Viewpoints & Arguments

Life Questions

It's been said that the two greatest questions of life are "where did life come from?" and "what is the purpose of this life?" Many different philosophers throughout the centuries have attempted to answer these questions basically coming down to six different viewpoints.

1. Atheistic- Atheism says that everything comes from nothing. There is no God. There is no purpose in life. Might makes right as Hitler believed. There is no absolute rule as there is no God to dictate such rules.

2. Agnostic- While the atheist says there is definitely no God and the Christian says there IS a God, the agnostic says we can't know and won't know if there is a god. Agnosticism was first coined by Aldous Huxley in 1869. He was called Darwin's Bulldog.

3. Pantheism- First thought to have originated from the Dutch Philosopher Spinoza who died in 1677, this belief says all is god and god is all . God is the trees, the trees are God. This belief recognizes the divine in nature rather than nature being separate or distinct from its creator.

4. Polytheism- Poly meaning many and theism meaning God. This belief is in "many gods." Pagans did and still do believe in the many gods of nature. There was the sky god, the water god, the fire god, the earth god and so on.

5. Deism-Edward Hebert who died in 1648 was the founder of Deism. While this belief was closer to the truth as a belief in Deism does have God at its root, it stops short of the biblical, personal God. Deism, while it does answer the first question doesn't help us much with the second. Deism is sort of like God winding up the earth like an alarm clock and then walking away havng no interest in being there when it goes off.

6. Monotheism- Mono meaning one is a belief in one God. In this position God did create life and is always interestsed in it epecially in his creation of man.

The greatest and most profound idea the human mind can ever entertain concerns the possibility of the existence of a personal God. The importance of man's response to this idea cannot be exaggerated. It will not only govern his life down here but will also determine his ultimate destiny. Unless one satisfactorily answers the who question, he cannot possibly solve the how, why, when and where problems of his own existence.

There are different philosophical arguments for the existence of God. The first one is the universal belief argument which says all mankind has some idea of a Supreme Being. This argument has often been challenged but never refuted. While the concepts of God found among many cultures and civilizations differ greatly on the number, name and nature of this Supreme Being, the idea still remains.

I gave a classic example of this the other day with Helen Keller who was blind, deaf and dumb. When first introduced to God she responded with joy saying...."I always knew He was there, but I didn't know His name." Pretty interesting.

Another argument would be the cosmological argument. Cosmos means "systematic order of things" and Logos means "study or word." This argument says that every effect must have an adequate cause. It's sort of like if you were in bed reading a book late at night and you suddenly hear a noise. Since crime is very prevalent in your neighborhood you have every reason to go there first. But in your mind you try and rationalize this saying it's the wind, a mouse, the cat or maybe a book fell in the other room. You don't want to admit the chilling possibility of what could be the truth. You don't want to go there. From a Christian perspective every design has a designer. We may not want to go there first. We may want to rationalize this and come up with a myriad of other possibilities.

Then there is the anthropological argument which says that the conscience and moral nature of man demands a self-conscious and moral Maker. This built-in barometer supplies no information, and the information on which it passes judgment may be incorrect. But conscience tells us we ought to do what is right regarding the information we have.

We know the conscience may be weak, defiled, good, seared, strong or pure but it is never absent. Where did the conscience come from? The only accurate explanation is that the great Moral Being who created us all planted the moral sense in us. No other explanation will do.

I'm sure there are other arguments for the existence of God but I especially love the scriptural argument for God. Well maybe I should say lack thereof. The Bible simply assumes the existence of God. There are no arguments for the existence of God biblically speaking. God assumes all mankind will know or does know in His existence. We have to be taught to be an atheist. It doesn't come naturally.

"For the Scripture then, the existence of God is both a historical truth (God acted into history), and an existential truth (God reveals himself to every soul). His existence is both objectively and subjectively evident. It is necessary logically because our assumption of order, design, and rationally rests upon it. It is necessary morally because there is no explanation for the shape of morality apart from it. It is necessary personally because the exhaustion of all material possibilities still cannot give satisfaction to the heart. The deepest proof for God's existence apart from history is just life itself. God has created man in his image, and man cannot elude the implications of this fact. Everywhere His identity pursues him. "

Clark Pinnock "Set Forth Your Case"

38,185 views 96 replies
Reply #1 Top
My personal favorite:



Frisbeetarianism:


n.

A belief that when you die your spirit floats up and gets stuck on the roof.

Because Joel was a frisbeetarian, he had no wonders about what had happened to his friend when he died, he knew for a fact that his soul was stuck on a roof.

