Why your taxes are so high

Great article!!

. Seriously, now. You aren't this naive.

You really don't address really "why" our taxes are high here, the waste here is a drop in the ocean. Your point that they are high is kind of a fallacy as well. The US has really low taxes comparitively.

I suggest you really look at the budget if you want to see why your taxes are high. Look at the percent of money that really gets to all these people Democrats whine about, and how much is skimmed off in between. Like 40% of the total money in the system never sees private hands, it just recirculates.

You don't have to go to Iraq to find waste like that, you don't even need to leave your state, and it isn't a partisan thing. This doesn't show how abusive Halliburton is, it shows that people have no clue how their abusive governement functions.

Do some "pork" research, and don't spare the Democrats. I think you'll be surprised.

Seriously, now. You aren't this naive.

Nope, I studied Public Administration in University and have taken several upper year courses in taxation, fiscal policy, macroeconomics, international trade, that sort of thing. I've worked in several government departments. I was an intern on Parliament Hill for a year. I am passionate about public policy. I know the federal budget very well. So this isn't my first rodeo, Bake, and naivete isn't one of my strong suits. Thank you for your comments.

Parliament Hill?

Ohhh, so you are talking about Canadian taxes, well, I'd be upset too. Dunno what Halliburton has to do with it, though.

P.S. From what I have seen statistically the benefit of socialized health care in Canada is just "a few % points more than their American counterparts".

The best another activist could do the other day was show that 8% more American poor considered themselves in poor or fair health. The same article also said that 9% more poor Americans are obese. The poster didn't bother with that statistic, though.

WIth all the "What's wrong with America" posts lately, one would have to wonder if there isn't a bit of penis envy going around. I mean, how much time do you spend looking over your fence at your neighbor's yard instead of mowing your own?

Telling, huh?

WIth all the "What's wrong with America" posts lately, one would have to wonder if there isn't a bit of penis envy going around. I mean, how much time do you spend looking over your fense at your neighbor's yard instead of mowing your own?

Typical JoeUser "I've lost the debate" technique; attack the poster, not the article. Weak, weak, weak. I've noticed you do this in other threads too. I don't think Americans can take the heat of criticism, so you lash out with your bitterness at others. Nice. It's gonna get a lot hotter between now and November.

Look at it. "Americans don't have socialized health care, blah, blah, blah". Same garbage as always with an MSNBC article tagged onto it to give it some validity. You don't ever feel nosey? What percentage of JU articles would you say are Americans bitching and whineing about Canadian politics?

Nothing about Canadian politics and culture makes me feel for an instant you have any moral ground to stand on regarding American politics. I mean, you contribute *zilch* to our system, you don't have any stake in the changes you pretend we "need" to make. You don't do anything but sit up there and whine and pretend you are better off.

It slipped my mind that you were a Canadian, or I wouldn't have posted on this thread, anyway. Your "view from afar" of an MSNBC article is of little interest now that I see that you have no contribution to make and little insight to give.

American taxes are much lower than Canadian taxes. What are you talking about?  We're right on the border with canada and have Canadian employees and you guys get sucked dry compared to us.

My health care is quite good. I have an ear infection (still have it) and made an appointment with the doctor at noon and was in to see him by 1:30pm same day (this was yesterday). Was out with a prescription by 2:00pm which I got filled 15 minutes later.  Total cost to me: $15. And though I'm taxed at 33%, that is still less than the 40% tax rate in Canada. Oh and don't forget the $400 Health Premium I would pay (if I lived in Ontario).  It would take me almost 30 trips to the doctor each year to get up to that cost.  And that's all if I live in Ontario, the cheapest place. If I lived in Quebec, it would be much worse (over 50%).

YOur problem David is that you seem to be so blinded in your dislike of the United States that you haven't noticed the glass house that is Canada.

Your entire argument is incredibly weak.  Do you even know what the tax rates are in the United States? Did you bother to research this topic at all?

You didn't even provide any evidence. You just expect us to buy into your argument.

According to this website: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2065/is_4_53/ai_81223341/pg_14 Canada's Government spending represented 46% of its GDP. The US was at 33%.  How can you call that just a few percentage points?

