BigDogBigFeet BigDogBigFeet

MP Game isn't a true game

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MP Game isn't a true game

Players learn exploits

from Sins Forums
I decided to write this because I can't see this MP mode as even being a game it isn't.  If this were cards you might have some sense of a game and there would be the random happening of card distribution and player ability that could constitute some feeling of participation and fun.  I have discovered that so called players aren't really interested in playing they're interested in stacked odds and exploting the unknowing noobs.  I will never partcicpate in any further so called MP game again.  Because there was no real game at all.  Just a deliberate exploitation that some people called a game.  Nor do I believe that there is any possibility for acheiving any sense of entertainment through such a process.  You should have been on the receiving end of what was little more than a setup.  First they choose Vesari.  Cramped map they were completely familiar with I'm sure.  Both opponents were immediately on my home planet with their full fleets using full battle caps and not mother ships within the first 5 mins of the so called game and they timed the first pirate raid perfectly by dumping all their funds on the pirate bribe to send them my way.  My partner was no where to be found.  So no possibility for me at all.  I don't call that a game.  I call that an exploitive bunch of bullshit not worth participating in.  Good bye to SoSE and good bye to all so called MP computer games.  I refuse to be the sacrificial scape goat to this sort of bull shit.  No thanks.
multiplayer
65,217 views 104 replies
Reply #51 from Sins Forums Top
If you want a game that is widely popular with new players then what you have to have is an MP mode that the odds cannot be stacked against the unwitting.

You know, I read this and think, "This is what happens when kids grow up in a society that thinks it's wrong to keep score in Little League."
Reply #52 from Sins Forums Top
Dude, how long did it take you to type that, Limz. Lol. Credit anyway. I would love to have a conversation with you, you sound extremely intelligent, not to mention nice. =P

I feel the need to repeat something. Strategy comes much more in to play in larger maps. In smaller maps, it is much more tactical play. Of course on small maps you're going to get rushed. Small maps and large maps require to entirely different types of play.

And here's the kicker. If you survive their full fleets(I don't even know what that MEANS. Their full caps? I'm asking for clarifcation. There's a severe limit on what they're capable of doing. I can't help but feel there there is some exaggeration on your part. Please clarify what happened with their fleet. How big was it, how many caps, what level were there.) you could be able to easily demolish them, since they have no real economy, and probably no research, and they just wasted all their infrastructure on a tactic that failed. Easy win.

Play larger maps. Don't judge the game on one game, when the game was obviously not even suited to you in the first place. Large maps are MUCH MUCH MUCH more forgiving to mistakes.
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Reply #53 from Sins Forums Top
You know, I read this and think, "This is what happens when kids grow up in a society that thinks it's wrong to keep score in Little League."


Yeah. The thing is, the odds will ALWAYS ALWAYS be stacked. You're never going to have people who are at the exact same skill level, have the exact same knowledge about the maps and game, and have the exact same willingness to play.

You can make the situation better, to some extent, but odds are, the better player will always win. That's not stacking the odds, because they're BETTER THAN YOU. You can't avoid that. You'll be better than some, and some will be better than you. At the risk of sounding belligerent, you seem unable to deal with this.
Reply #54 from Sins Forums Top
Eliminate the exploit of prior knowledge of the map to level the playing field would be a move towards fairness.

It's not an exploit. With experience, you'll soon learn the layout of the more popular maps and will be able to use that knowledge to your advantage.

Pirate raids that are invisible as to timing would be an improvement in my opinion.

Why not remove pirates altogether, then? Because making the timing invisible simply makes it the luck of the draw as to who happens to have the highest bounty. Letting everybody know exactly when the next pirate raid will launch keeps the playing field level, which is exactly what you're asking for.

The attitude displayed by your numerous responses of this type are purely exploitive

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Reply #55 from Sins Forums Top
Lol, one more post.

I am reminded of a short story, but for the life of me, cannot remember who was the author.

It was about a world where everyone was equal. The prettier you were, the uglier the mask they gave you. The stronger you were, the more weight they made you carry around, the smarter you were, the worse implant(It'd make a horrible noise every 10 seconds so you couldn't have coherent though) you were given, and so on.

Everyone is equal. But not everyone is equal at everything.
Reply #56 from Sins Forums Top
Oh, and so people have a chance to digest this a bit more, these opponents did absolutely no asteroid or planet development during these first 5 to 10 minutes. All their monies were spent on fleet and pirate bribe timed to their arrival at my home planet. My early effort to explore my nearest asteroid and 1 planet, then begin development simply fit into their "Strategy". Wasted resources, all monies should have been spent on fleet and defend home world to counter this. Not my idea of a game. Way too much all out warfare if you ask me.

