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President George W. Scrooge

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President George W. Scrooge

from JoeUser Forums


For the second time Bush vetoed the bill that would provide millions of children health care. The compromise bill changed the two major objections Bush had to the first bill he vetoed. It lowered the income levels and eliminated illegals from coverage.

For anyone to say Bush is a Compassionate Conservative is a LIE! Bush is an evil man who acts in a way that shows he is a hypocrite when he claims to be a Christian! What a disgrace to our great country to have a leader the likes of George W. Bush. I hope his father is proud of little George! This is what comes from a child that is handed everything and produced almost nothing of value by his own efforts!
politics
39,907 views 149 replies
Reply #76 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: danielostPosted: Monday, December 17, 2007do you know what is wrong with america.it is the fact that the WORKING poor in this country do not think of themselves as poor.thus since they don't think that way they don't act that way.oh wait did i say what was wrong. i meant what is right.


The middle class knows how they are doing. They know if they are having more trouble paying their bills this year compared with last year. They know every time they try and pay for gas, Oil, insurance, health care or food. Bush has been telling all of us how great the economy is under his policies. Today he finally admitted things are not good, the former fed chairman is worried and has not said we need direct help from the tax payers to people in danger of losing their most important asset-- their homes. He has said we are in real danger of a serious economic downturn. To think after all the tax cuts and the deficit financing of the Bush administration, that this country could be near a recession is sobering. The GOP is scared to death of a recession because it will be the Bush/GOP recession!
Reply #77 from JoeUser Forums Top
Watch which ever GOP candidate gets the nomination distance themselves from Bush and his policies. Anyone who looks as if they support Bush and his policies is in real trouble! That will be evem more true in the general Election.
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Reply #78 from JoeUser Forums Top
Distancing from the lame duck incumbent is an American political tradition. This is hardly a revelation.
Reply #79 from JoeUser Forums Top
The GOP is scared to death of a recession because it will be the Bush/GOP recession!
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actually the dems are hoping for one.
Reply #80 from JoeUser Forums Top

Proving my point once again that you are nothing but a pathetic Pavlovian mouthpiece with the intelligence of the common acorn.
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Please watch the personal attacks Daiwa. You may not like Gene's opinions but there's no reason to attack him like that.

Reply #81 from JoeUser Forums Top

Watch which ever GOP candidate gets the nomination distance themselves from Bush and his policies. Anyone who looks as if they support Bush and his policies is in real trouble! That will be evem more true in the general Election.
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I doubt any GOP nominee will distance himself from tax cuts which is, domestically, the main Bush policy to speak of.

Tax cuts always help the economy because private citizens are more efficient at producing wealth than the government is.

Reply #82 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: DaiwaPosted: Monday, December 17, 2007Distancing from the lame duck incumbent is an American political tradition. This is hardly a revelation.


Given how unpopular Bush and his policies are is the BEST reason to distance themselves from his policies. Problem is that they are running on the Bush Iraq, Tax, Social Security and trade policies.

Tax cuts always help the economy because private citizens are more efficient at producing wealth than the government is.


Tax cuts that stimulate spending (to middle income tax payers) do help the economy. However the Bush and Reagan tax cuts to the wealthy just created a Deficit that has increased the budget because of the interest on the Debt! The Comptroller General has documented that and has said to continue the Bush Tax Cuts will further increase the debt. That was also the conclusion of the Brookings Institute study on the Bush Tax Cuts!
Reply #83 from JoeUser Forums Top
question oh mighty knowing gene.


if bushs tax cuts are so bad and clintons policies were so good.


then why in the last gop debate were they talking about cutting taxes.


and gore didn't even mention the economy when he ran. at least so far as i remember.
Reply #84 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: danielostPosted: Monday, December 17, 2007question oh mighty knowing gene.if bushs tax cuts are so bad and clintons policies were so good.then why in the last gop debate were they talking about cutting taxes.


The Democrats are talking about cutting taxes for Middle Income Americans and paying for those cuts by ending the cuts for the wealthy. The wealthy had their turn now it is time for the average person to benefit.
Reply #85 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" -- also from the Bible.