In short:

1) Canada's government seems to spend a LOT more as a percent of GDP than the United States.

2) Canadians pay higher taxes.

3) The typical Canadian pays more for their health insurance than Americans ($400 per year versus <$20 per visit for the typical American). 

The only downside to the American system that I can see is that around 15% of Americans have no insurance.

Here's another article (from Quebec) that compares government spending of various countries by GDP: http://www.quebecoislibre.org/000304-8.htm

THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT IN OECD COUNTRIES, 1960–96  
Total Government Outlays as a Percentage of GDP  

Country     Australia  Canada   France   Germany  Ireland   Italy  Japan  NZ   Sweden  UK  USA  Average

1960     21  29  35  32  28  30  17  28  31  32  28

1970     25  36  39  39  40  34  19  34  44  39  32

1980     34  40  46  48  51  42  33  47  62  45  34

1990     38  48  50  46  41  54  32  50  61  42  35

1996      37  46  55  56  38  53  37  42  66  44  35

 

So given the premise of David's article is demonstratably wrong, what now?

 

I am barely middle class econimically. I'm the class that Democrats abuse by calling "low income" though we are all over the poverty level.

I pay right around 400 per month for health insurance. I'd rather pay once for a used car and devote my excess to insurance, but there are people I know people near me who are bleeding heart activists for socialized health care, driving cars I could never afford, and can't afford their own health insurance. They just want other people's taxes to pay for their insurance so they can drive a nicer car. Most of them never pay any taxes, so they never have anything to fear.

That is the kind of thing you are blind to, Dave. You have no idea what contributes to this perceived "poverty", so you are clueless as to how to fix it. You just pass our own self-criticism and ride its authority.

You need to look back at your posts and see who is ugly. You are the one constantly criticising a system you don't contribute to or face the problems of. Butt out or learn how to be a responsible critic.

YOur problem David is that you seem to be so blinded in your dislike of the United States that you haven't noticed the glass house that is Canada.

Your words, not mind. I do not dislike America. Some aspects of American pulic policy are abhorrent. This does not constitute dislike of the USA. You assume I or anyone who has anything critical to say about USA is anti American, which of course is weak logic. I''ve spent plenty of time criticizing my own country, so you make another false assumption that I don't criticize my own country. You've actually quoted me in other blogs criticzing my own country (hate crime laws), so you know better. Ontario is not the cheapest place in Canada, Alberta is. I don't have time right now to correct the other errors.

So given the premise of David's article is demonstratably wrong, what now?

You provided stats from 1996, that's eight years ago; I can guarantee Canadian public spending is not 46% today, and anyone with knowledge of Canadian fiscal policy knows why. If sufficiently inspired I may post accurate figures, not false, outdated figures like you. So now that your 'facts' have been exposed as out of date, inaccurate and self serving, what now? Thanks for your comments.

am barely middle class econimically. I'm the class that Democrats abuse by calling "low income" though we are all over the poverty level. I pay right around 400 per month for health insurance. I'd rather pay once for a used car and devote my excess to insurance, but there are people I know people near me who are bleeding heart activists for socialized health care, driving cars I could never afford, and can't afford their own health insurance. They just want other people's taxes to pay for their insurance so they can drive a nicer car. Most of them never pay any taxes, so they never have anything to fear. That is the kind of thing you are blind to, Dave. You have no idea what contributes to this perceived "poverty", so you are clueless as to how to fix it. You just pass our own self-criticism and ride its authority. You need to look back at your posts and see who is ugly. You are the one constantly criticising a system you don't contribute to or face the problems of. Butt out or learn how to be a responsible critic.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. But you sure sound mad as hell about something or other. Aw, baby want a bottle? Can't take a little criticism? Boo. Hoo. Hoo.

Okay David, you "gaurantee" that Canadian GDP spending isn't 46%.  Then what is it?

Tell us.

I found the most recent stastics I could find.   Since you made the claim that both are about the same, you must have read that some where.  Share with us where you got the data.

You aren't even right about Alberta.  Alberta's tax rate is "only" 39% (1% less than Ontario) but their health care premium is $1056 which I consider to be a pretty good chunk of change. 

