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Viewpoints & Arguments

Viewpoints & Arguments

Life Questions

It's been said that the two greatest questions of life are "where did life come from?" and "what is the purpose of this life?" Many different philosophers throughout the centuries have attempted to answer these questions basically coming down to six different viewpoints.

1. Atheistic- Atheism says that everything comes from nothing. There is no God. There is no purpose in life. Might makes right as Hitler believed. There is no absolute rule as there is no God to dictate such rules.

2. Agnostic- While the atheist says there is definitely no God and the Christian says there IS a God, the agnostic says we can't know and won't know if there is a god. Agnosticism was first coined by Aldous Huxley in 1869. He was called Darwin's Bulldog.

3. Pantheism- First thought to have originated from the Dutch Philosopher Spinoza who died in 1677, this belief says all is god and god is all . God is the trees, the trees are God. This belief recognizes the divine in nature rather than nature being separate or distinct from its creator.

4. Polytheism- Poly meaning many and theism meaning God. This belief is in "many gods." Pagans did and still do believe in the many gods of nature. There was the sky god, the water god, the fire god, the earth god and so on.

5. Deism-Edward Hebert who died in 1648 was the founder of Deism. While this belief was closer to the truth as a belief in Deism does have God at its root, it stops short of the biblical, personal God. Deism, while it does answer the first question doesn't help us much with the second. Deism is sort of like God winding up the earth like an alarm clock and then walking away havng no interest in being there when it goes off.

6. Monotheism- Mono meaning one is a belief in one God. In this position God did create life and is always interestsed in it epecially in his creation of man.

The greatest and most profound idea the human mind can ever entertain concerns the possibility of the existence of a personal God. The importance of man's response to this idea cannot be exaggerated. It will not only govern his life down here but will also determine his ultimate destiny. Unless one satisfactorily answers the who question, he cannot possibly solve the how, why, when and where problems of his own existence.

There are different philosophical arguments for the existence of God. The first one is the universal belief argument which says all mankind has some idea of a Supreme Being. This argument has often been challenged but never refuted. While the concepts of God found among many cultures and civilizations differ greatly on the number, name and nature of this Supreme Being, the idea still remains.

I gave a classic example of this the other day with Helen Keller who was blind, deaf and dumb. When first introduced to God she responded with joy saying...."I always knew He was there, but I didn't know His name." Pretty interesting.

Another argument would be the cosmological argument. Cosmos means "systematic order of things" and Logos means "study or word." This argument says that every effect must have an adequate cause. It's sort of like if you were in bed reading a book late at night and you suddenly hear a noise. Since crime is very prevalent in your neighborhood you have every reason to go there first. But in your mind you try and rationalize this saying it's the wind, a mouse, the cat or maybe a book fell in the other room. You don't want to admit the chilling possibility of what could be the truth. You don't want to go there. From a Christian perspective every design has a designer. We may not want to go there first. We may want to rationalize this and come up with a myriad of other possibilities.

Then there is the anthropological argument which says that the conscience and moral nature of man demands a self-conscious and moral Maker. This built-in barometer supplies no information, and the information on which it passes judgment may be incorrect. But conscience tells us we ought to do what is right regarding the information we have.

We know the conscience may be weak, defiled, good, seared, strong or pure but it is never absent. Where did the conscience come from? The only accurate explanation is that the great Moral Being who created us all planted the moral sense in us. No other explanation will do.

I'm sure there are other arguments for the existence of God but I especially love the scriptural argument for God. Well maybe I should say lack thereof. The Bible simply assumes the existence of God. There are no arguments for the existence of God biblically speaking. God assumes all mankind will know or does know in His existence. We have to be taught to be an atheist. It doesn't come naturally.

