Gideon MacLeish

Vista Hating Shows Strength of XP

Vista Hating Shows Strength of XP

As I watch the back and forth between people who like Windows Vista and those who, umm, don't, a thought occurred to me.

More than underscoring a weakness in Windows Vista, the opposition proves a point that unfortunately Microsoft's PR department is slow to pick up on:

People LIKE XP.

I saw the same thing after Windows 98 came out. A lot of users were reluctant to change, not so much because 98 was bad, but because they were content from what they were getting out of their Windows 95 machines and had a hard time understanding how the experience could be improved upon.

In the case of XP, it delivered everything the unsophisticated end user could ask for: stability, security, and an intuitive, user friendly interface. Those who had lived through the BSOD era brought about in the 98 days (and continued through the ME days, when the blue screen seemed more common than a clean boot), were ecstatic to see what XP brought about, and the system brought about the long awaited merging of personal computers with multimedia.

I can't argue about the advantages of Vista, especially as it is built for advanced systems and optimizes 64 bit architecture. But the fact is, to many end users, XP is adequate for their needs.

Microsoft built a great product in XP, one that a lot of people are sorry to see go. And there's a lot of public relations potential in that fact. It's just too bad Microsoft does not seem to realize it.

55,222 views 159 replies
Reply #101 Top
Anyhow...


We shall have to agree to disagree about Vista, Kona - I like it and you're not too fond of it - but no to worry, when all is said and done, we're just a couple of ordinary blokes who enjoy frequenting 'personal computing' discussions.

You know I have only been working with a computer for 5 years..


Me too...a bit over 5 years or so, and what a learning curve it has been...always interesting, frequently fun....sometimes frustrating.

I began with 98SE, but upgraded to XP Home within a few weeks due to the better security and functions it offered. A couple of years ago I upgraded to XP Professional cos I desired an 'elevated status' and found the 'Upgrade' on special for just AU$90.00 (normally $360ish).

Being a hardware/software upgrade junkie, the next natural step for me was an upgrade to Vista...of the Ultimate variety, and I've not looked back since. I find Vista to be faster, more stable and easier to use....as in, it don't crash every time I manage to cock something up.
Reply #102 Top
AT this stage of the game, I would like to gently point out that someone saying "I don't LIKE Vista" is not even remotely close to the same thing as saying "I'm not smart enough to USE Vista".

Might I ask all the Vista fans why they don't use Linux? I would not assume for a second they're not smart enough to use Linux, just that they PREFER to use Vista. And that's fine.

We CAN defend our own O/S preferences without slamming others'.
Reply #103 Top
Hey Gideon - I have and do use Linux - heck I use all of them - it really is hard to compare one to another - hardware makes such a difference - as well as what you do with your computer - business apps or really getting behind the curtain as to what makes this thing tick.

I guess my position on all this is use what you like - and as long as it is done in fun then fight for your brand...have fun with it...and at the end of the day...it really is just a computer.
Reply #104 Top
I guess my position on all this is use what you like - and as long as it is done in fun then fight for your brand...


Yes...and use one of these in the process!

WWW Link
Reply #105 Top
Oh man - I have GOT to get me one of those!! I like how you think!


Reply #106 Top
You are most welcome to hold whatever opinions you like. Others are not obliged to agree.Given I do not have a minge you are most welcome to singe it. I have a copy of Vista Ultimate. I run a signwriting business. Vista is a liability currently therefore I will not use it until I can use ALL my current necessary software on it. That is a sound business decision based on Vista's failure to be capable of running the software XP has no difficulty with. I do not have time to run around getting information on how to get the software to work on Vista. I have to have eight hours productivity a day. Vista failed to achieve that and was found wanting. I gave it a fair go.  
Reply #107 Top
In my book, Vista is over. I'm typing this on a freshly formatted machine reverted to XP after suffering 6 months of hell in Vista.

Its an arrogant user-hostile OS. M$ for some reason thinks that when you put Vista on your computer, they have the right to tell you how you should do things, and that somehow they bought controlling stock on YOUR machine. Have I got news for them.

That plus the system is so fragile that an AIM update can take the system apart. Just Google "AIM 6.5 Vista problems". Anything that flimsy and arrogant had to go. If they stop supporting XP before Vista's replacement comes out I'm off to buy a Mac.
Reply #108 Top
M$ for some reason thinks that when you put Vista on your computer, they have the right to tell you how you should do things, and that somehow they bought controlling stock on YOUR machine


Very good point. You may have only leased the software license, but you BOUGHT the hardware. At least with Linux, you OWN the O/S.
Reply #109 Top
A USB missile launcher. Now that's something I gotta have!   
Reply #111 Top
Did you think the problems could be from the AIM , it's not like AOL. isn't a HOG..
I had problems with the AIM (after the beta update) be none before that. I just figured it is something that AOL has to fix. Time will tell....
Reply #112 Top
I find myself now at a crossroads...
Havng run Vista Ultimate for nearly 6 months, about all of it trouble free, last night it finally bellied up but good.
I installed Motorola Phone Drivers and when itrebooted I was greeted with an ever present flashing _ on a solid black background. Booted from the Vista DVD to do repair... Failed. System Restored fine but still the same result.
Now, it could be coincedence and a physical hard drive issue occurred at the reboot moment, but I suspect not.