Oh, BTW, that tax bracket of 39% in "cheap" Alberta would be 25% for the same person in the United States without the $1056 Insurance payment.

But so that we don't lose the central issue: The available data shows you're wrong on..well pretty much everything. How about providing just ONE link that backs up even one of your points? Or is this data only available to Canadian members of the Stone Cutters or something?

 

But you sure sound mad as hell about something or other. Aw, baby want a bottle? Can't take a little criticism? Boo. Hoo. Hoo.

. This from a guy who just wrote an article whose central premise is totally wrong but now claims to apparently have secret information not publicly available that Canadian GDP spending is "far less" than 46%. 

Here is something I found from last year: http://www.fin.gc.ca/wp/2003-05e.html It starts off with this "It is well known that total government spending relative to GDP is higher in Canada than in the United States..."

Apparently this fact wasn't "well known" to David.

Dave, I really don't expect you to remember what your diatribes are about, since the real point is usually a lot different.

You state above that Canada's wonderful system ensures socialized health care for "a little" more tax obligation, but you have no clue what it would take to get socialized health care to work here, you have no idea why people here don't have health insurance.

But like I say, you don't have to have any real perspective, so you rehash our own self-criticism and use it to exemplify how Canada does things better than we do. If you can't see your obtuse ugliness in your original post, how you use an unrelated MSNBC story to jab the US for not having socialized health care, then you really are even less responsible than I thought you were.

Regardless, Halliburton is NOT why our taxes are "high", and it isn't why you have socialized health care and we don't. You, as a Canadian, have no insight to prove these points, and seem to have no need to prove them. Just toss them out there and look smug.

I am still waiting for David to provide evidence for his main points:

I mean, the title of his article is "Why your taxes are so high" and so far the data all goes against him.

And then his other premise is that Canada spends only a little more as a % of its GDP but again, the stats don't back him up there.

Every place I go on the net there seems to be a pretty good difference in government involvement per GDP.

Tax as a percent of GDP: USA 28% Canada 37%.  That's a pretty big difference.

And when these things are pointed out to David all we get in response is abuse and ofuscation.

You aren't even right about Alberta. Alberta's tax rate is "only" 39% (1% less than Ontario) but their health care premium is $1056 which I consider to be a pretty good chunk of change

Ontario sales tax: 8%
Alberta sales tax: 0%

Trust me on this, Drag. Alberta is cheaper, much cheaper.

If malpheasance is the main reason for high taxes, Canada must have corruption in bulk. Physician, heal thine own political mess...

Sales tax? We don't have a national sales tax in the US, so if you are blaming sales tax in the US on Bush and Halliburton you just show your ignorance of the system.

How about some income tax information, since you broached the subject yourself blaming our federal government. Unless you are blaming Halliburton for our local sales taxes (that haven't changed where I live in years...)

Here is something I found from last year: http://www.fin.gc.ca/wp/2003-05e.html It starts off with this "It is well known that total government spending relative to GDP is higher in Canada than in the United States..."

You have reading comprehension difficulties. I wrote: "Canadian govenrments tax and spend only a few % points more than their American counterparts". Executive summary: Canadian governments spend more than American ones. You are echoing what I just said, as if it contradicts your newfound "fact". It doesn't. You are repeating what I just said

You state above that Canada's wonderful system ensures socialized health care for "a little" more tax obligation, but you have no clue what it would take to get socialized health care to work here, you have no idea why people here don't have health insurance.

You make another false assumption that I am in favour of socialized medicine in the USA. I am not. I did not say our system was 'wonderful', that would be another misrepresentation of facts. And I did not suggest our system costs "a little more"; read it again. I can't help it if yoru reading comprehension is that bad. You type way faster than me, I'm having a hard time keeping up and disproving most of your statements.

And when these things are pointed out to David all we get in response is abuse and ofuscation.

I di not abuse you and I did not ofuscate. That's another couple of lies. Please stop lying, lies make baby Jesus cry

This from a guy who just wrote an article whose central premise is totally wrong but now claims to apparently have secret information not publicly available that Canadian GDP spending is "far less" than 46%.

I did notclaim to have secret information not publicly available. That is a lie.

