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Sinner's Digest: February 20, 2008

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Sinner's Digest: February 20, 2008

Piracy is a boogeyman

from Sins Forums

imageWe're in week 2 since the release of Sins of a Solar Empire and it's been quite an adventure. We've got a lot going on, here's some highlights...

  • In the first week or so, it sold more copies than Galactic Civilizations II sold in its first month which is saying a lot.  I don't know its relative sales ranking but it's in the top 3 best sellers at Gamestop, EB Games, Best Buy, and Amazon.com. I know it's doing well at Walmart and Target since they've gone through their entire initial stockings entirely a couple of times.

  • We're working on v1.03. We want to get it out sooner rather than later and then focus on v1.04 which will be a bit more in-depth of an update. 1.03 will have AI updates, AI replacing dropped players in multplayer, smart AI surrendering, some updates to Ironclad Online and a number of other tweaks. We're going to start putting it through QA tomorrow but we don't have a definitive release date other than hopefully in the next week or two.

  • We're having a Game Night this Friday starting at 6pm EST on Ironclad Online. There will be Stardock people and Ironclad people playing online that night. We'll be helping show people how to play the game, give tips, help people work through any connection issues and of course, playing.

  • I saw an article at IGN about how PC developers are blaming piracy as the reason some high profile games aren't selling in the quantities they should.  As some of you know, Stardock's "main" business is in the PC software realm so we have a bit different outlook on market dynamics.  Here's the deal: Piracy is a problem, no doubt about it. It does cost sales. But it isn't the driving reason for lost sales, it's the size of the market.  Sins of a Solar Empire is outselling some higher profile games not just because it's a "great game" but because it runs on a vastly larger number of PCs. 

    For console advocates out there, ask yourself how well a given game would sell if it required players to run out and buy a $300 upgrade to their console to play the game?  That's essentially what a lot of high profile PC game developers expect.  When Ironclad and Stardock were working on Sins, we made a conscious decision that the game would not require potential gamers to upgrade their systems.  That meant we couldn't have things like moving turrets or whatever but it means that the size of the market was much larger.  No matter how good your game is, if people can't play it, you will always be limited.  The number of people willing to upgrade PCs for games is not that large.  If you want to sell lots of copies of your PC game, make sure it runs on a lot of machines. 

  • And lastly, the Sins of a Solar Empire MyColors theme is now available. If you bought the Collector's Edition (which is the only version we sell direct digitally or box-wise) then you get the MyColors theme for free. Click on the update game button to get it (it's one of the reasons why the direct download version is $5 more than the retail).  To learn more, see this post.

That's all for now! Cheers!

46,589 views 47 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top
Well Far Cry 2 is actually in production right now, so they couldn't have called it that.
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
Wow, imagine that: a game with great gameplay outsells games with great graphics and sky-high hardware requirements. I only wish more software developers realized that...

Thanks Stardock! SINS is the first PC game I've bought in over a year, one that's actually worth the money.
WindowBlinds - Free yourself of the default settings, customize your desktop.
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
I'm not a fan of piracy, however I am a fan of loading up a game I bought legally on multiple computers at home for the sake of LAN play with friends and family.

You can't do this with most games, and this only encourages me to lose interest in certain games much faster than I should. I never did bother to buy Civ 4: Warlords or Beyond the Sword for that reason...

More-so. Creative salesmanship would be the best counter-agent to piracy.

Imagine if you will, a crazy Marketing Scheme, from the mind of a crazy man:

Stardock releasing an optional Single-player Campaign for Sins of a Solar Empire in dozens of monthly chapters at the low-low cost of $7.49 an installment, for sale through Stardock Central only. Toss in an enthralling storyline, some very challenging and diverse maps, plenty of cinematics, some decent voice-overs - you'd have yourself a marketing tool strong enough to lure even former pirates into paying money to keep up with the Jones. Not to mention positive reinforcement to the existing Fan-base, forcing people to people sit online for hours, foaming at the mouth, while they wait for the next installment to be uploaded on Stardock Central just so they can know what happens next in the universe of Sins of a Solar Empire.