If that's true then look at it this way: If you had been prepared with a suitable counter (and you should have seen this coming if you had your scouts out doing their job) then you would have caught them with their pants down, and their underdeveloped empires would have been easy pickings for you and your partner.

You see how this works? Learn from your mistakes and you'll get better.

Again this "Strategy" they employed depends on their prior knowledge of and choice of the map. Randomize the map and this exploit goes away.

Then why not host your own games in the future and choose "random" for the map type? I'm sure you'll do much better (yeah, I'm being a little sarcastic here).
Reply #57 from Sins Forums Top
Ok, ok, lol, honestly i dont even play this game and i got here from clicking an ad (the ads are really flashy and this game looks really good in general) on another gaming site, but i read this post and couldn't stop rofling for like 20 minutes and then i composed myself and clicked around the site. This is a direct quote from the "gameplay" section of this. very. site.

"Your high-level goals are to explore, expand, exploit, exterminate and manipulate adversaries"

lulzors.
Reply #58 from Sins Forums Top
So you think you're gonna buy it, blamin8or?
Reply #59 from Sins Forums Top
I play huge FFA, 4v4, 5v5 because I like my games long. Maybe you need to try that.
Reply #60 from Sins Forums Top
From the original post's description, BigDogBigFeet I think you were just soundly beat by players who had an effective strategy and good execution. What do you expect from a team of two players when you go at it with somebody you don't know at all?

Just because you couldn't counter an effective strategy don't blame the game. Try playing StarCraft or WC3 on BattleNet and you'll see the same exact thing.
Reply #61 from Sins Forums Top

I like the idea of a ceasefire at the start.
i also like the idea to start with planitary defenses at your homeworld.

I think both these ideas would help all players actually get into the game a little rather than trying to have 35 min rush matches.

I'm sorry if i'm repeating anyone, i cannot read posts by people that look as long as a book.
Reply #62 from Sins Forums Top
A ceasefire won't help anything, it'll just move the goal posts. For any set of rules the game runs by, people are going to analyse them to try and gain an advantage on the opponent.
Take the ceasefire for example: I take it this applies only to other players, and not the independent planets you want to take over at the start? Well in that case, I'm gonna come and take planets near you before I take them near me. Then I'm going to work back toward my home. You aren't allowed to take them off me, are you, because of the ceasefire? In fact, are you even allowed in my systems? That seems unfair if you are, since you can scout me out freely, which is something no power wants a soon-to-be opponent to be capable of. So I just walled you into a tiny box, and by the time the ceasefire ends I'm gonna have a much better eco, and therefor fleet, than you.
And then you say: well, how about you are only allowed to expand to neighbouring planets? And you've restricted the available options yet again, and I'm gonna go away and find the next thing that I can take advantage of, again, and then you're gonna ban that too... Never mind that even if we just played the ceasefire head-up, with me taking my planets and you taking yours then I'm still gonna have a bigger fleet than you when the ceasefire ends because my build order is better than yours (that, after all, is what rushing is: getting a better fleet than your opponent, quicker). I'm casting myself as the competitive player here, not suggesting I'm leet or anything. I'll leave that to HunterX :)
Reply #63 from Sins Forums Top

Then planetary defenses need to be cheaper...or maybe with each planet you get some free. Taking a planet should be a huge deal.
Reply #64 from Sins Forums Top
Sorry, my point was more that no matter how you change the game people are going to find out ways to use the system to their advantage, which I think was beside your point :)

If you're interested in a more defensive game then you could use the new options in 1.03 to tailor the game to the one you want: I suggest changing build rate and ship speed.
Reply #65 from Sins Forums Top
Ah sideshow and rayredlab. I think you are expressing perfectly why I will not be having anything further to do with this MP style of play. I'm not interested in your characterizations of me or what I am doing. I pointed out what is clearly an exploit. I don't care what you think because you don't really care what I think. Which has been the way of it around here with a large number of these so called responses.


you wrong i do care what you think maybe i should not have been so rough with my words
my point was that there are a lot of people online who like to play the game just
the way you like it you just need to find them just go to IRC #sins chat and you wil find them there thats all what i am saying ;) 
Reply #66 from Sins Forums Top
Never mind. I give up. I'm unwilling to participate in this at all. What an annoyance.
Reply #67 from Sins Forums Top
How will we survive without overblown self important pompous fogey #2305473?
Reply #68 from Sins Forums Top
This guy is a ideot he shod have plad more games and not bene a emo abaut lusin
Reply #69 from Sins Forums Top
Never mind. I give up. I'm unwilling to participate in this at all. What an annoyance.