"For the Scripture then, the existence of God is both a historical truth (God acted into history), and an existential truth (God reveals himself to every soul). His existence is both objectively and subjectively evident. It is necessary logically because our assumption of order, design, and rationally rests upon it. It is necessary morally because there is no explanation for the shape of morality apart from it. It is necessary personally because the exhaustion of all material possibilities still cannot give satisfaction to the heart. The deepest proof for God's existence apart from history is just life itself. God has created man in his image, and man cannot elude the implications of this fact. Everywhere His identity pursues him. "

Clark Pinnock "Set Forth Your Case"

38,185 views 96 replies
Reply #26 Top
Yep, don't forget your cool killin' hat. Everyone has to have a cool hat when they're out killin'.


Maybe I can get Mason to knit me one?
Reply #27 Top

It might be but it's the only one that seems to make sense. I've heard that human emotions are hard to explain from any other belief system. Where do they come from? How did we receive our conscience? We all know deep down whether we chose to follow or not that murder is wrong. We don't need to be told this.


Interesting fact - we don't know that murder is wrong from birth. Entire cultures have been built around that fact. The Mongols conquered Asia and Eastern Europe because they didn't consider murder of outsiders to be wrong.

Our rejection of murder is a societal thing, not an inbuilt biological thing. That's why vegans have a stronger rejection of murder than psychopaths. It's not because they were born to be vegans.
Reply #28 Top
I kn ow what you mean about the "not judge" mantra. I've heard it, too. I'm a non-Christian, but I don't love the mantra.

The only person I can totally honestly believe is a born again Christian is myself.


Now you've said something I completely agree with.
Reply #29 Top
I kn ow what you mean about the "not judge" mantra. I've heard it, too. I'm a non-Christian, but I don't love the mantra.


well that's good Ock. At least you can consider youself theologically correct here......lol.

It's funny but it used to be John 3:16 that was so well known...you know......."For God so loved the world........?"

Now it's changed to "Judge not least you be judged." Says a bit about our culture I think.

Reply #30 Top

 

I mean how can one out and out say there isn't a God? I mean don't you have to have the answer to everything to make such a statement? Who knows the answer to every single math problem forget about all the questions of life? So doesn't it make more sense to say you don't BELIEVE there is a God?

I guess I would have to ask you, since you don't have all the answers, how can you say there IS a God?  I think it's just as easy to say there is no God as it is to say there is a God.  If you want to play semantics, all either can truly say is that they believe there is or there isn't.  If you can't say you believe there is, then you are an Atheist, even if you say you don't believe there is one.  It's one or the other.

He was killing more than just Jews. He killed millions of others as well. Check your history. The Jews just got the lion share of attention. THe best we can say is Hitler was a madman but certainly he wasn't following the mandates of Christianity.
 

I know my history quite well, thank you.  But do you?  Hitler (more accurately, his Nazi party) killed about 11 -12 million (there is no official count since the Soviet Union was also destroying Poland at the same time) people during his reign (he fails in comparison to Stalin).  But, what makes it remarkable IS the fact that he singled out Jews, and that a lot of the non-Jews were killed because they were assumed to be associated with, or hiding Jews.  Yes, i am aware that many non-Jewish Poles were killed and that he focused on the Aryan race (which determined the fate of a lot of children), but it does t negate the fact that he concentrated in exterminating Jews.

No, not really. Would you like to give me some examples? The killing you speak of had nothing to do with them being non-believers. Christ prayed for them that put him on the cross. We read in Romans that Christ died for the sinners and unbelievers. He died so that we might believe him.

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

I find it interesting that you say that the bible does not give examples of killing in the name of Christianity, but once examples are shown, you say nothing.

 

Reply #31 Top
I find it interesting that you say that the bible does not give examples of killing in the name of Christianity, but once examples are shown, you say nothing.


Because I've covered this and given it a huge amount of time especially when Baker was around here. I will absolutely stand by my statement that people were NOT killed for NOT being a follower of (back then) Jehovah God.

To put simply.........

EVERY wrathful judgment in the history of the world by God has been a holy act of preservaton. He hates sin as a mother hates the cancer that would take the life of her child. Each and every example you give in context has an explanation as to why this had to be done for the preservation of society where violence was the way of life.

