On Piracy and PC Gaming

This is definitely worth the read. It brings up many many valid points that not only myself but others have often wished were expressed. Very well done.

Two Thumbs Up!

This post for tracking purposes since the one Frogboy references seems not to be tracked on this system.

Related threads are:

Piracy: The Gaming Industry in Perspective & the Coming Storm

Iron Lore Entertainment's copy protection bites them on the butt

I don't want to imagine the sum you've already lost due to piracy. The PC would be a much more liked gaming device if there were a copy protection that couldn't be cracked.

No unbreakable copy protection exists for anything in the history of the digital world that was popular enough to warrant buying. I know people who have modded consoles of every kind, and piracy of those is getting worse. The only advantage is that the companies know the hardware and don't have to generalize, but there is a lot more piracy than there used to be. There's just the plain fact that when you give somebody the access they need to play a game, there'll be some guy who can mess up all your safeguards and pirate the games. The only way to avoid having somebody getting their jollies from breaking your hypothetical cripplingly secure DRM is to not actually give them your product for their money, a policy that is illegal in nearly every jurisdiction ever. It's either that or giving people enough value for their product that the sales take the sting of piracy and ensuring that your copy protection doesn't drive people to pirate your product.

Forgive the rant.

I know people that pirated Sins. I did it myself acctually. Just to get a demo. A real demo, a demo how demo's should be. Try it *all* out. And if I like it, I buy it. That's how it should be in my opinion. (I liked Sins, yes :))

I am moderately sure I already posted this in another thread but here goes again.

Piracy is a good thing. The # of games I have bought based on WHETHER OR NOT THEY WOULD RUN on my computer thanks to piracy is... well, almost all of them (with the exception of the Dawn of War series of games). I didn't pirate Sins, but I thought about it, instead I just pre-ordered the collectors edition when I saw the min-specs.

I play with a group of players online (5-6 people) and ORIGINALLY I was the ONLY legitimate copy of sins. Now they ALL own it. Even the guy in (Estonia? I think it is, that East European country) who had to get it DirectDL since they don't even SELL it in stores near there.

Yeah, theres probably a few assholes out there who haven't and never will buy their copy - but will play the game. They aren't hurting stardock though, there are ALWAYS people who will do that - and they can't even waste Stardock's bandwidth or anything cause you can't get on ICO without a legitimate Cd-key.

Now, Stardock's method of getting access to multiplayer and whatnot is a step AHEAD of most of the competition, its not like they couldn't do it too.

That said, if the rest of the PC industry would just STOP GIVING US Eye-candy without half-decent fucking storyline or coding (8 patches anyone?)... They'd get sales just like Sins. I would pay MORE than 50 dollars for half-decent fucking PC games.

If it ever happened that a game as good as Sins was released every month... I would damn well buy it - every month. Even poor as I am - but they don't. Besides Soulstorm (which was very dissapointing), SoASE and Starcraft II, I don't expect any good PC games this year.

I simply do my best to not play with pirates. I am a software developer myself, I will not steal from my colleagues. Or did you mean the other kind of pirates?

Well gaming piracy a bit different from software piracy (especially dependent on software, things like ACAD and movie and image editing software are EXPENSIVE and you KNOW they're going to be using it/getting monies worth if they know about it and need it), different from movie/song piracy... I don't support the rest, just PC gaming piracy. I think we were just speaking of JUST game piracy.

Fantastic article, I am a software developer and refuse to waste time and money on DRM in any of the products I work on, I not only believe in software piracy I think it is the single greatest contributing factor to the current popularity of the Windows OS.... putting aside the fact for the moment that Bill pirated the original code for DOS back in '79 /.. Windows only became the defacto standard OS after millions of people took their floppy copy's of windows 3.1 home from work and installed it on thier own pc's Microsoft knows and depends on this behaviour for each new release. I Have a pirated copy of Sins... (Just heard the buzz about it yesterday so I grabbed a copy... I've played it for a total of about 3 hours now and have already decided I'll be buying it come payday. Except for a few games like COD4 .. Orangebox.. etc which have already won my loyalty with previous titles, I will ALWAYS pirate a game before I dish out $80 Canadian for something that I am unsure I can get to run on my system. Kudo's to stardock for finally giving me what Relic tried to give me years ago(they did a great job given the tech of the time but Sins, is what Homeworld should have been) thank you and you'll definately be getting my money for this title ..... as an added bonus I've always snickered at Windowblinds as a silly toy but I will give it some serious consideration now that I have been introduced to the quality coding that obviously exists in stardock products... hell I may even shell out for it as well..... thanks for a great game and thanks even more for an open and informed opinion and discussion on the subject of piracy.