XP has failed quite a bit more in it's lifetime and I will say that thus far the Vista install was much more stable. Should I return to it.... perhaps. I have the whole day to ponder it....
Reply #113 Top
Might I ask all the Vista fans why they don't use Linux?


At present, while I dual boot Vista and XP, I'm now running Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon on an external drive to evaluate/play with it prior to installing it proper on my other box when it arrives next Jan/Feb.

Yeah, there's a bit to get used to, and there's a learning curve that's different to Vista's, but I'm enjoying it thus far and will report back with my thoughts/opinion when I'm a lot more qualified/experienced in its use....but so far so good.

M$ for some reason thinks that when you put Vista on your computer, they have the right to tell you how you should do things, and that somehow they bought controlling stock on YOUR machine

Very good point. You may have only leased the software license, but you BOUGHT the hardware. At least with Linux, you OWN the O/S.


Now this is one thing I am not happy about with Vista...Microsoft's decision to impose its will with regard to Stardock changing Windowblinds and Iconpackager, etc, skins storage to the Public Documents Folder. Supposedly, the argument is to make the skins accessible to all users, but to me that is a crock of sh!t. First of all, why does MS assume there are any other users on my PC, that I'd even let anyone else use it?

Secondly, I am the Administrator of MY PC, so I should be the one who decides on the storage on MY skins and downloads, whether or not I allow other users...and if I do, whether or not I want them to have access to MY skins, etc.

Microsoft overstepped the boundaries here big time...it assumed wrongly! There are NO other users on MY PC...nor will there ever be, and it had NO effing right to make decisions regarding MY property. The hardware is mine, the 3rd party software is mine by virtue of the licenses with developers, etc...and the OS is mine to use as I see fit within and by virtue of the terms of the EULA I entered into with MS. However it did NOT originally include proviso for MS to stick its nose into my personal affairs or designate itself Administrator of MY HDD space or the files contained thereon. That changed after the fact and it is patently wrong.

Frankly, the whole debacle is piss poor and I'm rather disappointed that Stardock caved in to MS' demands, that we, as Stardock's bread and butter, were not consulted...even notified that it was being done
Reply #114 Top
Frankly, the whole debacle is piss poor and I'm rather disappointed that Stardock caved in to MS' demands, that we, as Stardock's bread and butter, were not consulted...even notified that it was being done


Good point starkers. I would think that the customers of SD would have been warned. I'm not suprised to learn, however, that they were not.   

I'm not a Vista hater by any means. It just seems to me that waiting is a better option. There are things about Vista I think are neat (mostly astetic things- like I wish I could run Dreams on my XP). But that's not enough to convince me to run out and buy a copy. Plus, it's too expensive for what you get. The upgrade to Vista Ultimate is $159.00! For the UPGRADE!!! The full install is, what...$259.00? No thanks.....
Reply #115 Top
It just seems to me that waiting is a better option


Saw it for 179.00 (OEM) a moment ago... but the economics are more than just the cost of a new install. I think that's why a lot of companies prefer to wait, too.

Reply #116 Top
I worked for a major medical insurance company and in one building we had over 500 pc's running for claims processing, customer service and management.

- When we switched to XP from 98, there was a general learning curve that cost us valuable employee time when you added it up and we were smaller then

- Vista is not fully compatable with older motherboards and does not always go to standby which increases the cost of electricity not to mention the memory upgrade cost alone...

- Many (or most) internal apps would need to be rewritten for Vista at an enourmous monetary and time consuming cost

- The basic software used for claims processing and customer service would need to be rewritten in part and requires the consent of the software partners

Bottom line: When an employee is required to answer a call in <30 seconds and a processor must resolve 100 claims per hour to simply maintain performance standards that the customers (other business, like UPS, Boeing, etc.) have been guranteed, any major OS transition would need the blessing of the customer who would see a drop in performance and be Ok with that for a while. Their employess would have a hissyfit! or worse... The liability of processing a medical claim wrong, well, nuff said.
Reply #117 Top
Plus, it's too expensive for what you get. The upgrade to Vista Ultimate is $159.00! For the UPGRADE!!! The full install is, what...$259.00? No thanks....


