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Draginol
Draginol
Join Date 03/2001
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Cheney trumps Edwards

Debate #2

October 5, 2004 9:45:22 PM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Cheney appears to have decidedly beaten Edwards.  Edwards just appeared a little bit out of his depth. I think Edwards could have stood up well against Bush, but Cheney just looked like a seasoned pro.

I don't think this will have much affect on the polls though as the veeps just don't make that much of a difference.

I think the key sound bites were very much in Cheney's favor -- i.e. the sound bites that will get repeated will show Cheney hammering Edwards and that is where it could make a difference.

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Draginol
Myrrander
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #1 October 5, 2004 9:51:02 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Agreed. Cheney was much more precise in his answering and seemed to have a good working knowledge of the topics. Edwards stumbled and seemed to try and throw anything negative sounding he could at the veep. It didn't work.
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Draginol
COL Gene
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #2 October 5, 2004 9:54:32 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
We must have been watching different debates. I doubt that either Edwards or Cheney won. It was far closer to a draw than the Presidential debate. One thing was clear, the Bush administration has not explained the failure in Iraq, how we got into debt or why all the tax cuts have not created jobs for our growing population.

If you want to learn the facts about the past 3 3/4 years under the Bush policies read, "Four More For George W?" Look at what readers are saying about this book by going to www.amazon.com
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Grim Xiozan
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #3 October 5, 2004 10:00:22 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
I am totally impressed by Cheney, the guy can remain calm cool and collected, if Bush had just an ounce of what Cheney had, the first debate would have been different. Cheney soundly defeated Edwards no pussyfooting around it here.

- GX
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Draginol
SSG Geezer
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #4 October 5, 2004 10:01:11 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I was amazed at how Edwards got hammered on the casualty count thing. It illustrated what many people see as
a liberal fault. Edward's comments were demeaning to the Iraqis and our allies serving there.
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Draginol
blogic
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #5 October 5, 2004 10:02:24 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I agree with COL Gene: I would call this a draw, and honestly, I can't see how this could be seen as a decisive Cheney victory. As an overall feeling: I think this debate was fundamentally less interesting than the first presidential one. Everything tonight was by the numbers, and both candidates were way too on message. No surprises here.
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Draginol
Myrrander
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #6 October 5, 2004 10:06:13 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
You know, my biggest problem was Edwards spending half his time addressing issues from previous questions while ignoring the current question. He did this several times. The moderator even commented once on the fact that Edwards talked about something other than the question at hand. I can't let partisanship get in the way of admitting Cheney easily was the winner here.
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Grim Xiozan
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Reply #7 October 5, 2004 10:06:52 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
If Edwards had beaten Cheney you two would be hammering home that fact but now that it turned the other way you are quick to say it was a draw what is the deal with that?

Edward's first debate excuse is bull, after all he did debate when they had all the Democrats debate during the Democratic Primary, or does that not count?

- GX
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Mitch21
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #8 October 5, 2004 10:08:25 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
If you want to learn the facts about the past 3 3/4 years under the Bush policies read, "Four More For George W?" Look at what readers are saying about this book by going to www.amazon.com


COL- first of all, quit advertising your book! And second of all, this is about the VP debates, not your biased opinions on the president.

Back to the topic at hand-

I thought that Cheney did amazingly well! I have never seen him debate before, and was pleasantly suprised. He was very calm and collected and his experience showed. He also made Edwards look juvenile and uncommitted (in the senate- never-there senator). The comments on Edwards record, or lack therof, really made me think about his qualifactions to be Vice President of the United States.
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Draginol
Draginol
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Reply #9 October 5, 2004 10:09:09 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Reading the consensus of other sites and analysts seem to be the same consensus - Cheney won.  Not as much as Kerry beat Bush but wait till the sound bites start floating.
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Draginol
Lee1776
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #10 October 5, 2004 10:17:06 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
I agree.

You notice that after the first question Edwards didn't smile at the camera again until the final statements.

I also didn't see Chaney smile once, just a cool CEO doing his job.

I've always thought Chaney was the real President and Brush is nothing more then a puppet. But a puppet that is still getting his strings pulled by a smart Cookie is OK with me.

I also think the moderator did a good job on both side.

That's My Two Cents
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Draginol
mgosh
Join Date 01/2004
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Reply #11 October 5, 2004 10:18:20 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I have to agree Cheney was able to focus on the key points and through that he was able to trump the debate. Edwards was a good speaker he was smooth, but on several ocassions he stumbled. Cheney was able to keep his demenor throughout the debate.
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Draginol
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #12 October 5, 2004 10:27:01 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply #2 By: COL Gene - 10/5/2004 9:54:32 PM
We must have been watching different debates. I doubt that either Edwards or Cheney won. It was far closer to a draw than the Presidential debate. One thing was clear, the Bush administration has not explained the failure in Iraq, how we got into debt or why all the tax cuts have not created jobs for our growing population.

