Sinner's Digest: February 20, 2008

Piracy is a boogeyman

from Sins Forums

imageWe're in week 2 since the release of Sins of a Solar Empire and it's been quite an adventure. We've got a lot going on, here's some highlights...

  • In the first week or so, it sold more copies than Galactic Civilizations II sold in its first month which is saying a lot.  I don't know its relative sales ranking but it's in the top 3 best sellers at Gamestop, EB Games, Best Buy, and Amazon.com. I know it's doing well at Walmart and Target since they've gone through their entire initial stockings entirely a couple of times.

  • We're working on v1.03. We want to get it out sooner rather than later and then focus on v1.04 which will be a bit more in-depth of an update. 1.03 will have AI updates, AI replacing dropped players in multplayer, smart AI surrendering, some updates to Ironclad Online and a number of other tweaks. We're going to start putting it through QA tomorrow but we don't have a definitive release date other than hopefully in the next week or two.

  • We're having a Game Night this Friday starting at 6pm EST on Ironclad Online. There will be Stardock people and Ironclad people playing online that night. We'll be helping show people how to play the game, give tips, help people work through any connection issues and of course, playing.

  • I saw an article at IGN about how PC developers are blaming piracy as the reason some high profile games aren't selling in the quantities they should.  As some of you know, Stardock's "main" business is in the PC software realm so we have a bit different outlook on market dynamics.  Here's the deal: Piracy is a problem, no doubt about it. It does cost sales. But it isn't the driving reason for lost sales, it's the size of the market.  Sins of a Solar Empire is outselling some higher profile games not just because it's a "great game" but because it runs on a vastly larger number of PCs. 

    For console advocates out there, ask yourself how well a given game would sell if it required players to run out and buy a $300 upgrade to their console to play the game?  That's essentially what a lot of high profile PC game developers expect.  When Ironclad and Stardock were working on Sins, we made a conscious decision that the game would not require potential gamers to upgrade their systems.  That meant we couldn't have things like moving turrets or whatever but it means that the size of the market was much larger.  No matter how good your game is, if people can't play it, you will always be limited.  The number of people willing to upgrade PCs for games is not that large.  If you want to sell lots of copies of your PC game, make sure it runs on a lot of machines. 

  • And lastly, the Sins of a Solar Empire MyColors theme is now available. If you bought the Collector's Edition (which is the only version we sell direct digitally or box-wise) then you get the MyColors theme for free. Click on the update game button to get it (it's one of the reasons why the direct download version is $5 more than the retail).  To learn more, see this post.

That's all for now! Cheers!

46,573 views 47 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Wow. Thank you for speaking the truth about the piracy issue. I personally bought a top of the line PC two years ago, and I can't run a lot of new games today well at all. It's the one thing which puts me off PC gaming, the one thing thats making me buy console games instead of PC games.
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
I hope more PC game developers follow Stardock's lead and choose innovative ways to combat piracy without treating paying customers like criminals. And I don't mean the "limited install" type of copy protection like was used in BioShock...that is going backwards as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for a great game and awesome support. I'm looking forward to version 1.03.
Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
FYI: In the first paragraph of the 4th bullet of the article, you write: "But it isn't not the driving reason for lost sales." This is a double negative and means it IS the driving reason for lost sales.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
"In the first week or so, it sold more copies than Galactic Civilizations II told in its first month which is saying a lot."
There is a spelling mistake. told => sold.

Love Galciv2 :) Love SoaSE also but right now I am looking forward to patches.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
YEah man..really..really tx 4 the game..played last night...got to big..got confused all over..but the main thing..it still run ok..atlhough a bit lag..but much better than any new released game i played nowadays...

and you really ROCKS!!!
i totally agree with 4th bullet...i mean..great games but can't be played??so what...
those things really puts me off

You dev's has done a really great job...tx guys(n gals)...in the developers team..
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

FYI: In the first paragraph of the 4th bullet of the article, you write: "But it isn't not the driving reason for lost sales." This is a double negative and means it IS the driving reason for lost sales.

