Sally jacobs Sally jacobs

Brits are not anti-US, just anti-Bush

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Brits are not anti-US, just anti-Bush

from JoeUser Forums
I try not to get involved in politics, nevermind politics of a completely different country. It would appear American politics matters everywhere. Not just to the Americans. Hardly surprising is it really, considering the size, and wealth of America. The politics of America will end up having a knock on effect everywhere else. That's just the way things work. When British people demonstrated Bush's state visit last year. Our Prime minister in his infinite wisdom, presumed we were anti-America. They were not protesting against America, but against a President they do not trust. He isn't our President, but as I mentioned, that power seems to have a knock on effect. America is our biggest Ally; we have profound bonds of history and culture. Not to mention a shared sacrifice in two world wars. We believe as America does that the worlds sole superpower is a democracy and not - as it might have been had the Soviet Union "won" the Cold War - a tyranny.

At this time of the visit there were alot of Polls done, just to see where the british public stood on President Bush. Lets explain the surveys which simultaneously show great affection for the US, even as they record intense suspicion towards Bush? Pick up one poll and it finds that half the public reckons Blair's closeness to Bush is bad for Britain. Pick up another and it reveals the US is still the place where most Britons want to go on holiday, and even where one in five of us would like to live.

We are in awe of America, no doubt. We follow their films, and books. We follow their fashion, what they have to say to the world. We know they are a super power, and we try to be like them. We also see their Politics. The words Bush says, you are either with us, or against us. We see him manipulate the american Public. His inflated claims of weapons of Mass destruction. Where does it all stop.

We all know Americans are very proud of their country. They are also unsure of Bush though. Just look at all the people that voted against him in 2000. They are not anti-America. Far from it. They love their country. With an intense love, that has simply grown since the tragic events of 9/11. They would die for their country, that doesn't mean they have to have faith in their President.

Tony Blair seems to be of the opinion, to accept america, we have to accept Bush. Not the case. We can accept America, and still not agree with their leader. We can respect everything America stands for, but see they were lead to places they may not have wished to go. We can stand by a nation, but not agree with the direction they always go. I personally am not anti-Bush. I am not with him either. I just want the less of two evils. Here I am explaining the British view, Bush is not popular here. America already knows that though.
politics
37,132 views 128 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #30 By: DylanZimmerman - 9/12/2004 9:46:16 AM
If you don't care what the rest the world thinks then evidently your head is simply too far up your own flag sucking ass to see that we're all the same, there is no real nationality, we all live and we will all die, and personally I do not want to see people die for a cause that is futile, and wrong. I don't understand why you people think your precious economy and status as the world's so called last superpower is so much more important than human life. It is people like you who are the very reason this world remains such a frightening and disillusioning world to live in


Since you obviously "do not" live in this country maybe "you" should not be so quick to judge "what" we do OR say!
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
Okay, Sally I have erased my comments and I apologise especially to you for writing vehement shit on an excellent article.

Secondly, drmiler, I don't know which address you think you have, because my browser goes thru an anonymous server so my files dont get nuked again, and I expect its their IP you have.

I also apologise for causing you offence, I spoke out of frustration and fear, and I hope that you accept my apology. I usually avoid these threads because I am so useless with politics, but I've had a lousy week and I was angry and lashed out. that is not an excuse and again I apologise, and take back what I said.I did not mean to make a personal attack but you were rude to me too, there was no need to write something as taunting as "I WILL HELP YOU PACK." but nevermind, I know I should not have reacted as I did.I know I have no right to judge anyone, and nor do you have the right to make assumptions about me. I didnt mean to speak in haste, and I was wrong, i admit that and like i said, I am sorry.

I'm sorry my opinion is not your's and I hope we can get along and avoid further conflict.

Once more I apologise to you both, and anyone else who is pissed because of what i wrote.

Dyl xx
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
I both accept your apology and tender my apology to you as well
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hehe, it appears I've missed alot! I know I'm not really needed here, as these debates tend to carry themselves, but I'll add my thoughts...

So, sally....i wish Europeans would understand that what works for them might not work for us, but the base reasons for that are NOT obvious, even to highly educated intellectuals. Remember, my Husband shared your views not so long ago...


You're totally correct, what works for us might not work for you. I wouldn't even consider that. We are completely different worlds. With different histories, and different things working for us. I think though that we have to look at what doesn't work for us too, and instead of sticking with something, because it might work out for the best in the end, we should take some new ideas on. To evolve, we need to change no matter how scary it might be.

Bush should do what is right for Americans, that is why you elect him. When he thinks he knows best for other countries to that is a different story. Should he then still have Americas best interests at heart, but try and 'help' somewhere else. Does that not comprimise his his position?

When world opinion is so terrible of America that radicals feel they are taking a stand by flying commercial airliners into corporate buildings, you would kind of hope that Americans would start caring what the world thinks of them...