Then every six months when the next expansion is released; you could offer up an optional "Collector's Edition" of the AI Improving - Multi-player Centric Expansion Pack, which includes all of the Campaign Chapters up to that point, giving the customers who've missed out on the Campaign Mode a chance to catch up for a great value of only an extra $9.99.


Ahh... but that is crazy thinking right there. Pay-per month only works for the MMO's... right?
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
One thing I love about this game is that I can play it on my laptop... I'm trying to get my friends to buy it so we can start some coops together. I work as a tutor in a computer lab at my college, and when it's slow in here, I sit around playing Sins. :D I looked at the system requirements for a few other games I considered... many of them would cost me an extra $300 just to be able to play it on my desktop(ok, yes, I did buy a 360 just so I could play halo 3... but cmon.. halo :-P ).

I really liked the digital download version too, well worth the extra $ to get the game right away and also eventually get the box... Sins was sold out at all the local stores, didn't even know I could download it 'till I checked as a last ditch effort. It also makes it a lot easier to get my friends to buy it... "you don't even have to go to the store... pay $45 and get it from their site!"

I personally had no problem with the total of $60 for the digital download + shipped game + shipping... a new 360 game would've cost me the same.

On the piracy issue, games often don't succumb to piracy quite as badly I don't think... especially when playing online requires a unique key. Sure, this game has a lot to offer in single player, but that's nothing compared to playing with other people...

I've only been playing for a few days, and you've got me hooked... looking forward to AI improvements and more patches in the future.
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
Just want to add only bought Sins yesterday and so far im also in the confused but enjoying it stage. Anyway I was tempted to the darkside but after reading 2 reviews and remembering just how great galciv was I got my credit card out :)

You have made a game people want to pay for, congratulations :)
Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
When you look at the sales of really hardcore games like Crysis and you think, "Wow, those games should have sold a lot more,"Wow, christ taylor is an idiot Neither Crysis nor Supreme Commander "should have sold a lot more", because there were (and still are!) basic fundamental huge issues in those game.


Actually the biggest problem facing those two games was that they BOTH would devour systems. SupComm was nearly unplayable on a big map on anything less than a quad-core processor, and Crysis was pretty much the same way.
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
Stardock releasing an optional Single-player Campaign for Sins of a Solar Empire in dozens of monthly chapters at the low-low cost of $7.49 an installment

Pay-per month only works for the MMO's... right?


That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard. Today. Let me break this down for you.

First of all, $7.50 is a fucking RIP OFF. Unless these 'installments' were promising at least 20 hours of gameplay each, I wouldn't pay anywhere NEAR that much. $7.50 is GREED. The potential profit would vastly overcome any and all overhead associated with it, and simply make them greedy for even more.

Secondly, it's retarded. MMOs are for fools, for the same reason your idea is foolish. I play campaigns because I like the STORY. What exactly is the incentive to EVER finish the story if it's going to terminate a source of income? It's like shitty shows like Lost and Prison Break. They're never going to end, because people are dumb enough to keep watching. The writers are going to keep dragging out the story as long as they're making gobs of cash because people keep watching.

Fools play MMOs because they don't realize that they're PAYING PEOPLE to do work THEMSELVES. They PAY OTHER PEOPLE to, once a month, make their class worse compared to the others, and make any gear they worked for (key word: WORK) obsolete. THEY PAY PEOPLE TO DO THIS.
Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
Stardock releasing an optional Single-player Campaign for Sins of a Solar Empire in dozens of monthly chapters at the low-low cost of $7.49 an installmentPay-per month only works for the MMO's... right?That's a rip-off and only fools would fall for that (which is why DLC works on the Xbox). You're going to tell me that a mission or two is worth 20% what the full game itself ORIGINALLY COST?I'd pay maybe, a dollar an installment. If that. $7.50 is greed, plain and simple.


I was going to write up a huge essay on the merits of my idea, but then I realized who posted this, and laughed it off.

I can't believe I almost took you seriously.