Ah, typo. Fixed. thanks!

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
I am a big fan of what SD is doing in terms of Stardock Central and game downloads. Not to mention the incredible support SD and Ironclad provide for games and bang for the buck.

Big thanks and keep it up guys!
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
FYI: In the first paragraph of the 4th bullet of the article, you write: "But it isn't not the driving reason for lost sales." This is a double negative and means it IS the driving reason for lost sales.

actually, one should say that its a triple negative, and is indeed the driving reason for lost sales.

ah, I love semantics.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
FYI: In the first paragraph of the 4th bullet of the article, you write: "But it isn't not the driving reason for lost sales." This is a double negative and means it IS the driving reason for lost sales.actually, one should say that its a triple negative, and is indeed the driving reason for lost sales.ah, I love semantics.


"Is not a flame"


If you spend any time reading Plato, Like I did for college, you learn quickly the man lived for semantics.


Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
So... no moving turrets.... ever?.. if you say no..i'm going to cry... :'(
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
(I tried using the edit button for my previous post but it wouldn't work, 404 error)

Chris Taylor said -
"When you look at the sales of really hardcore games like Crysis and you think, "Wow, those games should have sold a lot more," you realize that's probably due in large part to piracy. And you realize that a game like Crysis would have done its true numbers if it had launched on console first."

All i have to say is... No.. i didn't buy Crysis for two reasons.
1. Because as said in this very post, it barely runs on my PC and i don't want to spend AUD$600 to get a Nvidia8800GTX to play it.
2. It's not even that good of a game. I played the demo on my pc(at medium settings), got bored and didn't even finish it.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
I saw an article at IGN about how PC developers are blaming piracy as the reason some high profile games aren't selling in the quantities they should.


Interesting fact: Bioshock's Xbox 360 version was pirated ABSURDEDLY more than the PC version. I believe when I saw it at launch day, there were 26,000 people leeching the Xbox 360 version, and only about 1,500 some leeching the PC version.

Here's my two cents. First of all, nobody has actually published piracy NUMBERS that are NOT a fictional 'lost sales' report. Nobody has reported "X many PC games were downloaded by unique IPs" or "X many Xbox games were downloaded between Jan and Mar". These stats *ARE* traceable, and honestly I think that if they asked the Pirate Bay to simply keep anonymous stats (which they already do - TorrentSpy reported that less than 20% of piracy is video games - 50% are TV shows), that'd be the best barometer of piracy, as they have no reason to exaggerate or water down numbers.

However, because they don't give these numbers, and instead complain that they lost $45 BERJILLION dollars *AND* all have cancer because of piracy, they know that these numbers simply don't compare to the percentage of sales. So rather than actually publish a comparison that would render their arguments null and void, they blame their bad sales on their $45 BERJILLION loss, because a crappy game nobody wanted like UT3 flopped like a dying fish.

I personally believe the Business Software Association is simply trying to scare people with these reports to justify a more draconian DMCA, which is already a complete crock of shit.

Frogboy - there's an idea I'm going to submit to you - try asking torrent sites for that - totally anonymous stats that they host themselves. The problem is we need a comparison to real, actual factual sales, but I guess people don't like to give that number out (maybe because it's embarrassing sometimes?)
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
Piracy is a huge problem. Most of my friends who have played Sins have done so because "it fell off the back of the truck". What does this mean though? I doubt they would have gone out and bought the game like myself. It's selfish, but I'm not a fan of piracy for one main reason: There's less people to play online with. The best defence against piracy is to make a really compelling online game and make it worth paying for.

As for the system requirements, I'm loving it. I can play sins on my ancient laptop and my decently stocked gaming rig. The flexibility is great.

Oh and for the record, I love Crysis and I found it a ton of fun
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
Most of my friends who have played Sins have done so because "it fell off the back of the truck". What does this mean though?