It's very easy for you to pull out a few scriptures out of context and point out to what a mean ol' God we have. Usually that gets plenty of notice from the agnostics but they will completely ignore that God himself came down and gave his own life as payment for our sins. Also ignored is how patient, and forgiving God was throughout the OT as his own people continued to walk away from him even after he showed them repeatedly his protection of them. They were totally unfaithful to him similar to a wife who commits adultery against the husband she loves.



Reply #32 Top
I guess I would have to ask you, since you don't have all the answers, how can you say there IS a God?


Because God HAS made himself known to me. Absolutely. It's not a "I think or I believe there is a God." I can say without hesitation, "There definitely is a God."

It's like he opened my eyes to him where I was blind before. Now I see. That's what it is. We were blind but now we see. Remember this song?

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis Grace that brought me safe thus far
and Grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me.
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

When we've been here ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun.
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we've first begun.


Reply #33 Top

Because I've covered this and given it a huge amount of time especially when Baker was around here. I will absolutely stand by my statement that people were NOT killed for NOT being a follower of (back then) Jehovah God.

To put simply.........

EVERY wrathful judgment in the history of the world by God has been a holy act of preservaton. He hates sin as a mother hates the cancer that would take the life of her child. Each and every example you give in context has an explanation as to why this had to be done for the preservation of society where violence was the way of life.

So, you assume that I have read everything that you have written?

If God is the father of man, why would he need to rage war against his Children?  Is causing one child to sin (murdering another) eradicating sin?  Isn't it just justifying one sin with another?  Or, is it not sin if it is the "Lord's work"?  If the Lord came to you and told you it was alright to blow up Iraq because they are sinners, are war hungry, and believe in a different God, does that make it OK?

What is God talked to Hitler and told him to kill the Jews, those who lived with the Jews, and take their land (Poland) so that they had space to live and flourish in the embrace of the Lord.  Would that justify the killings?  If that is what he thinks he did, is it too far fetched to believe that he saw it the same as the other hostile take overs talked about in the bible? 

Would it be OK if the barbaric things described in the bible happened in current life?  Would you be able to justify them as God's will?  Or, would they be the work of Satan?

 

It's very easy for you to pull out a few scriptures out of context and point out to what a mean ol' God we have.

OK, can you explain the context of this, and how this is a good "Christian" example in the bible?: "After this, David subdued and humbled the Philistines by conquering Gath, their largest city.  David also conquered the land of Moab.  He made the people lie down on the ground in a row, and he measured them off in groups with a length of rope.  He measured off two groups to be executed for every one group to be spared.  The Moabites who were spared became David's servants and brought him tribute money.   (2 Samuel 8:1-2 NLT)"

Or, if You prefer the King James bible: " And after this it came to pass that David smote the Philistines, and subdued them: and David took Methegammah out of the hand of the Philistines. And he smote Moab, and measured them with a line, casting them down to the ground; even with two lines measured he to put to death, and with one full line to keep alive. And so the Moabites became David's servants, and brought gifts

How can executing anyone be in the best interest of a loving God?  And then enslaving others to be servants?  Gee, that sounds like a good thing to read your kids at bedtime.  My question was if there were references in the bible about killing for Christianity, not if God was "mean".

One of my all time favorites is Deuteronomy:

 1 When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the LORD thy God is with thee, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

 2 And it shall be, when ye are come nigh unto the battle, that the priest shall approach and speak unto the people,

 3 And shall say unto them, Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them;

 4 For the LORD your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.

 5 And the officers shall speak unto the people, saying, What man is there that hath built a new house, and hath not dedicated it? let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man dedicate it.

 6 And what man is he that hath planted a vineyard, and hath not yet eaten of it? let him also go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man eat of it.

 7 And what man is there that hath betrothed a wife, and hath not taken her? let him go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man take her.

 8 And the officers shall speak further unto the people, and they shall say, What man is there that is fearful and fainthearted? let him go and return unto his house, lest his brethren's heart faint as well as his heart.

 9 And it shall be, when the officers have made an end of speaking unto the people that they shall make captains of the armies to lead the people.

 10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

 11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

 12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

 13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

 14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

 15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

 16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

 17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:

 18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.

