and will increase food costs.

i know we are going to use feed corn.


but that means less feed corn for cows and other livestock.


meaning the feed for these animals will go up meaning the price of hamburger will go up. how many joes on here eat hamburger instead of steak because of the price.

and if you gave them the vehicles they couldn't afford the insurance and maintenance.

How does mandating more use of Ethonol (which costs more to produce, gets much worse mileage per gallon, and causes more wear and tear to engines) "help" our energy problems?

Just HOW will the poor be worse off? They are already suffering from a lack of a policy that would move us to lower prices. 1/2 the oil is used in cars.

My God Col, you are so stupid you can't see past your own nose. How can someone be as moronic as you? What's even scarier is that there are a whole bunch just like you in Congress. Here, I will give you a "so easy a 5 year old can understand it" response to your stupid question.

The increased mileage is essential.

This increase will only affect new vehicles, vehicles that will be even more expensive than they are now since they will be marketed as more gas efficient vehicles. So anyone buying a new car will get screwed with higher prices at the dealer, especially the dumb ones who don't know who to haggle prices. Then theres the poor people who buy used cars. These gas efficient cars will never reach their hands till maybe 5 to 10 years later so the true impact of what this increase in mileage can do will not even start till about 5 to 10 years later. Not to mention these used cars will still be expensive as well. And you claim to care about poor people? What are you gonna do, give them incentives to afford these used cars as well? You seem to think that throwing someone elses money at the problem is the solution to every problem.

The renewable fuels increase supplies we make in the U.S. That would both lower prices and increases supply and reduce our purchases of foreign oil.

Col, how can you lower something when it will take money to make these changes and guess who's gonna get stuck with the bill for these upgrades? In the long run it may lower prices but not before they charge people up the ying yang for it first.

The Rollback of tax credits to oil companies will be invested in new energy sources which again increases SUPPLY and will lower prices and reduce our purchase of foreign oil.

Again, it will not lower prices because they will raise prices to make up for the taxes they will have to pay. You seem to ignore the fact that it is the consumer that pays the price for any taxes added to any company. As usual you ignore the burden placed on the average citizen, especially those you claim to defend.

More efficient appliances again reduces energy Demand and thus cost.

For who? Who the hell is gonna pay extra for a machine that wasted less electricity? Just like every other product people don't pay more for something that is more efficient cause they are still gonna pay for the waste in the price. Again, you ignore the consumer.

Hybrid cars along with alternate energy production are what we need long term.

Yes, because they are so affordable. I guess your idea is to leave every person who normally buys a used car carless cause you want hybrids for everyone. Man, you can't half past a stupid idea can you. You talk about long term solutions but never thing of the long terms effects of these solutions.

For once in your life think of solutions that will benefit everyone not benefit some while hurting others. Jesus Christ man, get a clue. How the hell do you run a business while being this delusional?

Reply By: Island DogPosted: Friday, December 07, 2007 THERE IS NO VALID reason to stop this bill from becoming law. Every person and company will continue to pay higher energy costs if we do not act. Of course there is, it's already been shown to you. Maybe you should actually reading the bill instead of getting your talking points from left wing kook websites. This is nothing but another useless post trying to blame the GOP on energy prices. There is nothing in this bill that will lower gas prices. Will you finally admit you are a hack for the democrats?

The provisions in this bill will increase domestic energy production and cut our use with higher mileage and more efficient appliances. That is what needs to be done. It will not instantly lower gas prices but nothing will do that. It does address the issues of becoming more independent for the energy we use. There may be other steps but this bill is a solid change that will help our country!

Yes, because they are so affordable. I guess your idea is to leave every person who normally buys a used car carless cause you want hybrids for everyone. Man, you can't half past a stupid idea can you. You talk about long term solutions but never thing of the long terms effects of these solutions.

They will become more affordable with time just like the color TV and Computers.

Reply By: danielostPosted: Friday, December 07, 2007 Most poor families can't afford to buy brand new vehicles. and if you gave them the vehicles they couldn't afford the insurance and maintenance.

They also can not afford to pay the higher energy costs because we have done NOTHING to solve the problem! The views or should I say excuses on posted are the most short sighted I have scene and the reason we are in the situation we are in today!