It means it's not really a "lost sale". They never intended on buying it, and so the sale was never going to occur, hence it could never be lost. But that's just mincing and twisting words and concepts, no doubt the developers/producers/distributors think differently :P

Personally, I don't have any need or desire to pirate games unless there is a really good reason (eg, not for sale any more(Stars!) or not available in my country(why can a company on the other side of the globe decide what i can and can't buy?!!??(THQ on Steam for example!))).

PS: Hope you are rolling in money because you didn't pay the con artists at SecurROM, I'm certainly thankful every day because i don't need the CD in the drive to play.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Very good news indeed. I personally love Stardock, which is odd because I hate STEAM with a passion. Why do I need a TSR sucking up my resources just to play a game, makes no sense to me whatsoever.

As has been iterated before, piracy is NOT the huge problem so many publications make it out to be, and using that as an excuse for poor sales is a load of garbage. System requirements play a large part, but the biggest thing I feel makes a difference is originality. Sure Crysis looks great, but it offers nothing new to the FPS genre as a whole. IMHO, it's pretty much a tech demo used for bragging rights by people whom are better off financially than the average gamer. Nothing new is offered, it's just Far Cry (which did add some new twists) with updated graphics. Ho-hum.

Sins is a great take on the 4x genre, with good graphics that runs on a huge variety of systems old and new. I have been, and will continue to, recommend it to any RTS or 4X fans I run across.

Keep it up guys. Oh and, off topic here, but could you please consider filling in some of the backstory eventually? I'd like to know what's chasing the Vasari...
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
would it be possible to get a 1.03 changelog once it goes into Q&A?
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Ya crysis is good but if you saw the demo on G4TV they were barely able to play the game on their UBER Gaming rig "...Which aint no slouch..." stated by Adam Sessler. That shit in itself is the reason i dont wanna pay $1k every year just to upgrade my video, mb, hd, ram, cpu or all the above. Ya "no slouch..." that'll be the day
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
Interesting fact: Bioshock's Xbox 360 version was pirated ABSURDEDLY more than the PC version. I believe when I saw it at launch day, there were 26,000 people leeching the Xbox 360 version, and only about 1,500 some leeching the PC version.


Bioshock "copy protection" was an achievment in absurd itself. I wonder how many potential customers they lost because of that. Not mentioning that game itself was, imo, a thorough disappointment - felt like DX:IW reloaded.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
A few things I wish to say: I have a very expensive computer; $3000 total to date. I play Crysis on full very-high DX9.0c (with DX10 glitch,lol) with typically 40fps and I adore that game. But every time I flip it on, I seem to find myself more attentive to the average frame rate than killin' those damn koreans and aliens. This isnt the case with Sins. I admire Stardock because for once there is a game out there that fucuses primarily on gameplay and producing a product that everyone can play and have fun with rather than pulling a Crysis and making a game just to show off a cool new engine and graphical prowess. I have even got Sins playing on my 2001 computer, Pentium 4 @ 2.0GHz, 7600gs and 512 RAM. Now I can kick the hell out of my girlfriend (who likes the Advent I might add) on Lan battles!!! HOW COOL IS THAT!! So go Stardock. Although those rotating turrets would have been pretty damn cool, I won't deny it. As for the patch, I like that you are going to release it soon, because I can not wait. Please don't go down the path of Crysis and make me wait A LONG FREAKING TIME between tiny useless patches for a game that needs some SERIOUS PATCHING. As for the Piracy, well, I completely agree. People don't want to buy a game that may not work well on their 3-day old computer (which by today's standards, is pretty old). If you know a game will work perfect, people will be willing to dish out the bucks and get a genuine version. Stardock, how did you get so damn smart? I digress.
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
the Feburary issue of PC gamer, there were articles about how the latest hardware requirements are the main factors that motivate new breakthroughs in game mechanics. Well Sins are a counter example to that. If you guys are interested, try to get a hold of that issue, it discusses how different games from RTS, RPG, FPS, etc, all requiring the latest and the best rigs garner the most industry awards and awarding player with stunning graphical and playing experiences.