You've "given up" like 3-4 times already. You done for real this time?
Reply #70 from Sins Forums Top

Ok, ok, lol, honestly i dont even play this game and i got here from clicking an ad (the ads are really flashy and this game looks really good in general) on another gaming site, but i read this post and couldn't stop rofling for like 20 minutes and then i composed myself and clicked around the site. This is a direct quote from the "gameplay" section of this. very. site."Your high-level goals are to explore, expand, exploit, exterminate and manipulate adversaries"lulzors.


Yea thats what I was thinking.

Reply #71 from Sins Forums Top
This is why a separate competitive ladder (or something similar) is a must for 1.04. Casual and competitive gamers should not be forced into playing together.


Agree, as it ruins the multiplayer experience for new players.

I haven't play online, but from the people I've talked that played against friends had a lot of fun.

When you join a game always ask if the random map is a map created for this match or is it a repeat map. This shouldn't be a problem. For the situation about being attacked too early, play on a bigger map or play the AI teamed up with friends.
Reply #72 from Sins Forums Top
Wow, reading endless diatribes has exhausted me!
I was going to suggest to the OP that we play a few games, but I can't bring myself to. Having played MP online for what seems like ages, I can say that the learning curve is usually painful, and there are always children around. Stick it out and things get better.
In the meantime, anyone else want a game?
Reply #73 from Sins Forums Top
Excuse me JinxofSin. If you wanted to participate in that kind of stupidity then do it. If you want a game that is widely popular with new players then what you have to have is an MP mode that the odds cannot be stacked against the unwitting. To eliminate this sort of BS, as I said from my end of it, so that the playing field is more level some simple sensible changes could be made. All open MP maps should be random instead of pre-chosen by the "Host" eliminating map specific so called "strategies" that only the host and his partner can take advantage of. Second all open games should have random player assignments. That way each player starts with the same capacity to develop a real strategy for game play. Third pirate raid timing should be invisible to all players and random. Partner games should be done in a separate lobby for those who wish to team compete. Please notice how this so called strategy that they used relied on knowledge that only the host and his partner could have. The layout of the map for example and the pre-arranged strategy of eliminate the unwitting dupe through whatever blah blah blah they had prior exchanged. They also timed dumping the pirate bribe perfectly with their arrival in my home world. Way too over the top in my opinion to even be classified as a game. Simply a pre-arranged bunch of shit that will push new people away. So there you have it. Like it or not that's what that kind of BS does.


Dude, chill. If you really hate online then play AI. If you hate that do not play sins. It's as simple as that.
Reply #74 from Sins Forums Top
These are the kind of people who hack their lag times on Starcraft so they appear to be all "Greens" but end up being on really crappy connections. Or the type who lure people into "4v4" games, with 4 friends on one team and 3 bots (or other friends) on the other team who all drop just under a minute so they don't get the loss, but you do.

I really can't say what drives these people, in many cases they really do get a hard-on from ruining the game for everyone else, they think it's funny. You get mad and storm off and they sit in their dark little computer rooms and laugh and talk about how bad they ticked you off. Then they log out and troll the forums for awhile and cause havoc and unrest there.

Just chalk it up to people who really have nothing better to do with their time than to ruin everyone else's entertainment and utterly destroy an otherwise mediocre game. That's why I haven't even bothered to attempt MP after reading these forums, because I could see for myself what kind of nonsense likely goes on in Multiplayer. So, I have to agree with you, MP isn't worth it. I just learned the lesson by research instead of getting virtual-raped by a couple of children.

As far as some of the comments I've seen here, like "Awesome, you gave them $40 and not using IC's bandwidth." Well, all I have to say is I am interested to see exactly what type of community IC chooses to cater to and exactly who they decide to allow to stick around. If they are not willing to put forth some effort to "rake out the trash" then you are probably saving yourself a great deal of misery by leaving now.

Eventually it will clean up, however, both through patches, balance fixes, and the children finding a new target game to exploit and ruin for everyone else. The trash does have it's uses in that they tend to flagrantly abuse problems until they become undeniably obvious and later get fixed. Starcraft wasn't a perfect game when it first came out either, and we have Korea to thank for the aesthetic beauty it is today. So thank them for demonstrating how broken MP is and wait for it to get fixed.

Or...play SP. I've been having enough fun with that. It's a good distraction.

Might I suggest Battlefield 2142, BTW? It's a pretty addicting online game. First person shooter but....offers a good challenge, some RPG style "upgrades" as you level up, but nothing that makes advanced players unbalanced against new players, just gives them some new weapon options. Just a suggestion.

Planetside also might suit your fancy for space faring multiplayability.