Think that's a lot...here in Oz a full version of Vista Ultimate is AU$754 RRP, the upgrade is around $580, and the OEM is $330 RRP...The 3 Home Premium prices (on average) are $180 less per each issue. Last time I looked and did my math regarding the USD -AUD exchange rate, it worked out to be we were paying the equivalent of the US price plus 24%

I got my OEM of Ultimate for AU$320, but I got a great deal on the hardware I purchased with it, so I'm not complaining cos the overall cost was quite reasonable.
Reply #118 Top
Finally a response from what is normally called "the real world", you know where people actually have to use a computer to do their job. That's really where everyone should be paying attention. It' nice that OS's work on your home computer and you can do the things that you want, but that's not where MS needs to be performing, it's in the workplace.

Sorry, it's Monday and I have wanted to say that for a long time. Good post myquietson.
Reply #119 Top
It' nice that OS's work on your home computer and you can do the things that you want, but that's not where MS needs to be performing, it's in the workplace.


Same thing happened with XP. Most companies didn't have it till SP2. They are always slow in the adoption of a new OS, ALWAYS.
Reply #120 Top
When I buy a new pc system I will make sure I have Vista on it. My current pc computers run fine with WinXP and look great with the skins of my choice. I could have installed Vista on them but they run exceptionally well the way they are and I do not wish to mess up perfectly good systems.

For easy maintenance, 64 bit system, simplicity and overall stability I prefer to use OSX for my important computer work.
Reply #121 Top
Anyone interested, here is a video about Windows 7 (internal codename) and the MinWin (codename) kernel.

WARNING: It is 1+ hour in length and ~143.2 MB and quite a bore if you're not into details

this is the first time I've tried to embed a link so I hope it works...

WWW Link
Reply #122 Top
Same thing happened with XP. Most companies didn't have it till SP2. They are always slow in the adoption of a new OS, ALWAYS.


I'm seeing companies here in Oz that still run 2K as their primary OS...and I'm not talking small 1 - 2 employee operations, either. A friend of mine works for a major Oz insurance firm that still uses 2K....reason, it's lightweight and economical to run, as compared to XP, has a smaller learning curve for new employees who may have less/limited PC experience ...well thats what Ben reckons.

It isn't just companies who are slow upgrade/refuse to adopt new OSes....my neighbour before we moved to Queensland from Tasmania point blank refused to have XP installed on his PC...even though it shipped with it. Within an hour of unpacking/setting it up, Wayne was reformatting and going back to 98 (not even SE)....and his second PC in the bedroom had 95 on it.

What really puzzled me was when he reformatted a brand-new Compaq laptop his daughter had won with XP Pro and MS Office Professional 2003 on it. I had to ask why, and his reply was that XP was bloated and slow, that Luna was ugly and unusable. It mattered not when I told him Luna could be disabled to make XP look more like 98....he was like a man possessed and the reformat was imperative...seriously, like it was life or death.

So is there a chance Wayne 'll ever upgrade to Vista...even Home Basic??? Only if Hell freezes over, perhaps....tho I seriously doubt it even then.

Reply #123 Top
I would say it will be quite a while before Vista is used in business applications.

One of the reasons that I have had conversation on with some System Admins. is there are too many things a user can do with Vista that would affect workstation stability - especially with Dreams and sidebar issues. Another issue is - it would be a real challenge to really shut down all the openings in Vista from a security standpoint. Just a matter of time until the sidebar gadgets are hacked allowing open access.

From a personal perspective though it is a blast to play with!
Reply #124 Top
Think that's a lot...here in Oz a full version of Vista Ultimate is AU$754 RRP, the upgrade is around $580, and the OEM is $330 RRP...The 3 Home Premium prices (on average) are $180 less per each issue. Last time I looked and did my math regarding the USD -AUD exchange rate, it worked out to be we were paying the equivalent of the US price plus 24%

I got my OEM of Ultimate for AU$320, but I got a great deal on the hardware I purchased with it, so I'm not complaining cos the overall cost was quite reasonable.


You know that really sucks. PC prices have dived. Now you can pick up one for pennies (I hear Best Buy is selling some laptops for $150USD - limited supply), but the Software? Has gone through the roof!
Reply #125 Top
I would say it will be quite a while before Vista is used in business applications.

One of the reasons that I have had conversation on with some System Admins. is there are too many things a user can do with Vista that would affect workstation stability - especially with Dreams and sidebar issues. Another issue is - it would be a real challenge to really shut down all the openings in Vista from a security standpoint. Just a matter of time until the sidebar gadgets are hacked allowing open access.


This isn't the first time I've read this...a while back another article referred to the same security issues, particularly with sidebar gadgets that can access the net.

The article went further to say that lost productivity was another issue businesses had concerns with, being Vista offers more/greater distractions for employees to waste time with. Personally, I think that if employees desire to be distracted from their work duties, they will find ways regardless of the OS/what's on it. An active browser and internet connection can...will do it every time.