I'm assuming that Jesus wasn't saying the poor and middle class didn't HAVE to pay!
Reply #86 from JoeUser Forums Top
The Democrats are talking about cutting taxes for Middle Income Americans and paying for those cuts by ending the cuts for the wealthy
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in reality paying for those taxes with higher prices on goods.
Reply #87 from JoeUser Forums Top
The Democrats are talking about cutting taxes for Middle Income Americans and paying for those cuts by ending the cuts for the wealthy. The wealthy had their turn now it is time for the average person to benefit.
End of quote


Democrats aren't going to pay for their "tax cuts" and social programs with just tax increaes to a small class of Americans gene. 

It will affect everyone, not just the class warfare you seem to advocate.
Reply #88 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Gideon MacLeishPosted: Tuesday, December 18, 2007"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" -- also from the Bible.I'm assuming that Jesus wasn't saying the poor and middle class didn't HAVE to pay!


The issue is very simple-The vast majority of the dollars from the Bush Tax Cuts flow to the top 10%. In 2005 70% went to the top 10% and since all the new cuts go to the wealthy, that % will increase. The biggest cut that will flow to the TOP1% is the Federal Estate tax that will end in 2010. I have seen one estimate that says after the Estate Tax ends that 90% of the total Bush Tax Cuts will go to the top 10%. Thus, that is where that money went and that is where the added tax revenues should come from.

Second, tax increases to the top 10% will not impact spending as would a tax increase to the middle income tax payer. Thus there are sound reasons why the top 10% should pay the higher taxes.
Reply #89 from JoeUser Forums Top
It will affect everyone, not just the class warfare you seem to advocate.




The shift in wealth from the middle income to the wealthy that is the result of the Bush Tax Cuts has done MORE to fuel Class warfare then anything!
Reply #90 from JoeUser Forums Top
The shift in wealth from the middle income to the wealthy that is the result of the Bush Tax Cuts has done MORE to fuel Class warfare then anything!
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Wealth wasn't taken away from the "middle class", people just have to pay less taxes which included people in the middle income range. 

If you are poor, it's for the most part your own fault.  The government doesn't provide your "wealth" or income.  Do you understand what personal responsibility is?

As I have said before, raising taxes on a select few will not help anyone else.



Second, tax increases to the top 10% will not impact spending as would a tax increase to the middle income tax payer.
End of quote


This how you twist your way out of an debate.  Their "spending" won't be impacted, but their investment in business and employees will as has been stated to you several times by people who run businesses.  Your problem is you think all rich people are greedy and don't do anything with their money. 




Reply #91 from JoeUser Forums Top
have you ever thought that some of those new wealthy people were middle class or even lower class.
Reply #92 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Island DogPosted: Tuesday, December 18, 2007
The shift in wealth from the middle income to the wealthy that is the result of the Bush Tax Cuts has done MORE to fuel Class warfare then anything!
Wealth wasn't taken away from the "middle class", people just have to pay less taxes which included people in the middle income range.


Yes wealth is being shifted by taxes, higher energy costs and the loss of manufacturing and high Tec jobs that are going to other countries. The Bush policies are in part responsible for these changes.

This how you twist your way out of an debate. Their "spending" won't be impacted, but their investment in business and employees will as has been stated to you several times by people who run businesses. Your problem is you think all rich people are greedy and don't do anything with their money.


That is the supply side economics that did not work in the 1980'2 or during the past 7 years. Voodoo economics Bush 41 called it and the fact remains that tax cuts to the middle income workers is far more effective in stimulating economic growth then tax cuts to the wealthy!
Reply #93 from JoeUser Forums Top

Tax cuts that stimulate spending (to middle income tax payers) do help the economy. However the Bush and Reagan tax cuts to the wealthy just created a Deficit that has increased the budget because of the interest on the Debt! The Comptroller General has documented that and has said to continue the Bush Tax Cuts will further increase the debt. That was also the conclusion of the Brookings Institute study on the Bush Tax Cuts!
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The Brookings Institute is a left-wing think tank.

Moreover, you are doing a bait and switch with your argument. We can argue all day long whether tax cuts for the wealthy create deficits or not. My answer to that is "it depends" on how much of a tax cut it is and under what circumstances.

