NotMoM2: story layer and multi-player "vs." Metaverse

Why wait to start the detailed nagging?

from GalCiv2 Forums
In another thread where NotMoM2 is a side point, Kryo said "it looks like it'll be a GC prequel set on ancient Altaria (but that's just what I've gathered based on public comments..."

1) I thought I was trying to keep an eye on this talk, but this ancient Altaria stuff is news to me. Can someone post a couple of ref links?

2) No disrespect, but pulling off a nice narrative connection between a magic-based game and a "hi tech" game is asking an awful lot of both writers and readers. The only lit I know that's come close to satisfying me on that level is not comprable to PC games, e.g. Michael Moorcock's End of Time stuff & some Samuel R. Delaney stuff. Better a fresh start. Avoiding thoughts about how "stuff really works" should free both devs and copy writers to be more creative--it is magic, so the "laws of physics" should be based on the schools of magic you will support, not vice versa. Plus, thinking magically at base could help avoid a whole host of the common functionality complaints b/c there would be no excuse for a whinger pretending that she understands physics well enough to try tearing the game models apart.

3) I'm a latecomer to the GC2 Metaverse and still dislike some basics about how scoring works (war is just one tool in the diplomat's kit, not the only reason to play "the game"). But I have to agree with Mumblefratz that, especially in combo with this forum and the strong expansion packs, the MV has ended up being a big part of why I'm still playing. I don't have time to work on the MVL, much less real multiplayer, but the MV gives me a chance to compare my play style and skills to others. Multiplayer for NotMom2 would be an OK feature, but not one I'd require to buy it, and definitely not something I'd like to see competing for dev time with things like making each player POV unique from the ground up, instead of in the way that TA is trying to do as a final act for GC2.
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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Apologies, but the forum appears to be ignoring my attempt to break up a long new post. Things look fine in the Edit box, but saving changes still leaves the giant single blob.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

What browser are you posting with?

Curtains - Customize Windows with additional styles
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Opera, latest version (9.25?)
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
When editing in Opera, the OP looked fine, but when I opened it in Firefox it had no spacing and I was able to add spacing that stuck.

Kryo, any chance that you can kill this thread so I can get it started properly?
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Kryo, any chance that you can kill this thread so I can get it started properly?


OP looks fine now, and I don't think a couple of off topic replies will hurt it :p
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You said

I'm a latecomer to the GC2 Metaverse and still dislike some basics about how scoring works (war is just one tool in the diplomat's kit, not the only reason to play "the game").


you get score for other wins not as much because war is the hardest.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
you get score for other wins not as much because war is the hardest.


I'm not directly trying to complain about GC scoring (that's for other threads). What I'm hoping to do is to encourage the devs to try for a major change to any "scoring" stuff they have going on.

In GC2 terms, I'm hoping to see a scoring systems that is neutral re "victory type." Whether we get the Ultimate Spell, Totally Charm the Neighbors, or Fight Most Fiercely, I want a game that separates the calculation of your score from how you choose to end the game. In Voldemort's terms, it makes no difference whether a subject has volunteered or failed to resist an Imperius curse.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In another thread where NotMoM2 is a side point, Kryo said "it looks like it'll be a GC prequel set on ancient Altaria (but that's just what I've gathered based on public comments..."


A Galciv prequel would be nice but it should be foccused on the Arnor and Dreadlords and it should be a RTS.


Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
A Galciv prequel would be nice but it should be foccused on the Arnor and Dreadlords and it should be a RTS


Faugh on this RTS nonsense. There can be no such thing as "Galciv prequel" that isn't a TBS.

But that's really a pretty big darned digression from what I hoped for my original post. And I say that as someone who thinks a good digression is more fun than a good thesis.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
For the fantasy strategy game, I am hoping to write a book or some very long story guide that would come with the collector's edition of the game.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
For the fantasy strategy game, I am hoping to write a book or some very long story guide that would come with the collector's edition of the game.


You really know how to tease us don't you?!?! Now I am even more impatient for the game!

Keep up the great work, am loving GC2 and both its expansions.

Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
For the fantasy strategy game, I am hoping to write a book or some very long story guide that would come with the collector's edition of the game.


Nice dodge of the question. :LOL:

1) I thought I was trying to keep an eye on this talk, but this ancient Altaria stuff is news to me. Can someone post a couple of ref links?


In this journal post, Brad said

Incidentally, be sure to read a lot of the back story on the Altarians which are slipped into the tech descriptions. There's preview info on our fantasy strategy game that's in development in there.


I'm guessing that's the primary source of this rumour.

I was a little uneasy about the GalCiv2 link as well, but we'll have to see. There are aspects of the backstory to GalCiv2 that relate to this "dark energy" which is supposed to seem like magic to most beings in the universe. I suppose that could work. What makes me worry less is Brad's talk about dragons and so on, in threads on other sites, as well as this photo of some concept art.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm very eagerly awaiting this game, and hope it will be as addictive as MoM and GC2. :) I am dubious about the idea of the magic-based fantasy TBS game being a pre-quel to GC though. It's a very tricky propostion to reconcile these two wildy different realites. Some fantasy/sci-fi writers have succeeded, but most have fallen short in my opinion.

