards has missed 69 votes out of 321, or about 21 percent".
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Draginol
RedneckHunter
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #96 October 6, 2004 5:15:21 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Nice Article.

In April, Edwards canceled several campaign appearances and flew from Charleston, S.C., to Washington for an unexpected vote on the Senate budget resolution, Briggs said. The GOP-backed budget passed 51-50, with Vice President Dick Cheney casting the tie-breaking vote. Edwards delayed a campaign trip through New Hampshire in May so he could stay in Washington for a close vote on a tax bill, Briggs said

I guess Cheney didn't "Meet him" there either....?
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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #97 October 6, 2004 5:18:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #94 By: BakerStreet - 10/6/2004 4:29:13 PM
"Ok, so maybe Edward's didn't make any "motions", "speeches" or "propose law". Doesn't mean he wasn't doing his job. None of us know, we were not there. I for one wont take Cheney's word for it, I can only judge what I see and experience."


Ur... that is his job, along with voting, which seems to have been a problem because, again, he wasn't there much. Also, you don't have to take Cheney's word for it, the senate attendance records he quoted are a matter of public record.


Where do you find the attendence records at? I have been searching for 3 days now and no luck
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Draginol
bakerstreet
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Reply #98 October 6, 2004 5:27:06 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
You can find a lot of current stuff at , and you might try The Senate website. There was something I was working on a few months back and I found roll calls going way back. I think it was on one or the other.
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Draginol
apdelong31
Join Date 04/2004
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Reply #99 October 6, 2004 6:04:29 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
he meant in a working capacity, not prayer breakfasts, parties, and photo-ops. Stating those three events as if they were something from Edwards' resume makes him look even more candy-ass...


As long as you're reading minds, what is Wisconsin going to try to run this week against Ohio State? The Buckeyes need a win.

I fail to understand how this is a one way street. If Edwards is more "candy-ass" (shameless WWE plug? I think so) for attending said functions, wouldn't that make Cheney more "candy-ass" as well? He was obviously there, there's plenty of photographic evidence floating around that I'd be MORE than happy to link.
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Draginol
Abanamore
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Reply #100 November 5, 2004 8:45:28 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
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