 19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:

 20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.

Hmm...tell them to be peaceful with you, and if they don't?  Well, take them over, kill everything, and keep making war until it's yours.

Yeah...I can see how there is absolutely nobody on Earth who could read the bible then act out as if they were living by God's will.  I am sure that there is nobody that has ever taken the written word at face value and used it as the purpose for a war, or to murder people.  The bible is so utterly peaceful, it's impossible to see how anyone could be inspired by its violence.  Yeah....

 

 

Reply #34 Top
So, you assume that I have read everything that you have written?


well maybe. It had been an ongoing subject for quite a while back then so I just figured just about everyone here would have caught this at one time or another. It wasn't just a one time occurrance.

If God is the father of man, why would he need to rage war against his Children?


First off your statement here alone is not theologically correct. God is the creator of all but not the Father of all. Maybe you haven't seen my answer to this assertion as well but it's clear that there are two fathers. One is the Creator God and the other is Satan. Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and said they were following their father the devil (John 8). Christ made it quite clear we are all not Sons of God.

See there is a great plan unfolding here right from the get go. You mention Jews and Hitler. This is also part of God's plan as we culminate this age. They had to go into their own land. This is prophecy written 600 BC coming true right before our very eyes (Ezek 37-38)

As a result of the Holocaust, they did acquire this and were allowed to go back after wandering with no country of their own for 2000 years. God didn't tell Hitler (influenced by Satan) to kill the Jews. Satan has always had a unnatural hatred for the Jews and this is not the first time they were almost wiped out entirely. THere were other times both in secular and biblical history this was done. But God would never allow this to happen totally even tho he did take his hand of protection of them at times (like the Holocaust) for his purpose and will. The very fact there are Jews still here intact after all this is probably one of the greatest proofs of scripture. All the other cultures are gone or assimilated into other countries.

It's like this Karma. Imagine a large parade going by your home but you have a large fence out in front. There's a peep hole in the fence and your little girl, not being tall enough to see the parade from the top of the fence settles in and looks thru the hole. In the very front is the band, in the middle are the clowns and the end are all the firetrucks. All she can see is what is right in front of her. She can only see the present. When she watches the clowns go by she can't see the band that went on ahead. She missed that part. She can't see the trucks yet as they have not caught up to her present.

Now God is sitting on the fence. He sees the past, the present and the future. He makes his decisions on being able to see it all. He's omniscient we are not.

But, I'll tell you what. Since you went to the trouble of giving me all that info I'll write up an explanation from a Christian POV on those hard things you speak of. I'll give it a title that should draw your attention and it'll be posted in the religious forums. I just figured you'd seen all those articles previously posted on all this already.

You didn't give me the chapter in Deut...just the verses.

Reply #35 Top
God is the creator of all but not the Father of all.


I'm not being an ass. Didn't God create Satan? If so, then Satan's children are still "grandchildren" (yes, I know it isn't that kind of relationship - hopefully you see what I'm saying.)

Hey KFC, maybe you'll see the positive in this. I don't believe in Satan even MORE than I don't believe in God. In fact, if I was say, 95% sure there was no God, I'm 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% sure there's no Satan. Puzzle that one out hehe.

He makes his decisions on being able to see it all. He's omniscient we are not.


And omnipotent, too, I hear. I wonder if he is so omnipotent as to be able to change his future mind.
Reply #36 Top
I'm not being an ass. Didn't God create Satan? If so, then Satan's children are still "grandchildren" (yes, I know it isn't that kind of relationship - hopefully you see what I'm saying.)


No. Satan was created by God, but so were people. If God isn't the Father of people He created, then He's not the Father of Satan either, therefore they're not grandchildren.
Reply #37 Top
Yes, God did create Satan. He was created as a beautiful head cherub. He rebelled against God and is in no way considered a son of God. He was one of God's most beautiful creations.

I wonder if he is so omnipotent as to be able to change his future mind.


He's immutable Ock. What exactly are you thinking of here? All powerful is something different.