Reply #2 Top
1. Atheistic- Atheism says that everything comes from nothing. There is no God. There is no purpose in life. Might makes right as Hitler believed. There is no absolute rule as there is no God to dictate such rules.


Or, if you like facts:

a·the·ism
–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.


There are about 4 other definitions on dictionary.com for atheism, and not one of them mention 'everything from nothing,' 'no purpose in life,' or 'might making right.'

Reply #3 Top
Or, if you like facts:


a·the·ism–noun1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.


exactly Ock....same thing. If you don't beieve in God....you are NOT going to believe in creation by a God now are you? You're playing the semantics game again.

So if an Atheist DOESN'T believe in God, where does that leave them in their answer to the two questions presented.?

Frisbeetarianism:


hmmmm that's a new one!! You must be a frisbee player?



Reply #4 Top
You're playing the semantics game again.


All I'm really trying to do is correct an incorrect statement. You made the statement, and it's false.

Might makes right as Hitler believed.


Wrong - no more atheists think this than any other kind of people.

While the atheist says there is definitely no God...


Wrong - atheists don't believe there is one. They don't definitely say there isn't. (Some probably do, but not all) Regardless, there is a difference between not believing something and believing something is not. (/broken record playing for a wall)

It would be an interesting blog, but your bias shows too much, and if I can say this without you thinking I'm just trying to call you names, it makes you look silly. So I attempted to be kind the first go round and just define, very simply, what atheism is. I was hoping you'd be humble and say "Oops, my bad. Thanks for catching that."

Atheists can dream, too.

Reply #5 Top
It's been said that the two greatest questions of life are "where did life come from?" and "what is the purpose of this life?"


I always thought they were "what's for dinner?" and "who's picking up the check?"
Reply #6 Top
Wrong - atheists don't believe there is one. They don't definitely say there isn't. (Some probably do, but not all)


of course they do. Even by your own definition they do. An Atheist says there is no supreme being. It's right there Ock.

Regardless, there is a difference between not believing something and believing something is not. (/broken record playing for a wall)


again, Semantics. Every atheist I have ever known...and I've known lots...say there is NO God. We are simply here due to the evolutionary theory. Every single one I've met. All of them. Afterall it's convenient.....hmmmm didn't you mention that one?


It would be an interesting blog, but your bias shows too much, and if I can say this without you thinking I'm just trying to call you names, it makes you look silly.


While I admit I do have bias, there was no bias in my definitions of the six viewponts. And as far as me being silly, com'on Ock that's a double sided argument. I too think you're silly of trying to be nit-picky over these semantics instead of giving me something deep thinking to discuss here.

Reply #7 Top
I always thought they were "what's for dinner?" and "who's picking up the check?"


hahahahaha well those are important questions of life also Mason.


hmmmmm what IS for dinner anyhow?
Reply #8 Top
While I admit I do have bias, there was no bias in my definitions of the six viewponts.


I hate to break it to you, but in so far as the atheist definition goes, there certainly was. Instead of a factual definition you gave opinions and extrapolations. Ock gave the correct definition of the word, what you gave are extremely biased opinions of what atheistic belief implies. Big difference.
Reply #9 Top
Well I didn't go for dictionary terms...maybe I should have, but I chose instead to go for layman's terms so to speak for all six viewpoints. Even monotheism. So there was no uncurrent attack against atheism. From a Christian POV all these terms would all be considered (with the exception of the last) as against historic Christianity. So in the long run from that viewpoint they would all be on the "other side" of the Creation God.




Reply #10 Top
That may have been what you were aiming for but your "definition" of atheism doesn't even come close to anything but a biased set of opinions and extrapolation. If you had left it at "There is no God" you would have been ok. Face it, you seriously missed the mark on that one. Ock is right here whether you want to admit it or not.
Reply #11 Top
Well you're certainly welcomed to your opinion Mason. That's ok. But remember I'm coming from the point of the two questions that started this whole discussion. When you ask an atheist where did life come from...what is he going to give as an example? When you ask them what is the purpose of life what will be their reply?

Besides....I NEVER said definition. I said these are the six viewpoints for these two questions. I never meant to give technicale definitions. Had I said that, then you'd have a point. I didn't.

Reply #12 Top
6. Monotheism- Mono meaning one is a belief in one God. In this position God did create life and is always interestsed in it epecially in his creation of man.