It doesn't matter anyways. It's a crazy idea. I even said so in the beginning.
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
I was going to write up a huge essay on the merits of my idea, but then I realized who posted this, and laughed it off.

I can't believe I almost took you seriously.


In other words, you knew none of your half-assed stupid arguments would change my opinion of you that you're a moron?

Or because why? Because you "wouldn't change my mind"? Because I'm not a moronic sheep like 99% of the internet populace? Because I don't try to hide what I mean behind futile attempts to not offend anyone and 'let's-all-be-friends' bullshit?
Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top
Good work! I look forward to seeing the improvements in the upcoming patch and appreciate keeping the community in-the-know.

In the first week or so, it sold more copies than Galactic Civilizations II sold in its first month which is saying a lot.
It's going to sell a lot more. I've convinced a number of people to go out and buy Sins. :) The problem is, they're out of stock just about everywhere.

We're having a Game Night this Friday starting at 6pm EST on Ironclad Online. There will be Stardock people and Ironclad people playing online that night. We'll be helping show people how to play the game, give tips, help people work through any connection issues and of course, playing.
Hmmm...I'll have to stop by for this. Honestly, I've been hesitating to play multiplayer against human opponents because of all those horrors I experienced with Starcraft zergling and carrier rushes, Warcraft tree defense rushes, and Command and Conquer carpet bombing. I have yet to experience anything negative like that, but nothing is more frustrating than getting buffeted by 50+ of the same unit without a valid counter. Sins does appear to have counters, which puts it right up there with Rise of Nations, in theory. Now if I could only get myself to give it a chance to test that theory... I'll try to stop by.

I saw an article at IGN about how PC developers are blaming piracy as the reason some high profile games aren't selling in the quantities they should. As some of you know, Stardock's "main" business is in the PC software realm so we have a bit different outlook on market dynamics. Here's the deal: Piracy is a problem, no doubt about it. It does cost sales. But it isn't the driving reason for lost sales, it's the size of the market.
I'm so glad to read these statements. Finally, someone with a brain, unlike all those Ph.D.'s out there running companies like Epic Games and Gas Powered Games who think PC piracy and console hype are why their PC games aren't selling well. Ironclad/Stardock are on the right path by offering a product that works on a huge number of computers and selling it at a fair price point. I would love to know what universities are dishing out Ph.D.'s to these people who whine about piracy, because clearly their academic standards need improvement. Price (which should not be extreme anywhere including in foreign countries), polish (how well a game is made and how well it is supported), performance (making a product that runs well on a huge number of systems instead of just those cutting edge ones), and purchase (availability of a product for purchase at different stores) are the 4 P's of successful PC game design that boosts sales and mitigates piracy.
Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top
This is what happens when you listen to the market research (beta testers).

Go figure you put together a good product using the very people who would be intrested in a game like this instead of building a game and then hoping to create a market..
Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top

Sins of a Solar Empire is outselling some higher profile games not just because it's a "great game" but because it runs on a vastly larger number of PCs. For console advocates out there, ask yourself how well a given game would sell if it required players to run out and buy a $300 upgrade to their console to play the game? That's essentially what a lot of high profile PC game developers expect.


Developing a high end game can take years and part of the process is predicting where PC graphics hardware will be when the game delivers. Games like Crysis, EverQuest II, and Doom III overshot the mark by a large margin on purpose and that's partly due to wanting to earn the title of "most advanced PC game in history" and partly to attract investment from hardware vendors.

The problem with this is that customers can read. Sales are low because the Internet is full of articles telling them that not only will it not run on their current PC, the hardware they need to get the full experience from the game cannot be had at any price. By the time hardware catches up with the game, no one cares - we've moved on to something else.

Thanks, Stardock for delivering a beautiful game that's loads of fun to play!
Reply #40 from Sins Forums Top
When you look at the sales of really hardcore games like Crysis and you think, "Wow, those games should have sold a lot more,"Wow, christ taylor is an idiot Neither Crysis nor Supreme Commander "should have sold a lot more", because there were (and still are!) basic fundamental huge issues in those game.Actually the biggest problem facing those two games was that they BOTH would devour systems. SupComm was nearly unplayable on a big map on anything less than a quad-core processor, and Crysis was pretty much the same way.