Reply #38 Top
Hey KFC, maybe you'll see the positive in this. I don't believe in Satan even MORE than I don't believe in God. In fact, if I was say, 95% sure there was no God, I'm 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% sure there's no Satan. Puzzle that one out hehe.


Well I'd say you either believe or you don't. I guess I can look at it in two ways. One way looking at your 5% means there's a glimmer of hope for you. I mean at least you're not starting at ground 0. The other way of looking at it is looking at the 95% and thinking that's not going to help you much.

Did you know that one of Satan's biggest lies is to convince you he doesn't exist? Think about that.

I'll be so bold to say that I believe in both with 100% of my being.

So that means one of us is right and the other is wrong.
Reply #39 Top
So that means one of us is right and the other is wrong.


Well, let's just say you're right. I don't need to be, and you do.
Reply #40 Top

Atheistic- Atheism says that everything comes from nothing. There is no God. There is no purpose in life. Might makes right as Hitler believed. There is no absolute rule as there is no God to dictate such rules.


Your definition of atheism is somewhat less useful than it should be.

Monotheism also says that "everything comes from nothing"; monotheists cannot explain where G-d comes from whereas atheists only cannot explain where the universe comes from.

Monotheism merely shifts the problem one level up: if we cannot explain where X comes from, let's say Y, something even more complicated than X, generated it. That alone is not helpful.

Atheists don't believe in a god or gods, but they might well believe in lots of other weird things, like aliens or demons (or angels). All-in-all "atheism" as a term is simply an umbrella term for too many philosophies and religions that are a lot more different from each other than Christianity is from Islam.

Besides, the label "atheist" is also problematic because it also overlaps with other religions. I understand a Buddhist can be an atheist. An orthodox observant religious Jew can also be an atheist; he would not have any gods besides the Creator and might follow all of His laws to the word but does not believe in Him. Is he more like a Jew or more like a militant atheist?

Atheists can also see a purpose in life. They can say that man himself is life's purpose (like Christians do), or they could argue that space aliens created earth and everyone here and we are programmed for a certain purpose. And they could believe in absolute rule, like Hitler did; just not in G-d's absolute rule.
Reply #41 Top
Yes, God did create Satan. He was created as a beautiful head cherub. He rebelled against God and is in no way considered a son of God. He was one of God's most beautiful creations.


According to you. I, however, believe that every single person, every angel, every spirit, is a spirit child of Heavenly Father. I know that to be true because I have had spiritual confirmation. At the same time, the truth of the matter is, discussing religion here is completely pointless. Everyone believes different things, many are even one hundred percent convinced that they are completely right. You can't correct someone or tell them they are spouting "wrong theology" because it's true for them.

As for the people who don't believe in God or Christ, they're just using logic to explain life, and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. It's just different, and we should respect people's beliefs.
Reply #42 Top
As for the people who don't believe in God or Christ, they're just using logic to explain life, and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. It's just different, and we should respect people's beliefs.


Ah, that's the difficulty. How do you respect the beliefs of those you know are wrong? So difficult!

If logic was able to explain life it would have been explained already, and everyone would have come to the same conclusion.
Reply #43 Top
Ah, that's the difficulty. How do you respect the beliefs of those you know are wrong? So difficult!

If logic was able to explain life it would have been explained already, and everyone would have come to the same conclusion.


I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe, I know I'm right, you think you're right, but because humans have free will, it's your prerogative to think what you will.

See? It's easy, not difficult at all.
Reply #44 Top
Well, let's just say you're right. I don't need to be, and you do.


Gah!!! I don't mean it like that Ock. But I don't want to be wrong either. I mean we are both taking an opposite side of the fence so we can't both be right. Kind of reminds me of that bumper sticker that I used to have a long time ago....."If you don't believe in Hell, you'd better be right."

Your definition of atheism is somewhat less useful than it should be.


If you took the time to look at all the responses you'd see we'd already covered this. What I wrote is a viewpoint concerning the two questions on the table. I never set out to write a technical definition.

Monotheism also says that "everything comes from nothing"; monotheists cannot explain where G-d comes from whereas atheists only cannot explain where the universe comes from.