Might makes right as God will have caused those who are blessed to have the might and they always be doing right as they are following God.
Reply #13 Top
1. Atheistic- Atheism says that everything comes from nothing. There is no God. There is no purpose in life. Might makes right as Hitler believed. There is no absolute rule as there is no God to dictate such rules.


Atheists often have a very strong sense of purpose. This (so far as they believe) is their only existence; wasting even a moment is senseless. If anything you could say a Christian would lack purpose, because once they've done enough to get to heaven nothing else on earth is of any meaning.

An atheist is likely to consider everything in their lives to be of some meaning, if only because it is an expression of their existence.

An atheist could probably express this better than me.

2. Agnostic- While the atheist says there is definitely no God and the Christian says there IS a God, the agnostic says we can't know and won't know if there is a god. Agnosticism was first coined by Aldous Huxley in 1869. He was called Darwin's Bulldog.


This isn't quite true, although you're right in that the word was coined by Huxley (not the most famous member of his illustrious clan).

Agnostics have been around as long as religion has been. They're the ones who go through the motions just in case.

4. Polytheism- Poly meaning many and theism meaning God. This belief is in "many gods." Pagans did and still do believe in the many gods of nature. There was the sky god, the water god, the fire god, the earth god and so on.


In a way. Polytheists don't necessarily believe in nature god alone. Many polytheistic faiths have quite complicated god relationships. Certain branches of Christianity, for example, believe in the trinity, which is roughly analogous to some Hindu interpretations of the divine as expressed through Shiva, Kali, Vishnu and the rest. The idea of aspects is a polytheistic belief, although many would deny it utterly.
Other polytheistic beliefs, just as those of the Norse and the Greeks, have a strict hierarchy of gods which isn't dissimilar to angelic pantheons in mediaeval christianity and very early Judaism.

We know the conscience may be weak, defiled, good, seared, strong or pure but it is never absent. Where did the conscience come from? The only accurate explanation is that the great Moral Being who created us all planted the moral sense in us. No other explanation will do.


That's a bit dogmatic. Surely the only explanation that will 'do' is the right one. If we believe the Jewish/Christian/Islamic tradition then it's because humanity chose it for itself - we ate the apple that cursed us with the knowledge of good and evil - we ate the apple that gave us a conscience. So it was we who enlightened ourselves.

Of course, you can reject that as you wish, but I really think you should be more enlightened to the possibilities, particularly those that are part of the faith you claim to profess.
Reply #14 Top
But remember I'm coming from the point of the two questions that started this whole discussion. When you ask an atheist where did life come from...what is he going to give as an example? When you ask them what is the purpose of life what will be their reply?


Ok, even given that, the last two sentences regarding the atheist have nothing at all to do with the two questions posed.
Reply #15 Top

1. Atheistic- Atheism says that everything comes from nothing. There is no God. There is no purpose in life. Might makes right as Hitler believed. There is no absolute rule as there is no God to dictate such rules.

I agree that your bias is shown here.  Atheist believe that there is no God.  The "purpose" of life is life itself- not serving "God".  There is not a universal (or even common) belief among atheist that "everything comes from nothing".  They simply believe there is no God.

I also like the Hitler reference.  It always makes me chuckle when Christians claim Hitler was an atheist.  He wasn't an atheist, he was a CHRISTIAN (shock..horror...OMG!   Can't be!)  He was raised Catholic.  Have you read Mein Kampf?  Hitler talks a lot about faith and religion and the Catholic church.  He even said: "This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief."  Why would an Atheist put that in writing?  He also wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." Of course, he was also insane, and you can find quotes where he dismisses God (usually in speeches), but his attack on the Jews specifically was not an act of Atheism.

Reply #16 Top
Atheists often have a very strong sense of purpose. This (so far as they believe) is their only existence; wasting even a moment is senseless. If anything you could say a Christian would lack purpose, because once they've done enough to get to heaven nothing else on earth is of any meaning.


I agree somewhat. I think it probably depends on what atheist you're talking with. Some have a stong sense of moral duty for their fellow man while they walk this earth and others throw their hands up and do whatever manner of evil they can think of because they also believe if this is all there is, I'm taking advantage of it today.

Agnostics have been around as long as religion has been. They're the ones who go through the motions just in case.


Yes, I'm just saying that Huxley was the first to give this a name (that I'm aware of). I've actually hear all the time while one can't really claim to be an atheist (how can one know for sure unless he knows all) he'd be more truthful in claiming agnosticism. While one can't for sure say there is no God, they can in their right mind say "I don't believe there is a God."

That's a bit dogmatic.