Examples cited are

Widzardary 2, Morrowind, Oblviion, Baulder's gate for RPG
Quake, Doom,for FPS
Supreme commander for RTS,

there were more, but i don't have the articles in front of me. But all of you can recall your own examples.

One thing is true, though, many of the games cited in these articles, there were upgrades both to graphics and game mechanics, but the two do not always go hand in hand when ever new games comes out.

I remember there was a game that came out, which was some sci fi race simulator. The guy that did the review in pc gamer. He saids, this game is really much more fun to watch than to play.

I did not buy crysis not because i was not willing to upgrade my computer, but it is because i have really bad eyesights, and i get really bad motion sickness from playing FPS type games. And even if i did not get motion sickness, i still would not buy crysis or pirate it for that matter. Because the basis for many FPS shooters are all the same, see yourself holding a guy, go shoot and kill all the bad guys from one level to the next. Rinse and repeat. True, it is the details that are different, but truth to be told, i could not care about those details, because when one thinks about it, it is all the same.
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
The comments about piracy are so true. As is previous thoughts about DRM not slowing piracy one bit and instead just hurting your legit customers. Companies have to make a good product, and make owning the product come with rewards, such as online play.

On the thought of appealing to the widest audience possible, can you imagine how World of Warcraft would do if it had high requirements? It's one game that has been often criticized by some for it's poor graphics, yet, without having such low requirements, Blizzard would have never came close to having even half the subscribers they have now. Appealing to the largest market possible will always sell more games. Look at the biggest selling series of all time, The Sims, and how simple it's graphics are.

So while cutting edge graphics are nice, they will never sell a lot of games. They will be benchmarks, but that is about it. Great games with great gameplay are what sells games. Games that keep you coming back for more is what sells games. None of my favorite games, from now or in the past, ever had cutting edge graphics. But they all had enthralling gameplay that kept you playing long beyond what you should.

Keep up the great work and hope you have even more success in the future. Just don't sell out to EA.
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
When you look at the sales of really hardcore games like Crysis and you think, "Wow, those games should have sold a lot more,"
Wow, christ taylor is an idiot :)
Neither Crysis nor Supreme Commander "should have sold a lot more", because there were (and still are!) basic fundamental huge issues in those game.
For instance 90% of all Crysis servers are empty due to many people having a server authentication problem, which still isnt fixed..
And as for Supreme Commander, more than half of all online games ends with a disconnect or someone else crashing.

Its so redicolus to blame piracy for lost sales, when the hard cold truth is just that most of these "high profile games" simply arent as good as the developers themselves think!
Remember the hype around Bioshock? The developers almost got an orgams by just talking about it. And when it finally came, its just another "meh" fps with minimalistic emotional connections. (seriously, who cried when they harvested a girl? nobody i bet, because its still just a bunch of polygons. why even bother with emotions then?)

Its simply a case of the developers and publishers believing that their game is more amazing than it really is. Its sad really. Why not just accept that their game was a GOOD game, but nothing more?
Instead of playing the blame-game desperatly trying to fish for another possible reason other than the impossible reason that the game wasnt THAT good. lol :) :) :)
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
While I do love the occasional eye-candy the games I play most aren't visually stunning.

- GalCiv2
- Sins
- Il-2 (hell, that one's six or seven years old!)
- Dominions 3
- Steel Panthers (MBT, WW2, WAW)


On the other hand, I have a couple of games that I played for a few hours and then lost interested because they were repetitve, shallow, boring or not running properly on my system (Core Duo E6600, 2Gig RAM, HD2900XT - 'no slouch')

- Supreme Commander (Even bought the addon, hoping it would add something worthwhile - yeah, right.)
- Crysis (Could as well have named it Far Cry 2.)


What does that tell you?

Technological innovations alone don't sell games. (Well, unless your John Carmack. But then, you're god, anyway.) Gameplay innovations on the other hand, do. So does an open game engine that allows modding and user-content without having to download several gigabyte of SDK.


So, keep up the good work Stardock, you got yourself a loyal customer!