Sins Counters Update

whoa, LRLs have CAPITAL armor?
no wonder they are so powerful, good armor and they do effectively 100% damage to everything threatening save sieges and LRMs, which take .75

I look forward to visualizing this as I play my next game.

this is what we've all been waiting for, thank you so much for giving us the necessary foundation of understanding counters, so we can now start to make plans rather than randomly building stuff

and when i say we, i mean the people who were not in beta

none of the LRM's have capital armour in 1.02, is this is based on 1.03 or typo?

from frigatepsilongrange.entity

TXT
entityType "Frigate"
defaultAutoAttackRange "GravityWell"
defaultAutoAttackOn TRUE
prefersToFocusFire TRUE
autoJoinFleetDefault TRUE
canBomb FALSE
frigateRoleType "Lrm"
statCountType "FrigateLongRange"
mainViewIcon "MAINVIEWICON_FRIGATE_PSILONGRANGE"
picture "PICTURE_FRIGATE_PSILONGRANGE"
NameStringID "IDS_FRIGATE_PSILONGRANGE_NAME"
DescriptionStringID "IDS_FRIGATE_PSILONGRANGE_DESCRIPTION"
counterDescriptionStringID "IDS_COUNTERDESC_FRIGATE_LONGRANGE"
basePrice
credits 350.000000
metal 50.000000
crystal 40.000000
slotCount 6.000000
BuildTime 22.000000
hasLevels FALSE
ExperiencePointsForDestroying 45.000000
MaxHullPoints 500.000000
MaxShieldPoints 500.000000
HullPointRestoreRate 1.000000
ShieldPointRestoreRate 1.000000
BaseArmorPoints 2.000000
maxMitigation 0.6
Prerequisites
NumResearchPrerequisites 1
ResearchPrerequisite
Subject "RESEARCHSUBJECT_FRIGATEACCESS_LONGRANGEPSI"
Level 1
numRandomDebrisLarge 0
numRandomDebrisSmall 7
numSpecificDebris 0
armorType "Light"
hudIcon "HUDICON_FRIGATE_PSILONGRANGE"

PLEASE can we get more of those counter diagrams, for the other races, or maybe one big counter diagram to encompass all of them?

pleeeeease, it would help us play better

you had mentioned in your referenced post:
In Sins the unit-unit counter diagram can’t be represented with a simple Spear > Cavalry > Archer > Infantry > Spear circle (which also has the advantage of being an intuitive real world relationship). I don’t even know if we could make a proper diagram because a lot depends on state but we do have one drawn on a great big white board in the office that is our attempt at a holistic overview (and was used to guide the design and balance process).

could we perhaps have that big white board diagram posted?

thank you devs :CONGRAT:

The only significant difference in damage and armour types between races is that Advent long range frigates do Capital damage (whereas TEC and Vasari ones do AntiMedium).

As far as I'm aware, the other ship types all have the same armour and damage types, regardless of race (all Light frigates, for example, have Medium armour and AntiHeavy damage).

Very cool, thank you.

Thanks!

It was a typo on my part as they have light armor, I just got overzealous with the copy/paste. :SURPRISED:

Fixed.

SeiraBlack.

I love you.

... this chart is a godsend.

Thanks for the chart it is very helpful. However, there are a couple of combinations that I can't understand:

Why should anti-med wpns be more effective against very hvy armor (75%) than anti-hvy wpns vs very hvy armor (50%). It would make a lot more sense to me if those two were reversed.

The same holds true for anti-med wpns vs capital armor (75%) compared to anti-hvy wpns vs capital armor (50%).

Any explaination regarding this would be very helpful. Apart from this oddity the rest of the table is very intuitive (as it should be).

Probably balance issues -- they want light frigates (anti-heavy)to be less effective against buildings than LRMs, for example.

That said... I thought it was the Vasari LRM analog that did anti-capitol, not the Advent version...

nope that was another misconception made by a few people (possibly one, but a few started stating it as though its true) who made a mistake.

heres a nice link and I havent found any errors with it (they directly get the info from the files, no chance of typo) and I usually double check the entity files as I've just done now to make sure the site is correct.

Link with stats for each long range ship, extracted from the files in a easy to read format

Thanks,

I play a lot of starcraft and warcraft III and these charts are my bible. Could you please put these things up in a more public place than the developer's forum? WCIII has a nice strategy guide online where you can look up each units armor type, damage, upgrades, etc. It would be really great if there were a strategy section on the main page, even if it just led to these charts and nothing else.

[ Squadron Support AKA carriers -> according to manual , Armor type = Medium, plz check ]

I think the manual is wrong - the files say Heavy.

seirablack, ty for the great chart. Is there any possibility you can remake or resize the chart to make it a bit larger? I'm interested in using it as a wallpaper but i have a 1920x1200 resolution monitor. If you could double the resolution or make a wallpaper out of the chart it would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

so illuminator has capital damage? strange..

Actually, and far more likely, its one of the things that got changed from Beta 4 -> release.

i can't see the counters picture no more why did you take it out?

DEAD:
http://www.crimsonsky.com/images/Sins-Ship-Damage-Chart.jpg

can someone rehost the picture please?

EDIT: thx for rehosting the picture, saved it myself this time, good job - easy on the eye

Is it just me or does this chart basically imply that the Bomber "mini-ships" are more effective in every area than the fighters?

not every area.

fighters are much more effective against light and very light armors; i.e. enemy fighters, bombers, siege frigates, lrm frigates, colony frigates, scout frigates, and trade ships.

bombers are only better than fighters against support cruisers, carrier cruisers, heavy cruisers, light frigates, flak frigates(moot), capital ships, and structures.

overall i'd say its pretty balanced considering how common strike craft and LRM frigates are in the game.

You think they'll ever make the game more expansive, galaxy wise. They should at the very least make it where mods can be downloaded, direct from game, intstead of having you do all the work. I get confused most of the time, doing it, and have only successively done it once.

I think they should make a galaxy, where each person starts out w/ 1 to 12 planets each, and their own star system. Each planet should be able to build one free cap ship of choice. Then again, that's how i just dream the game to be.

Plus, are they doing anything new with next patch, 1.04, or are they even making one as of?

Your joking, right?



1.04 was aimed to come out this week (doesn't look like they made it...) and there are most assuredly plans for further patches.