Once again gene, why do you bother posting then?  Your opinoins are just as useless and based on democrat talking points points.  What's hilarious is you think the problems just started recently in regards to energy?  We had a democrat for President for 8 years, and I don't believe much got accomplished there either.   You really think his wife will handle it?

I see you fail to actually acknowledge the arguements made against your post and just result to the usual insults and whining. 

Island Dog, you forget, Gene doesn't recognize any history before Bush took office.

Reply By: Island DogPosted: Friday, December 07, 2007 The views or should I say excuses on posted are the most short sighted I have scene and the reason we are in the situation we are in today! Once again gene, why do you bother posting then? Your opinoins are just as useless and based on democrat talking points points. What's hilarious is you think the problems just started recently in regards to energy? We had a democrat for President for 8 years, and I don't believe much got accomplished there either. You really think his wife will handle it?

The energy problem is recognized by everyone including Bush and all the candidates running for President. Stick your head up your BUTT and make believe we have no problem with foreign oil. Tell yourself every time you buy gas or oil for your home that we have no energy problem!

Gene, not one part of this joke of legislation reduces our dependence on foriegn oil. Until we start using DOMESTIC OIL more than foreign oil, we will continue to be dependent.

Reply | | DeleteReply By: ParaTed2kPosted: Friday, December 07, 2007Island Dog, you forget, Gene doesn't recognize any history before Bush took office.

I have acknowledged that none of the other Presidents from Carter thru GWB have done anything. The point now is that the Democrats are taking specific actions to begin to solve the problem and Bush and the GOP are preventing the new energy policy from becoming reality! Bush tells us how big a problem our dependence on foreign oil is and then stands in the door with the GOP members in the Senate to move forward. We need to replace the President with a Democrat and enough members of the Senate to end the ability of the GOP to prevent solutions to the issues facing our country. Bush says Congress is not acting—Everything they do he and the GOP stops the bills from becoming law. It is Bush and the GOP in Congress that are the problem!

They will become more affordable with time just like the color TV and Computers.

That is the stupidest reply I have ever heard. Computers are cheaper because people can now build their own at a fraction of the cost than buying built one from places like Dell and HP. Also because computer technology changes every 10 or 12 months what was great a few months ago is not second rate but still good and therefor cheaper because they need to get rid of the old stuff for the new stuff which is expensive so in reality computers are not cheaper, you are just paying for cheaper parts that are outdated. But you wouldn't know that cause you don't know how to use a computer to its fullest potentiol. You probably use it to look at email, browse porn sites, play solitaire and maybe a few excel sheets.

And TV's are not that much cheaper my friend, only because we have plasma, LCD and HD Tvs that you can find old, outdated Tvs cheaper. But whats the point, by 2009 you won't be able to use most of them without some kind of adapter.

This goes to show just how ignorant you are of real life. Cars don't go down in price. They get more and more expensive with every new technology invented for it. What an idiot, a cheap hybrid. That's like saying Bush is the smartest man in the world. You definitely live in another world cause you don't even see the one you claim to live in.

ColGene, the democrats aren't taking action, you are merely playing cheerleader to their blatant INACTION.

how many books did you say you wrote.


i have a spelling problem but i know the difference between seen and scene.

compared to gene.

Reply | | DeleteReply By: ParaTed2kPosted: Friday, December 07, 2007ColGene, the democrats aren't taking action, you are merely playing cheerleader to their blatant INACTION.

You are full of BS. The passed the bill in the House and the GOP in the Senate threaten to prevent the Bill from being enacted into law and begin doing something about our dependence on foreign oil. Bush who tells us we have a problem with dependence on foreign oil says he will Veto the bill. It is the GOP and Bush who are PREVENTING action. It is the same thing with the S-CHIP, and all the appropriations Bills. Bush threatens a Veto and the GOP support the idiot President we have in office.

this would be the same democrats that blocked drilling in alaska and off shore.

hehehehe!

I don't think he's a-gonna address that one, danielost.

He will (rightly) veto the stupid "bill" because it doesn't do crap about the problem. It does NOTHING for 17 years, which means it wil be 30 years before most Americans will even be affected by it.

If Congress wants to decrease our dependence on foreign oil, then we should be using DOMESTIC oil while encourage the production of viable alternatives. Sorry, but wind and solar aren't viable alteratives to oil. There is NO chance of them producing enough to ever keep up.