Hooray for common sense! I get so sick and tired of all these, "pirates destroy everything" rants. Galactic Civ and Sins both have been a huge success and they have minimal copy protection. All copy protection does is hurt end users and give money to copy protection (thug) companies. Pirates *ALWAYS* get around the protection.

I'm a loyal paying customer of Stardock games because they don't use this crap! They support users by beating pirates with features instead of crappy copy protection.

Honestly,the main reason i want this game is the constant support,no DRM and innovative gameplay.It's much better to have the disc on my shelf than my DVD ROM 24/7.With constant support,this game gonna be even awesome as time pass by.I have saw the changelog and im satisfied with the new changes which add new features to the game,instead of just fixing the screw up stuff.

Im definitely getting Sins when it's in Australia.This is what Homeworld should be-Interplanetary combat.I might drop Soul Storm if the demo really impress me till it suxs my life.

I just hope you guys will add the z-axis into the game which allows the units to fly up and down and also rotating planets around the star.Then,this game is perfect.

being someone who will most likely end up as an academic i think that everyone should have access to any information they want whether thats software, music, books, news whatever, but i don't think this freedom is unconditional you must respect the creators rights in that you must make it clear that he or she made the info... "piracy" gives people access to stuff and in a way it is a good thing because it lets you chose what you want to support and doesn't force you to thought money at people or corporations that don't deserve it.... this choice (assuming that you actually want to support great developers and thinkers like stardock) is probably the best way of advancing games and other software

sorry for the rantiness

Actually the Z axis is already in the game, go into your controls config and just bind a key for it   

If you didn't pay for it, don't use it.

Idiots who can't get this would of course whine if someone was to steal their house, their car, but when it comes to other's property, their fine.

Frogboy said

I agree with this statement and it pisses me off. I stopped playing shooter games (FPS) back with BF1942 and Red Orchestra. I just think the concept is stupid and boring. Going around and slinging around your crosshairs and pressing the mouse button gets really old really fast, and they continue to pump out these boring games for the PC. Leave those stupid games for console systems. The PC & Keyboard is for Generals. Sins is the kind of game Generals need.

I prefer more control and strategy. That's what a PC game should be about. That's what Sins is! Perhaps it's because I'm a lover of Grand Strategy. I love these kinds of games, and it's EXTRMELY rare to find one.

I also think there is a conspiracy to kill the pc gaming market to enhance the console market. Evil forces are at work here. Perhaps it is they who exaggerate the forthcoming doom and gloom of piracy.

Hi there, I just wanted to add my comments to this thread.

I wanted to try out a new game the other day, so I went on my favourite torrent website and decided to browse for games. I sorted the list to show torrents with the most seeders on top and found Sins of a Solar Empire as number 1. I had never heard of this game, but thought I would give it a shot since so many people where downloading and sharing it.

I tried the game for a couple of days now and I have to say it's one of the best games I have ever played. So I just purchased the collectors edition box set version of the game, and feel very good about doing so.

I can imagine many will look down on me for illegally downloading games. But my point is that I probably would never have heard of this game if it wasn't so popular on the torrent website I use.

I think this is a good example of how removing copy protection can sometimes be beneficial and even lead to better revenue for gaming producers.

All my thanks to the Stardock / Ironclad team for making such a wonderfull game.

Speak for yourself on that one -- I enjoy FPS games from time to time, but I would never even tolerate doing them on a console. Can't do it without my trusted mouse.

Of course I am speaking for myself. I'm certainly not speaking for you or the guy next to you.

FPS games are dumb and boring, in my humble 27 years of computer gaming experience. They are for mindless zombies with no concept of grand strategy. They are for grunts and peons. RTS games, on the other hand, are for Generals & Commanders! Leave those fps games to the peasants.