It might be but it's the only one that seems to make sense. I've heard that human emotions are hard to explain from any other belief system. Where do they come from? How did we receive our conscience? We all know deep down whether we chose to follow or not that murder is wrong. We don't need to be told this.

Ok, even given that, the last two sentences regarding the atheist have nothing at all to do with the two questions posed.


ok I can see that especially on the part about Hitle. But even the last sentence stating there is no God can answer the question about purpose. Their purpose without God in the picture could very well be they are free to do what they wish.

There is not a universal (or even common) belief among atheist that "everything comes from nothing". They simply believe there is no God.


Ok, then how did this world come to be from an Atheistic viewpoint in your opinion? You're saying...it wasn't God and it wasn't by the theory of evolution? So what is left?

As far as Hitler being a Catholic. Yes, I know his upbringing was Catholic. I've read his bio. You can most certainly find alot where Hitler dismisses God by both word and most certainly by deed. He was in NO WAY a Christian tho. Not by a long shot. If I remember right Hitler's religion ended in childhood never to return to it. Hitler was a physical embodiement of Satan....one of many throughout History. Yes, Satan and the demons believe in God. It doesn't make them Christians. They know this, yet it doesn't stop them from wanting to usurp God's position. If they could, they would dearly love to knock God right off his throne.

but his attack on the Jews specifically was not an act of Atheism.


Well it certainly wasn't Christian.

Reply #17 Top

 

Ok, then how did this world come to be from an Atheistic viewpoint in your opinion? You're saying...it wasn't God and it wasn't by the theory of evolution? So what is left?

Is everything always so black and white in your mind?  What happened to "thinking outside the box" as you have told others?  An Atheist believes that there is no God.  An Atheist doesn't necessarily have an opinion on how life started.  Some believe in the big bang theory, some believe we were created from something that no longer exists, etc.  The only thing they have in common is that they don't believe in God.

For all intents and purposes, Agnostics are Atheists.  They don't believe in God.  They don't say for sure either way- they are on the fence.  But, if you don't believe in God, you are an Atheist.

Hitler was a physical embodiement of Satan....one of many throughout History. Yes, Satan and the demons believe in God. It doesn't make them Christians. They know this, yet it doesn't stop them from wanting to usurp God's position. If they could, they would dearly love to knock God right off his throne.

How does that make him an Atheist as you describe?  There is more proof of him being Christian than there is Atheist.  Have Christians never killed others due to their religious beliefs?  To say that there isn't the possibility that he was purging the Jews as a way of strengthen Christianity would be very near sighted.  In the bible, is there no reference of people being killed because they were not believers?

Reply #18 Top
For all intents and purposes, Agnostics are Atheists. They don't believe in God. They don't say for sure either way- they are on the fence. But, if you don't believe in God, you are an Atheist.


now I would say it's the other way around. I agree for all intents and purposes they really belong in the same camp. But while it's much feasible to say "I don't believe in God" than it is to be dogmatic in saying "There definitely isn't a God."

I mean how can one out and out say there isn't a God? I mean don't you have to have the answer to everything to make such a statement? Who knows the answer to every single math problem forget about all the questions of life? So doesn't it make more sense to say you don't BELIEVE there is a God?

That's why I say there really cannot be a true atheist even tho that is a popular description of a non believer.

There is more proof of him being Christian than there is Atheist.


Really? So you are saying that Christ advocated his behavior? That his behavior falls more in line with Christ's teaching than the teaching of Satan? I'm not seeing it.

To say that there isn't the possibility that he was purging the Jews as a way of strengthen Christianity would be very near sighted.


He was killing more than just Jews. He killed millions of others as well. Check your history. The Jews just got the lion share of attention. THe best we can say is Hitler was a madman but certainly he wasn't following the mandates of Christianity.

In the bible, is there no reference of people being killed because they were not believers?


No, not really. Would you like to give me some examples? The killing you speak of had nothing to do with them being non-believers. Christ prayed for them that put him on the cross. We read in Romans that Christ died for the sinners and unbelievers. He died so that we might believe him.

Reply #19 Top
In the bible, is there no reference of people being killed because they were not believers?


No, not really. Would you like to give me some examples? The killing you speak of had nothing to do with them being non-believers.


You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

~Zoo
Reply #20 Top
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13


Well. Guess I better get started. Lots of killing to do.
Reply #21 Top
Usually when someone proclaims them self a"Christian" and then proceeds to do all manner of "un-Christian" things, the remaining "good" Christians then claim that even though that first guy "claimed" to be a Christian, he really wasn't. I've seen KFC do this a couple or few times.