If you want to learn the facts about the past 3 3/4 years under the Bush policies read, "Four More For George W?" Look at what readers are saying about this book by going to www.amazon.com


I don't know what debate you were watching. But it obviously wasn't the same one the rest of the nation was watching! Start looking at the news channels. Every one I've looked at has Cheney winning soundly. And one of the senators(?) watching said the way Cheney beat Edwards reminding him of someone going out behind the woodshed!
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Draginol
CrispE
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #13 October 5, 2004 10:34:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Draginol:

As of 11:25 EST CNN and MSNBC Polls had Edwards ahead of Cheney by over 70% on each site. Interestingly, I saw it as even because neither man answered one question asked which was very irritating. But still NO admission of any mistakes by the administration...... Guess it will get real cold in Hell before that happens.
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Draginol
Grim Xiozan
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #14 October 5, 2004 10:36:58 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
CrispE turns out the two extreme communities were screwing around with those polls (those two being FR and DU) so those polls are not accurate in the least.

- GX
INGSOC Employee of the Month Hooray!
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Draginol
The Trellinator
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #15 October 5, 2004 10:37:36 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
What are you talking about? Currently after over 400,000 votes, msnbc.com has Edwards winning 69% to 31%. Unless that changes drastically (and I understand the sample may be biased, but it pretty closely matches what the same site said about Kerry v. Bush), most people think that Edwards defeated Cheney and I"d agree.
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Draginol
XX
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #16 October 5, 2004 10:38:59 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
What? No cheating accusations from either side? I guess VP debate isn't that important.

I missed the debate so I wouldn't know what it was like.
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Draginol
Grim Xiozan
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #17 October 5, 2004 10:39:56 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
What am I talking about just visit Free Republic or Democratic Underground, both are openly flooding those polls or do you not see them as an influence on those polls?

- GX
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Draginol
CamMeg
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #18 October 5, 2004 10:40:35 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Cheney did well although a lot of deflection was happening on both sides which annoyed me a bit. Neither followed the directions well although I do give Cheney a point for asking for more then 30 seconds to address Edwards allegations. Edwards was haing difficulty following the do not use Kerry's name apologizes then does it again not even 5 seconds later again apologizing. Is this what we are to expect as his plans in a VP?

Have a good evening~!~

~Peace,LoVe,Health & Happiness~ Extended to all
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Draginol
blogic
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #19 October 5, 2004 10:42:24 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
It appears that most people who watched the debate thought Edward won. To be honest, that surprises me. I would have called it a draw. I do think Edwards body language was probably a little better, but Cheney came off as smart and knowledgeable.
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Draginol
CrispE
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Reply #20 October 5, 2004 10:42:30 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Grim Xiosan:

Well, when I looked it was 100,000 votes or so to 18,000. Do they got that much ability to flood? Just Asking....
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Draginol
Grim Xiozan
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Reply #21 October 5, 2004 10:42:44 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=974046&mesg_id=974046 [LINK]

Check this out and tell me the polls are not influenced by Political Partisans.

- GX
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Draginol
The Trellinator
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #22 October 5, 2004 10:45:24 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
I guess I don't know what you're talking about. Are those Republican sites? Every poll I"ve looked so far, and of course this could change, jives with my honest assesment that Edwards won this thing.
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Draginol
Grim Xiozan
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #23 October 5, 2004 10:46:35 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Last time we had a debate on this DU gets 3 million hits, where FR gets about a million or equal to that, so you tell me there is no 400,000 members or bots working to influence them, come on seriously are we that dense? Do we just rule out the political partisan hackers?

I bet you saw polls last Thursday saying Bush was winning but that was not the case Kerry won, but now it's reversed you will defend the same polls who have been clearly effected by this, what the hell?

- GX
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Draginol
Grim Xiozan
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #24 October 5, 2004 10:47:54 PM
from PoliticalMachine ForumsPoliticalMachine Forums
Free Republic = Republican Partisans
Democratic Underground = Democrat Partisans

What else is there to explain, what is so hard to understand?

- GX
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Draginol
Daiwa
Join Date 07/2001
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Reply #25 October 5, 2004 10:49:52 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Edwards repeatedly dodged questions by expanding on replies to previous questions, abusing the rules, such as they were. I also think Cheney did a good job of not rising to the bait of the Halliburton accusations. Edwards' effort to tar Cheney with Halliburton's alleged transgressions, the most serious of which occurred off his watch and some of which were first addressed with corrective action on his watch, just didn't work in my opinion. While Kerry scored points here and there, I think Cheney was the clear winner.

Kerry & Edwards keep saying over and over "We have a plan for (insert problem here) that will (insert result here)." I have yet to hear what any of those plans actually are. They keep harping on the administration having had "no plan for winning the peace" in Iraq, as if they would have had one, though they offer nothing in the way of a plan beyond platitudes about doing it better, whatever it is. This is the real problem with the Kerry/Edwards campaign - it consists completely of empty rhetoric.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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