I think America has gone the other way, and taken the defensive. Rightly so too. Not the way to ask to be listened too. If it was done in a proper manner, maybe the rest of the world would be listened too.

British and Australian governments seem to be verry happy to kiss any US administrations ass - I just hope that the negative world view of America does not rub of on our fine counties


I think that will happen eventually, if things carry on the same way...

he has of "yet" to show it to America. He says he has a plan but won't say what it is. This is "really" hurting his chances. And unless he fixes it and "soon", he's going to lose in Nov.


I'm not surprised. They say actions speak louder than words, but he needs to get himself the chance to make them actions first.

Who "really" cares "what" the rest of the world thinks and "why" should we let their opinion dictate what we do or think??


Their opinion should not dictate anything, but since America likes to be seen as this superpower, the rest of the worlds opinion does count. Whether you care or not.

Sally I have erased my comments and I apologise especially to you for writing vehement shit on an excellent article


I didn't see the comments, just what was quoted. No need to apologise to me hunny. You're passionate about your beliefs, and you have my respect for that. On this thread at least you can express your beliefs as much as you like. I know you'll do it in a reasonable manner.

Thanks for all the comments xxx
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
America is the future, like it or not.


America is not built for the future at all, the future is Europe, Japan, India, China. The power of the US is already in decline, and as the younger generations of America begin to become the generation of power, they will receive a hearty slap in the face.
Reply #31 from PolMach Forums Top
Strange, I have never seen any country ask America to attack them. Maybe what you are talking about happens in the films you watch, but "movies" aren't real and America doesn't save the world everytime. When a large alien craft looms over Earth, we will remember to telephone the Americans, who will cast their best actor to save the rest of the world (who want to be American anyway).


You sir - are ignorant of history. There are many examples. Lets just field a couple for your education. Who liberated Paris from the Nazis? And who liberated Quwait from the Bathists?
So many examples of pleadings for American help in history. So many more examples of complaints about the nature of that help.
Citizen Sir Peter Maxwell
Are you daft? 500,000 Americans did not have to join your effort. London was getting bombed nightly by the time we invaded the Continent and for years before that our merchants were getting sunk by German U Boats trying to supply you rlittle Island-Under-Seige.
Get it straight, you do not Hail a Swasticka right now for one reason and that reason is American Blood.
And you are welcome to place your bets on India and China - you will do alright but you will constantly have to deal with being second best.
The bitterness of jelousy that virtually drips from your pores ultimately rot your own flesh. A fate that you have brought upon yourself. What is in decline, sir - is your sensability. England has gone from a state of Decline to a state of Dependence and some intellugent leaders realize that they will have to emulate the successes of others but unfortunately there are many of those like yourself who will fight them every stepof the way because what works matters less to you than whether or not it is American-ish.
I'll not go further into this with you as I prefer now to sit back and watch you stew in your own bile for a while, you require no more stoking. You have played yourself and I am confident that you will continue to do so - all of those reading your nonsense that will surely follow will realize that you speak from the lower intestine and not the upper cortex. Hopefully your antics will bring a chuckle to others as they have done for me..
Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top
The bitterness of jelousy that virtually drips from your pores ultimately rot your own flesh.


Why would England and St George be jealous? The new crusade is lead by England, our SAS boys have bailed your stupid troops out in Iraq on numerous occassions. If your leaders had not been so gutless in the first gulf war we would have finished Saddam there and then, and many billions and many lives would have been saved.

England has gone from a state of Decline to a state of Dependence and some intellugent leaders realize that they will have to emulate the successes of others but unfortunately there are many of those like yourself who will fight them every stepof the way because what works matters less to you than whether or not it is American-ish.


The statement is obviously the statement of a psychopath, I do not fight progress, we British have a history of in fact modernising the entire world. We have constantly adapted through our entire history, and continue to do so, that is why we have the strongest economy in Europe and have the strongest work ethic in Europe. This position was traditionally held by Germany but now they they have millions of unemployed and are imitating our working pattern in Britain in an effort to be essentially English.

I'll not go further into this with you as I prefer now to sit back and watch you stew in your own bile for a while



I am not the one "stewing" at all, the tone of your reply appears to wholly aggressive which would suggest that you have the most to prove.

As an English nobleman, it is not your position as an uncouth American peasant to speak in such a manner to your obvious social superior. Take your Hollywood edited history and climb down from your high horse.

England and St George.
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #37 By: Sir Peter Maxwell - 9/12/2004 2:03:21 PM
America is the future, like it or not.


America is not built for the future at all, the future is Europe, Japan, India, China. The power of the US is already in decline, and as the younger generations of America begin to become the generation of power, they will receive a hearty slap in the face.


Oh, "Sir Peter"??? Please take your snot-nosed, high-browed English nobleman attitude and politely put it where the sun don't shine!
Reply #34 from JoeUser Forums Top
And who liberated Quwait from the Bathists?