The reason why more people play FPS games is because most people are not natural born commanders, which is required to enjoy RTS games. Most people are grunts by instinct and therefore genetically enjoy the grunt work much better. They simply don't enjoy commanding a multitude of units. They would prefer to run around mindlessly and try to take the objective which has been designated for them. They simply do not enjoy leading and commanding. There will always be more FPS gamers than RTS gamers for this genetic reason. Some of them will mature out of the FPS genre and into the RTS genre as they get older and more experienced with gaming.

I've played (and mastered) plenty of FPS games and they're just stupid. I will not be buying anymore.

Unfortunately, when you make a comment like "FPS games are dumb and boring," you're not just speaking for yourself, but you're actually implying that people who play these games are dumb and boring. Oh wait, you didn't imply it, you said, "They are for grunts and peons."

I'd think that if you've been playing computer games for 27 years that you would've had a bit more maturity by now, and perhaps phrased your comments differently. I'm 38, thus have been playing games for at least that long as well, and find your comments sad and misguided. Anyone who's been playing for that long should've realized by now that there are games for all types of people, and to label anyone in such a dismissive matter is quite shortsighted.

Yes, I play FPS games. And RTS games. And TBS games. And even casual games from time-to-time. They all have their pluses and minuses. FPS games hold a special place for me because I personally believe they're derived from some of the great twitch arcade games that were popular in the late 70s and early 80s. Designers just figured out a way to make it more realistic by moving to a first person PoV, much like some driving (Night Driver) and flight based games (Tail Gunner, Star Wars in the arcade). Great stuff. Pity you don't get it.

-HM

I hate to be the troll here, but I bet Kruelgor feels that way because he gets fraged every time he joins a FPS FFA. Plenty of people play and enjoy FPS and most of them would agree it requires great skills to be a good FPS player, me being one of them. Before you go and outright call FPS gamers "grunts by instinct" "peons" "mindless zombies", you should consider that MANY of the top strategy gamers are also top FPS gamers and enjoy both.

Anyway,I don't thing this has much to do with the OP.. lets get off this thread or stay on topic, I think?

You would lose money on your bet. FPS games are a piece of cake. Takes little brain power. If you've mastered one then you can pretty much master any of them since they're all pretty much the same. A dime a dozen.

Any 5 year old who can put the cross-hairs on the enemy and click the mouse button can play FPS.

I'm not saying these things to offend anyone. I'm just stating the truth. If it offends you then that is your problem. I love to speak the truth no matter who it offends. The world needs more of it in this era of political correctness.

What especially delights me is when an angry mob gets mad at me me because they can't handle the truth (they usually rebuttle with some unfounded stupid assumption like the guy above). It is self gratifying when I have offended these truth-denyers, yet it is a step in the right direction. If there were no truth in it then no one would get angry. When people get angry then I know I've struck a nerve of truth.

I love it. irrnt, you are not the troll, Kruelgor is. Once one starts saying things like his last post (coupled with the other things he said above), it's clear that he's simply trying to upset people, because his logic is so, well, illogical, that it now makes me laugh. Opinion and truth are two different things when it comes to gaming genre preference. Only five year olds think they're the same.

Sadly, I fell for these antics, but I won't again.

And yes, what the heck does any of this have to do with piracy?

-HM

... Deleting my retort to Krue... lets stay on topic... note to stupid self: stop taking the bait.

Nope. I still stand by what I originally implied. People who love FPS games over RTS games are mindless zombies. Indeed.

This is why the magazines favor those types of games over RTS games since everyone qualifies for FPS games. RTS games, on the other hand, requires a special type of person.

He's also completely full of it because I'm sure I could fairly easily find three different people, one good in Counter-Strike, one Unreal Tournament, and one Quake III, and they'd all beat him soundly in these games. Yes, even though they..."Take[sic] little brain power. If you've mastered one then you can pretty much master any of them since they're all pretty much the same. A dime a dozen."

But there would just be excuses as to why he lost, so why am I even bothering continuing to feed...

EDIT: Sorry for responding to a post you deleted. And I'm sorry that he's continuing to push classic troll behavior. The old "if I repeat something often enough it must be true" category. I haven't seen any actual facts yet that prove FPS games are easy, and anyone and everyone can play them perfectly.

Having discussions with people like this is just stressful and a waste of time. You win! Feel all big now? And go ahead and have the last word and post after me; I'm fine with it. I won't respond about FPS games in this thread again.

-HM