Well actually, SupCom was promoted as an massive strategy game, but instead it was an normal RTS with a touch of "massive" (big maps & large unit cap), but it had the mechanics of an normal RTS, battles being resolved to fast for big maps and way too much micro to make big maps interesting (bad HUD for game of that scale). It is basicly the Starcraft spam maps so far, though there is supposedly another expansion on the way which could make it the "massive" RTS it was supposed to be, and not the RTS pretending to be massive.
Reply #41 from Sins Forums Top
Well main difference between today and 15 years ago is that it is impossible to tell apart good and crappy games by box alone. Flashy graphics do a great job of hiding shoddy game play! At least on the box :)
Reply #42 from Sins Forums Top

To the Devs and support staff:

KUDOS! Awesome philosophy. Its good to see some brains in the industry instead of the cookie cutter market slop that is being published today. The gaming community often divides itself on the publisher/dev of the game and now the word is out. StarDock is something to look forward to.....

Looking for more depth in 1.4

Hats off!!

Jamel..
Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top
Yes, i totaly agree with about piracy.
That say many software companies and many audio/video distributors are lies.

Yes, piracy is serious problem.
But when you work good and faitfuly so everybody who isn´t dumb must see and feel so; "Yes, this game is great, nice, i love it i must it - i must it an original copy."
I mean - if somoe download pirated version of this game and love it he not wait an seek place where he can purchase original game and support good work.

Adequate price is second thing. Buy audio CD (mean in my country and by price vs my month vage) I am not idiot and not buy audio CD that cost about 35USD and it´s not that excelent work. But i support and buy music that i much love and that cost half price. (c64audio, and i love game concerts in Liepzig (Game Convention) it´s amazing music)

And Sins of Solar Empire - yes it isn´t execelnt for me - i miss some many things and some ideas - (Imperium Galaktica 1 and some others games)
But Sins of Solar Empire is stil Breath taking game and i love it.

And at last - it´s Excelent idea make on-line registration and CD-key authorization for actualizations - that IMHO helps with lowering amout of pirates.

Excelent work folks! :)
Reply #44 from Sins Forums Top
Frogboy, you're on the money about game sales. I am a reluctant 360 owner - I say reluctant because I consider myself a PC gamer before all else (I don't even really enjoy playing games on a console much) but couldn't justify spending another $2000 on a new system until some time next year.

Anyway, the ONLY reason I would ever get a console version of a game over a PC version is because of performance. Game developers have lost a lot of sales to me this year quite simply because their games wouldn't run on my laptop. I had a high degree of confidence that Sins would run well, and it does! So I bought it on faith and was well rewarded. Great work, guys!

That said, I wouldn't mind some more graphical splendoriforous options in the sequel, by which time I will have a new computer. :)
Reply #45 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah I agree with the others here. Ive already talked 2 friends into buying the game as well. Its really a great game. Me and a friend played our first online game tonight. We teamed up again 2 AI's and had a great time. Yeah it took us 3 hours to play the game but was fun the whole way. We had a few short lag spike interuptions but besides that it was gaming gold.

Im really excited about the future of this game as well. Expansions, mods and all that. I really think you guys hit the perfect mid spot here between the more complicated Civ type games and the RTS stuff thats only about making Uber Unit #3 and rushing the other guy. The pace is perfect (although maybe one more gameplay speed increase of maybe 25% would be perfect).

Reply #46 from Sins Forums Top
Wow, imagine that: a game with great gameplay outsells games with great graphics and sky-high hardware requirements. I only wish more software developers realized that... Thanks Stardock! SINS is the first PC game I've bought in over a year, one that's actually worth the money.



Ditto to that! Stardock rocks.
Reply #47 from Sins Forums Top
Still Want moving turrents. Homeworld had them, so I wouldn't think they would be that difficult. Oh well...it's not a HUGE deal, but I would like to see the option some day...just makes things more "Cinematic"...