A question that then arises in my mind is "how many un-Christian" things does a Christian have to do before it is ok for the remaining "good" ones to say that person "isn't really" a Christian? And maybe it isn't a number of things, but a level of severity? Take lying, for example. Is lying enough to be collectively considered "not really" a Christian, or do you have to do something more severe - like orchestrate the murder of lots of people? And how does one qualify to be a judge of such things in the Christian universe?

Curious, because my understanding was that judgment of such things (in a Christian perspective) was reserved for god, and the above gray area I painted would be a good reason why. Perhaps it refers just to the final judgment when everyone gets their keys. (i.e. here's your key to your room in hell, and here's YOUR key to your room in Heaven.)

Not judging in the former sense troubled me when I was a Christian. It seemed clear that Joe the Serial Killer should be damned. Do I really need god to tell me that? I don't have enough info to make that judgment? I mean, certainly I didn't have the power to do the actual damning, but to just judge it? Then it occurred to me. The lord works in mysterious ways. Perhaps Joe the Serial Killer was doing exactly what God wanted him to. Maybe some other person needed to benefit from the self searching one undergoes after a tragedy. And who was I to say? If I thought myself grand enough to judge someone else, was I not then acting is if I, myself, were god?

You be the judge.
Reply #22 Top
I've seen KFC do this a couple or few times.


Guilty as charged. Yes. This is true. Does it make sense or not?

A question that then arises in my mind is "how many un-Christian" things does a Christian have to do before it is ok for the remaining "good" ones to say that person "isn't really" a Christian?


So the question is...can a Christian murder and still be a Christian even tho his founder (CHrist) mandated love and peace with no killing?

Yes, but it's not going to be a common occurrance. In other words we are known by our fruit. A good tree bears good fruit right? Fruit are the deeds that come from our belief. If we believe and trust Christ then we should bear good fruit not bad fruit.

Christians can and do sin. The difference between a Christian who sins and one who is not a Christian is the habitual nature of it. A Christian committing sins against God is in conflict over such things. As they grow deeper and stronger in their faith, they eventually leave that lifestyle totally behind. That's why you see those that have come to Christ find going out to the bars or the casinos as not so enjoyable anymore. Sometimes it happens gradually and other times it happens instantly. We are all at diff walks.

Curious, because my understanding was that judgment of such things (in a Christian perspective) was reserved for god


Well it is. We are not to judge the heart. Only God can do that. The only person I can totally honestly believe is a born again Christian is myself. But he did say you can judge the fruit. He said...."by their fruits you can know them." It's the fruit we're judging. God will take care of the rest.

Perhaps it refers just to the final judgment when everyone gets their keys. (i.e. here's your key to your room in hell, and here's YOUR key to your room in Heaven.)


Only Christ holds the keys (REV 1). Not us. Like I just said on your blog OCk, coming to trust in Christ is very ego-shattering.

It's interesting how the non-Christians love the verse "thou shalt not judge" It has become their mantra. When in fact it's grossly taken out of context. You'll find this verse in Matt 7:1. You may want to look at the passage in context. There's more than meets the eye (literally) here.





Reply #23 Top
Well. Guess I better get started. Lots of killing to do.


Yep, don't forget your cool killin' hat. Everyone has to have a cool hat when they're out killin'.

~Zoo
Reply #24 Top
Not judging in the former sense troubled me when I was a Christian. It seemed clear that Joe the Serial Killer should be damned. Do I really need god to tell me that? I don't have enough info to make that judgment? I mean, certainly I didn't have the power to do the actual damning, but to just judge it? Then it occurred to me. The lord works in mysterious ways. Perhaps Joe the Serial Killer was doing exactly what God wanted him to. Maybe some other person needed to benefit from the self searching one undergoes after a tragedy. And who was I to say? If I thought myself grand enough to judge someone else, was I not then acting is if I, myself, were god?


Joe the Serial Killer is not doing what God wanted him to. Despite that, God will still take whatever comes and make the best out of it for everyone He can.

Regardless, that does not mean anything as to Joe the Serial Killer's eternal salvation. That comes from one place, and can even forgive murder. So that I cannot speak to.
Reply #25 Top
Usually when someone proclaims them self a"Christian" and then proceeds to do all manner of "un-Christian" things, the remaining "good" Christians then claim that even though that first guy "claimed" to be a Christian, he really wasn't.


Welcome to the No True Scotsman fallacy. :)

~Zoo