The difference being that the Monotheists have a spark that started the fire going. The Atheists have no spark. It just happened and we know that nothing comes from nothing.

Is he more like a Jew or more like a militant atheist?


Yes a Jew can be a Jew for tradition sake but really have no belief in Jehovah God. So yes I believe you can have a Jew who is an atheist.

According to you. I, however, believe that every single person, every angel, every spirit, is a spirit child of Heavenly Father.


Yes, well that's a Mormon doctrine and not one that I accept. I only accept things in the Holy Bible passed down from the historic early church. Actually what you just wrote contradicts the teaching of Christ.

Everyone believes different things, many are even one hundred percent convinced that they are completely right. You can't correct someone or tell them they are spouting "wrong theology" because it's true for them.


But how do you believe in these things to begin with if you don't discuss them? Somewhere along the line you have to discuss, study and meditate on these things and make up your own mind. If you grew up in a specific religion you have the choice to just believe to keep the peace with family members or come to your own conclusions whether you choose to stay in said faith or not. . In all reality somewhere along the line, you have to make your faith your faith and not a faith that was passed down to you.

Ah, that's the difficulty. How do you respect the beliefs of those you know are wrong? So difficult!If logic was able to explain life it would have been explained already, and everyone would have come to the same conclusion.


Amen Jay. It's not about logic or man's wisdom. Obviously all we have to do is look around and see that.

Reply #45 Top
But how do you believe in these things to begin with if you don't discuss them? Somewhere along the line you have to discuss, study and meditate on these things and make up your own mind. If you grew up in a specific religion you have the choice to just believe to keep the peace with family members or come to your own conclusions whether you choose to stay in said faith or not. . In all reality somewhere along the line, you have to make your faith your faith and not a faith that was passed down to you.


You misunderstand. AFTER you've meditated and discussed things, you have a belief. If you believe it with all of your heart, then it IS true. To you. To someone else it may be false. That's what I meant. For the last time, religion is ALL ABOUT FAITH. I know I'm right, you know you're right, so there is NO POINT in fighting about it because we believe what we will no matter what other people tell us. If we are set in our ways, there can be NO CHANGING OUR MINDS.

Yes, well that's a Mormon doctrine and not one that I accept. I only accept things in the Holy Bible passed down from the historic early church. Actually what you just wrote contradicts the teaching of Christ.


Well I don't accept what you claim. I have more, complete scriptures, and they explain themselves quite clearly. So, now I'm right, and you're wrong. ACCORDING TO ME.

See? We could do this until the cows come home, and never reach an agreement. That's my point.

Reply #46 Top
"Die, heretic!" - Emo Phillips
Reply #47 Top
Maybe at some point I'll take a look at the book of Mormon and figure out why some people swear by it and some people think it's bunk.
Reply #48 Top
If I was a Mormon, would I think that I (not a Mormon me) would not be going to heaven?

Reply #49 Top
religion is ALL ABOUT FAITH.


Well, at least the belief system anyway. The practices and rituals that go along with it really cement the faith for someone and the faith of the community of which they are apart. Going to a place of worship, for instance, is a way for a community to come together and bond over common beliefs. It is a place where they connect and bond socially. Religion is quite practical and predictable when you're not arguing over beliefs and teachings. It's a form of social cohesion and individual definition.

~Zoo
Reply #50 Top
If I was a Mormon, would I think that I (not a Mormon me) would not be going to heaven?


I don't think you're not going to heaven. The nice thing about my belief is that we believe that after we die, the soul, or spirit, survives. You go to the afterlife with all of the knowledge and personality you have in this life. The reason we baptize for the dead is to give those who didn't have a chance to accept the Gospel in this life will have the choice to accept it in the next, thereby receiving all of the blessings that come with it. So, no, I don't think you're not going to heaven, but if you choose not to accept the Gospel in the next life then maybe not. :)
(Any Mormons can correct me if I just spouted false docrine...;) )
But again, that's what I believe. Others may believe different things, and that's just the way it is.