British troops were not there? If this is the kind of 'alliance' that Yanks can offer us then they can waste their own money and reputation the next time they want to bomb the sense out of a rat infested Arab country.
Reply #35 from PolMach Forums Top
Britain stopped the greatest threat to democracy the world has ever known, Nazism, and contrary to what most American historians will tell you America did not "save Britain's ass in WW2" we did all the gritty fighting until the Yanks realised that it was in their best interest to do as we were doing.


The only reason, and I have studied this from a World History standpoint, that the nation of Britain survived the German Bombing Campaign was because of British Bombers going off course and bombing a German City, which angered Hitler who switched the bombing campaign from a Strategic One to a City Bombing one, otherwise the British nation's air support and factories would have fell to the German Bombing Campaign, but by the grace of your majesty's luck, the British Royal Air Force struck a German City and the Germans switched from Strategic Targets to City Bombing allowing the RAF to recover from it's loses and to take down un-escorted German Bombers, because the fighters could not get inland far enough, and that is the history of the Air War over Britain, that the world knows.

I am not saying the RAF did not have good pilots only that the few good pilots could not have turned the tide if they did not get a break in the strategic bombing, and the pure luck, your majesty praying, or something else did the RAF bomb a German city, (remember right I think it was Berlin) and Hitler switched the air campaign from Strategic to City Bombing.

What if America never got involved and supported the British in World War 2, well I think that the British may have attempted another landing back onto Europe, but it would have been another Dunkirk.

Next I can expect to here reference that if the Americans did not get involved the British and the French would have won World War 1.

Also, don't even get the subject started on the Pacific theater.

FEUER FREI!
Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top
Can I just say this is not a England vs American thread. Why does everything have to be a competition, a debate? I accept that America is a powerful force that can be learnt from. I also love England regardless of anything. This isn't about who is better or worse. Why does it always come down to that? It is about supporting each other, and understanding each other. We should remember that.
Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top
Americans make alot of coarse noise about how great and powerful their Presidents are, but in fact, Mr Blair dominates Mr Bush. It is well known in Whitehall that I dominate Mr Blair so in reality I am the 44th President of the United States. How do you like your leader?
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sally.............if you support kerry over bush, then you have no moral values. bush is far from perfect, but he at least acknowledges decent moral values. the only values kerry and the democrats support are tolerance of evil.

This recent article i wrote explains a lot.... http://marvin00.joeuser.com/index.asp?AID=27564
Reply #40 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply #44 By: Sir Peter Maxwell - 9/12/2004 3:48:45 PM
Americans make alot of coarse noise about how great and powerful their Presidents are, but in fact, Mr Blair dominates Mr Bush. It is well known in Whitehall that I dominate Mr Blair so in reality I am the 44th President of the United States. How do you like your leader?


Personaly I think he "STINKS"!!!


Reply #43 By: Sally jacobs - 9/12/2004 3:46:41 PM
Can I just say this is not a England vs American thread. Why does everything have to be a competition, a debate? I accept that America is a powerful force that can be learnt from. I also love England regardless of anything. This isn't about who is better or worse. Why does it always come down to that? It is about supporting each other, and understanding each other. We should remember that.


Sally your right! I see nothing wrong with England ( a little too different for my tastes. But irregardless) I just did not nor do I care for "Sir Peter's attitude!
Reply #41 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sally.............if you support kerry over bush, then you have no moral values. bush is far from perfect, but he at least acknowledges decent moral values. the only values kerry and the democrats support are tolerance of evil.


Whoever the Yanks vote for, Sir Peter Maxwell will still be your leader.
Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top
Marvin, as I said at the bottom of this article, I neither am against him or fore him. I'm simply putting forward the general Brit perspective, which is against him. If that means most Brits have no moral values in your opinion. So be it. I will go and read your article though. Thanks for stopping by.
Reply #43 from PolMach Forums Top
Can I just say this is not a England vs American thread. Why does everything have to be a competition, a debate? I accept that America is a powerful force that can be learnt from. I also love England regardless of anything. This isn't about who is better or worse. Why does it always come down to that? It is about supporting each other, and understanding each other. We should remember that.


I agree with you there Sally, I just think there is still some bitter rivalries left over from the days of the War of 1812, which seems to seep into both sides. Without England, America would have never got involved in World War 2, turning Europe into Hitler's Land, and giving him the ability to send all of his forces against Russia and so on, until his megalomaniacal self was satisfied. Without England, nobody would have held the line against the Germans, giving the Germans pause and not committing their full force on Russia. Without England, a man known as Gandhi would have never shown a way to protest a civilized government through non-violence. Without England, we wouldn't have the Beatles and the Who, mostly the Who. Without England, we wouldn't have a Royal Family to poke fun at and respect at the same time. Without England, I wouldn't be able to have some Fish and Chips, which are yummy if you get them from the right place. Heck without England, the pilgrims would have never left and America would not exist. Without England, the world would mostly belong to the French.