On the other hand, your Dummycrap Congressional leaders completely ignore Geothermal power, which could be harnessed in a matter of a couple of years. The technology is already there, it just needs to be funded.

Go back to sucking on your binky and leave inteligent thought to those with a brain.

Reply By: danielostPosted: Friday, December 07, 2007 the democrats aren't taking action, you are merely playing cheerleader to their blatant INACTION. this would be the same democrats that blocked drilling in alaska and off shore.

We are not talking about drilling in Alaska. The current energy bill is multi faceted and contains most of the actions that are needed to move us toward increased energy and less consumption. The majority have said they do not support drilling in Alaska and the amount of oil does not solve the problem.

Bush and the GOP are also blocking all the spending bills. What they are doing is requiring a super majority to pass anything. That is not the intent of the Constitution. I hope the Democrats retain the GOP tactics in their play book should at some time in the future the GOP take control of Congress. What the GOP is doing is setting the table for a meal they may not like should they regain control of Congress at some time in the future. I hope the democrats use the same tactics against the GOP if they ever regain control of Congress!

If Congress wants to decrease our dependence on foreign oil, then we should be using DOMESTIC oil while encourage the production of viable alternatives. Sorry, but wind and solar aren't viable alteratives to oil. There is NO chance of them producing enough to ever keep up.

The solution is a combination of alternate energy and more efficient use of oil. That is what this bill does and the is NO VALID reason for the GOP to block it.

no we are talking about reducing our dependence on foreign oil.

we are talking about why the democrats want to raise taxes.

we are talking about why the democrats are blocking the use of domestic oil so that they can have something to campaign on.

we are talking about why you turn something that is bad against the people who have said it was bad.

i guess you haven't read all of the good reasons why this bill is bad just on this thread.

Reply By: danielostPosted: Saturday, December 08, 2007 That is what this bill does and the is NO VALID reason for the GOP to block it. i guess you haven't read all of the good reasons why this bill is bad just on this thread.

NO GOOD REASONS HAVE BEEN POSTED> LOOK at the BILL:

_ Renewable motor fuels: Requires a sevenfold increase in the use of ethanol as a motor fuel to 36 billion gallons a year by 2022, with two-thirds to be cellulose ethanol from such feedstock as prairie grass and wood chips. Has tax incentives for renewable fuels plants. This was one of the solutions Bush proposed especially the use of "Prairie Grass" Go back and look as some of his speeches when he told us we were addicted to oil!


Taxes: Includes a $21 billion tax package, including a rollback of $13.5 billion in tax breaks for the five largest oil companies. The revenue is to be used for tax incentives to promote renewable fuels and energy efficiency. This would redirect the money from going into the profits of oil companies to providing tax incentives to encourage renewable fuels and energy efficiency. THAT IS NOT A TAX INCREASE!



Electricity: Requires electric utilities to produce 15 percent of their power from renewable energy such as wind, solar or biomass. Some of the mandate could be satisfied by utilities promoting efficiency or buying renewable energy credits. Every article I have ever read has included these things as part of the solution. These not only would add energy but it would be controlled and owned by us not purchased from foreign countries.


Car Mileage: Requires automakers to increase the fuel economy of cars and small trucks, including SUVs, by 40 percent to an industry average of 35 miles per gallon by 2020. This would be far mote effective then 100 new drilling sights in Alaska. About 1/2 of the oil we use goes into cars. The poor mileage of SUV's and Trucks is responsible for a great deal of the increased demand for oil in this country. WHY would anyone object to this?



Energy efficiency: Requires increased energy efficient appliances and improvements in energy efficiency of federal and commercial buildings. Also requires faster approval of federal energy efficiency standards. Saving energy is just as effective as locating more oil in Alaska without the environmental dangers.


_ Hybrid cars: Creates tax incentives to develop plug-in hybrid electric cars and establishes tax credits for buying the vehicles. This is one of the MOST important long term solutions to our dependence on foreign oil. As these cars develop, they will become more affordable and any that we make could be sold to other countries to help our trade imbalance.



Finally, passage of this bill does not stop other measures from being adopted to help us become LESS dependent of Foreign Oil!