Definitely TBS is the way to go...I second GW Swicord's faugh about RTS! ;)

Kzinti empire2.JPG Sentient species taste better...
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I second GW Swicord's faugh about RTS!


Thirded! For RTS there's Ironclad, for TBS there's Stardock. Perfect harmony. ;)
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Nice dodge of the question.


I admit I was asking two major, and one minor, questions in a single thread, and I have some catching up to on the "I'm so excited!" thread Cauldyth linked (thanks).

Re my worries about "magic that's just science you don't understand," Brad's answer seems both a bit of a question-duck and perhaps cause not to worry so much--if he's considering that much effort on prose, he's likely to do better by far than the average game designer who might attempt a similar feat. I'm mainly just hoping that the game mechanics feel "magical" when compared to the GC series; I can ignore a back story that I don't like if the front end is satisfying enough.

On my third point, unfortunately, I do suspect that we're not going to see anything like the Metaverse for NotMoM2, and I come close to resenting the idea that any dev time is being "wasted" on multiplayer. I could be consoled slightly if they just gave the game a formal code name or settled on the street name. Now that I know how *not* MoM the game will be, well...
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In another thread where NotMoM2 is a side point, Kryo said "it looks like it'll be a GC prequel set on ancient Altaria (but that's just what I've gathered based on public comments..." A Galciv prequel would be nice but it should be foccused on the Arnor and Dreadlords and it should be a RTS.


I agree with you until you said it should be a click-fest um I mean RTS. The last thing we need is yet another mind numbing RTS game. Please, please, please stay Tun-Based or do a combo of Turn-based and RTS like the Total war series.

Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm very eagerly awaiting this game, and hope it will be as addictive as MoM and GC2. I am dubious about the idea of the magic-based fantasy TBS game being a pre-quel to GC though. It's a very tricky propostion to reconcile these two wildy different realites. Some fantasy/sci-fi writers have succeeded, but most have fallen short in my opinion.Definitely TBS is the way to go...I second GW Swicord's faugh about RTS! Sentient species taste better...



Magic could very well fit with Sci-fi. It is after all just another way to manipulate the universe around you. I see no conflict with the two.
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Putting the game on ancient Altaria would make it more science fiction than fantasy, wouldn't it? That would be fine by me actually. I tend to avoid things where the word "fantasy" can be applied. When I think of fantasy, I think of a story that relies little on the viewer/reader "buying it". In science fiction, things usually have some sort of believable technology behind whatever is happening. It's a pretty wide fuzzy line really, but I can feel the difference more than I can explain it.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Magic could very well fit with Sci-fi. It is after all just another way to manipulate the universe around you. I see no conflict with the two.


I wish I could remember the name of the Samuel Delaney essay about why he says "SF" and not Sci-fi. The full term for him is "speculative fiction," and that's because he wants to include all literature that deliberatly "violates realism."

All but a very limited range of science fiction has the same basic problem that CraigHB has with "fantasy," if requiring suspension of disbelief is a problem for you. For that matter, a great meany "realist" stories have similar problems, e.g. Crockett and Tubbs shooting far more people in a season of Miami Vice than the entire Miami PD did in a given year in the same time period.

My real concern was that stories trying to mix "super science" and "magic" are pretty hard to do well, and I'm also hoping that the NotMoM project will be Stardock's first strong step into adding story parts to the immersivity factor. GC2 is still too immersive to me for my own good, but not at all in the way a favorite TV show or table-based RPG is. MoM and Alpha Centauri had that flavor in spades, and in addition to very satisfying core mechanics.
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think Alpha Centauri was the most developed TBS in terms of an immersive story/setting. Even just the hundreds of voiceover quotes from the faction leaders could be quite mesmerizing. I didnt like the gameplay as much as some other TBS games though.

Kzinti empire2.JPG Sentient species taste better...
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I still play Alpha Centaury after all these years. It has probably to do with the Mars trilogy from Kim Stanley Robinson (said to be one of the major inspirations in the game booklet) and the fact that the author a licence in philosophy (if I remember well).

Concerning the concept art whose link was given some posts ago, it seems to me almost a bit too...detailed. Well, I'm playing Dominions II these days so I'm accustomed to figures a few pixels high.
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In Master of Magic one of the races was the Klackons who were also in Master of Orion (as were the Humans).
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In Master of Magic one of the races was the Klackons who were also in Master of Orion (as were the Humans).


Both of those were made by Microprose, so that makes sense.

Kzinti empire2.JPG Sentient species taste better...
Reply #24 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
No, they were both made by SimTex. They were published by Microprose, but that is not the same thing.
Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think Alpha Centauri was the most developed TBS in terms of an immersive story/setting. Even just the hundreds of voiceover quotes from the faction leaders could be quite mesmerizing. I didnt like the gameplay as much as some other TBS games though. Sentient species taste better...



Wait a minute, Alpha Centauri was TBS I thought it was RTS. In fact that is the reason I never tried it was because I thought it was an RTS game.