I understand and support that relationship, but why should an attack that undermines that relationship go unchallenged?

Instead of acting like a noble, one should be a noble by possessing, characterized by, or arising from superiority of mind or character or of ideals or morals, not because you come from a supposed higher social class, that does not make you special and superior to everyone, that says you should be more tolerant and try to understand higher ideas and morals, but not enforce your class superiority over another. That is something I can't stand, because you are born noble, does not make you noble, and that's the bottom line because ShoZan typed so.

BOOM! BOOM! ARTILLERY!
Reply #44 from PolMach Forums Top
Whoever the Yanks vote for, Sir Peter Maxwell will still be your leader.


Get off your noble arse, and be noble don't act noble, and I am not talking social classes here.

BOOM! BOOM! ARTILLERY!
Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top
Without England


Without England, the world would be run by savages and good Christian men would be slaughtered like pigs.

"Get off your noble arse, and be noble don't act noble, and I am not talking social classes here."

How dare you speak to me in such a fashion?! I act superior because I am superior, no amount of slanderous lies from fat pizza-eating Coca-Cola guzzling Americans will change that. God is an Englishman, and nothing will change that. English women are the finest in the world, when mounted, they produce superior English babies who are born to rule like Spartans and Romans. My noble English blood testifies to my nobility, nobility is a birth right not something that any peasant can ever hope to attain.
Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top
That is something I can't stand, because you are born noble, does not make you noble, and that's the bottom line because ShoZan typed so.


A leathery peasant has absolutely no possibility of becoming noble, God selects nobility and gives them land and property. It is written in the Bible and is God's will.
Reply #47 from PolMach Forums Top
I speak to you in such a fashion for I am not English, nor will I bow to your English supposed superiority.

For you sir are a cur on the cusp of humanity who preys off of the humanity with your ideals that because you were born or raised in a superior class, that surely you must be better than your fellow man.

Eat a damn piece of humble pie, you give British people a bad name with your constant belittling of your fellow man and woman, last time I checked all blood was red, and you sir bleed as we all do the same color, you are the rejected spawn of the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, and the Normans, and will never achieve the status of one who is deserving to rule over another. To compare yourself to Spartans and Romans is to show your true ignorance in the affairs of the present day world, wake up and realize that the world does not revolve around your pompous arse, and wake up to the fact that you sir, have never been or will ever be better than your fellow man and woman.

To insinuate that I am nothing more than a fat pizza-eating Coca-cola guzzling American is to show that you even more ignorance when it comes to worldly affairs, you bad sir (for you surely are not good) should be thrown out on your pompous supposed noble arse and have to work in a third world country to you humble yourself and bring yourself to a current world mentality.

You give your fellow British People a bad name, and should be punished for such insolent ignorance that is unfathomable from any body no matter how high and mighty he is, and last time I checked the English God was stolen from the religion of the Jewish people, so God is not English because Shakespeare translated the bible, nor is he Jewish, why should someone higher than you also bow down to your will.

So Sod off, you ill begotten supposed noble spawn who is not even worthy of being a British Person.

Side note, last time I checked your precious Rolls Royce was not owned by Britain but by Germany


FEUER FREI!
Reply #48 from JoeUser Forums Top
shoZan you got my insightful.

Sally your right! I see nothing wrong with England ( a little too different for my tastes. But irregardless) I just did not nor do I care for "Sir Peter's attitude


Thanks for acknowledging my comment. Sir Peter is a required taste.

Peter your loyalty to England is second to none, you are fighting the good fight . Just play nice!
Reply #49 from JoeUser Forums Top
Just a note, me and ShoZan were posting at the same time then...
Reply #50 from JoeUser Forums Top
I speak to you in such a fashion for I am not English, nor will I bow to your English supposed superiority.


The world is merely an extension of England, so your are bound by English laws and customs.

because you were born or raised in a superior class, that surely you must be better than your fellow man.


It would not be known as a superior class if it were not superior. You admit it is superior by calling it so.


you are the rejected spawn of the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, and the Normans, and will never achieve the status of one who is deserving to rule over another.


We ruled over 20% of the Earth, it is not debated whether the English are fit to rule.

To compare yourself to Spartans and Romans is to show your true ignorance in the affairs of the present day world


The world needs another Empire like that of the British or Romans, we would sort out these bloody terrorists. Americans talk big, we act big.

You give your fellow British People a bad name


They will do as they are commanded for I am their liege.


God is not English


It is written in the Bible that Jesus was not born in Bethlehem, but Barnsley, a great achievement for our nation spirit. Besides, the Grail is actually located here, proving that England is the land God has chosen as his home.