But your issue had to do with helping the economy. Tax cuts, especially for the wealthy, help the economy. That's not a matter of opinion. That is self-evident fact.

 

Reply #94 from JoeUser Forums Top

Yes wealth is being shifted by taxes, higher energy costs and the loss of manufacturing and high Tec jobs that are going to other countries. The Bush policies are in part responsible for these changes.
End of quote

Higher taxes on the wealthy will worsen this.

Here's what happens:

Taxes, for the wealthiest Americans, are simply another form of expense that they deal with. If you increase their expenses, you increase the incentive to find more profitable ways to keep doing what they're doing. One way to do that is to move operations overseas.

Bush's policies certainly haven't helped or hurt with regards to tech jobs moving overseas. He didn't do anything to help an already bad situation but he also didn't do anything to hurt.

But if you raise taxes, you will unquestionably cause more outsourcing.

Reply #95 from JoeUser Forums Top
But your issue had to do with helping the economy. Tax cuts, especially for the wealthy, help the economy. That's not a matter of opinion. That is self-evident fact.


Tax cuts to middle income taxpayers are far more effective to stimulate the economy then to the wealthy. With all the tax cuts to the wealthy we have now, the economy should be BOOMING! IT IS NOT!!!!!
Reply #96 from JoeUser Forums Top
flow to
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As in "came from" in the first place.
Reply #97 from JoeUser Forums Top
the economy should be BOOMING! IT IS NOT!!!!!
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Economies can't "boom" all the time. Basic economics. And the government has imperfect means to influence the economy in the short run. The economy depends on far more than government policy, unless of course you live in a socialist country where the economy is 100% dependent on the government. That seems to have worked out well where it's been tried, don't ya think?
Reply #98 from JoeUser Forums Top

Tax cuts to middle income taxpayers are far more effective to stimulate the economy then to the wealthy. With all the tax cuts to the wealthy we have now, the economy should be BOOMING! IT IS NOT!!!!!
End of quote

Simply stating something to be a truth doesn't make it a truth.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone support the argument that middle class tax cuts would have much of an effect.  The middle class doesn't pay enough in taxes to make a cut do much.

The top 25% (i.e. "upper class") pay 85% of the taxes. The remaining 75% pay the last 15%.  So I'm not sure exactly on what basis you think that a middle class tax cut would do this stimulating.

Moreover, the middle class would simply consume such a tax cut by purchasing commodities. While that's nice for retailers and manufacturers (increasingly foreign as you regularly point out) it doesn't have much long-term impact. Once the money has been consumed, it's gone.

The upper class, by contrast, generally makes their money by producing things (making stuff, moving stuff, growing stuff). Tax cuts provide more capital for them to invest in what they are doing which creates jobs, higher profits and in the long term more taxes.

Reply #99 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: DraginolPosted: Tuesday, December 18, 2007
Tax cuts to middle income taxpayers are far more effective to stimulate the economy then to the wealthy. With all the tax cuts to the wealthy we have now, the economy should be BOOMING! IT IS NOT!!!!!
Simply stating something to be a truth doesn't make it a truth.I don't think I've ever heard anyone support the argument that middle class tax cuts would have much of an effect. The middle class doesn't pay enough in taxes to make a cut do much.


That is not true. Middle income families pay $5-10,000 per year in federal Income taxes. When this group receives a tax cut, they spend almost all of it and the economy grows because of that added spending. When the very wealthy receive a tax cut very little is spent and the increase demand does not develop to the same extent as when middle income taxpayers get the tax cuts. These are not opinions but established fact. It is true the middle income taxpayers did not receive the big bucks from Bush the big cuts went to the upper income tax payers who do not spent most of that added money.

In 2006, the average tax cuts for the second 20% was $400. The middle 20% was $687. The top 1% in 2006 received $51,745 on the average.

The proof that tax cuts to the wealthy does not work can be scene from what took place in the 1980’s and again since 2001. Big Tax Cuts to the wealthy increased spending produced huge deficits!

Source: Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy Tax Model, March 2007.
Reply #100 from JoeUser Forums Top
Don't ya just love how gene knows how everyone spends their money?