Dave, I really don't expect you to remember what your diatribes are about, since the real point is usually a lot different.

My posts are logical and don't rely on emotions, which means characterizing them as diatribes is false. You guys are the one's who can't make a simple post without the vernacular of vitriol.

how you use an unrelated MSNBC story to jab the US for not having socialized health care

Reading comprehension, again. I only used this as a point of reference. A 6 year old child reading my article would know this post is not about health insurance; it's about how much the "War" on "Terror" costs. $18 billion here, a billion a day there, pretty soon you're taking real money. Please stop hijacking my post with your offtopic "ranting" and "diatribes" about healthcare.

Regardless, Halliburton is NOT why our taxes are "high", and it isn't why you have socialized health care and we don't.

Reading comprehension, again.

Thank you for your comments.

David, for the sake of argument I'll happilly say that Alberta, land of 39% taxes and $1056 insurance payments is the cheapest place in Canada to live.

I'll also enjoy that fact with a healthy dose of irony that the person who triumphs in that statistic is talking about how Americans, who pay far less in taxes, are being overtaxed.

So to recap: A person living in Alberta making $60k (US) per year is taxed at 39% and pays $1056 while the same person living in say..oh how about Texas (Bush's home state) would be taxed at 25%.  And I would venture that that person's health care is better (though that's just my opinion).

For instance, in Alberta Canada, could I make an appoiintment to see a doctor at say noon on a Friday and get in there by 1:30pm and be out by 2pm for a non-emergency visit (Eustacian tube dysfunction -- ETD)? I know you can here since I did and it's no biggie. But can you in Canada? The Canadians I work with that I asked about this say no way in hell.

Sales tax? We don't have a national sales tax in the US, so if you are blaming sales tax in the US on Bush and Halliburton you just show your ignorance of the system.

OK, I didn't come anywhere near saying this. Now you're just making stuff up and it looks kinda sad. Some might say pathetic. Give it up.

Reading comprehension? No, you clearly implied that the GDP spending of both was roughly the same "only a few %" as in not very much. 

A few, btw is generally considered to be an amount between 3 and 5.  The % difference between 46% and 35% is not 9% (which intself is greater than "a few"). It's closer to 25%. That's a pretty significant difference in GDP spending.

You are also combining the points between Bakerstreet and myself without any differentiation. No one is lying except you (or at best, you are misleading). 

Is there anything in your original thesis that is actually true?  Or are you too busy trying to assert that you are "disproving" our statements simply by disagreeing? Is that like some sort of super power? Being able to disprove something simply by disagreeing?

I'll also enjoy that fact with a healthy dose of irony that the person who triumphs in that statistic

I do not 'triumph' this statistic. That is a lie. Please stop lying on my blog. Thank you

So to recap: A person living in Alberta making $60k (US) per year is taxed at 39% and pays $1056 while the same person living in say..oh how about Texas (Bush's home state) would be taxed at 25%. And I would venture that that person's health care is better (though that's just my opinion).

The Canadian tax system is more complicated than that. Provinces may not directly tax income, it's in the constitution. Tthe 39% figure you are using is a percentage of federal income tax paid, not a percentage of income. Apples and fishes.

For instance, in Alberta Canada, could I make an appoiintment to see a doctor at say noon on a Friday and get in there by 1:30pm and be out by 2pm for a non-emergency visit (Eustacian tube dysfunction -- ETD)? I know you can here since I did and it's no biggie. But can you in Canada? The Canadians I work with that I asked about this say no way in hell.

Please stop ranting off topic. I'd also appreciate it if you would stop lying on my blog. Thanks.

... YOU brought up Canadian health care...

I found it sad that you couldn't prove your point about income tax and had to fall back on unrelated sales tax. You are the one that is making broad claims and dragging in diversionary statistics.

YOU give it up. Your original statement is FALSE. Americans don't have high taxes, and the rate we have has little or nothing to do with Halliburton. Your jabs about your moderately ineffectual health care system was just icing on the cake.

You invite scrutiny, and your bloviation doesn't hold up to it.

P.S. Do you even know how many Americans PAY income tax? I bet you don't.