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The secret to Twilight of the Arnor

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The secret to Twilight of the Arnor

The potential to be realized

from JoeUser Forums

Lots of coding in Twilight of the Arnor this week. One thing we're putting in is right of passage treaties which should make a lot of people happy.

But as we've been playing around with things, we've come to realize that what is going to make Twilight of the Arnor so spectacular is not the unique technology trees unto themselves but rather the planetary improvements and ship components that these unique tech trees can deliver.

For this reason, we're going to have a beta next month for people who have pre-ordered. More details soon but we're so confident that people are going to like the changes that we're going to do the beta program quite differently than past ones, it'll be a real treat I think for people who closely follow things as we roll out the various tech trees one at a time.

For those of you who really know GalCiv, consider very carefully the possibilities that unique tech trees can really provide. Forget the techs but rather the unique planetary improvements as just one example. Think about how different the civilizaitons can play out with enough unique planetary improvements.  Envision that.

I wish you guys could have been with us at the lab today. This expansion pack is just going to be something that we think players will be so happy with. We're just incredibly excited about the possibilities that are only starting to really dawn on us as the implications of what unique technology trees do.

86,953 views 76 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Oh, I so need to clear some time to be a beta tester for this. It sounds so cool! Like Iztok, probably my biggest concern is with adding so much, will the AI be able to get the most out of the new system and all of the new options. But that's what testing and feedback is for, right?

- Wyndstar
Reply #27 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If you don't have a right of passage treaty, ships will only move 1 move per turn through someone else's sphere of influence.


Won't tha sort of rip Super-Isolationist, or are you giving them something else?

drrider
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Is it too late to get in on this beta?
Reply #29 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Looks awesome, thanks for the info and for the upcoming beta.
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Looking forward to trying this out.
Reply #31 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Maybe I'm alone in wanting this, but is there ever going to be a tag for techs along the lines of
Reply #32 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The unique tech trees do sound fantastic. It should really make it worthwhile to play as all the races in the game. As it stands at the moment, there are still some races I haven't played as because there isn't that much differentiation between them. But now there is incentive and it should make each race feel really different. I look forward to reading all the descriptions of the new techs too! Must be a heck of a lot of work developing all of this.
The 'willingness to trade' sounds like a good idea too. I hope the trading screen is revamped significantly so you can still work out what you are doing with all the different techs available now.
Reply #33 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yay, I preordered it a while ago!

Can't wait for the beta.
Reply #34 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
as we roll out the various tech trees one at a time.


I don't suppose there's any plan to try to include a long-game subset in the beta? I had a very interesting time with the DA beta, but I admit I was frustrated by having to choose between checking out interim builds and actually getting a game even well underway, much less finished.

I've always understood that in-house testing for the biggest maps is necessarily limited, and probably mostly automated. I have this fantasy that brilliant dev types should be able to figure out how to use a drooling fan base as an effective substitute.
Reply #35 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
How can a "right of passage treaty", which is just a piece of paper, change the laws of physics to slow down ships? You'd damned well better have a convincing rationale for that one. It just doesn't make sense.

Actually, the Super-Isolationist slowdown doesn't make sense either, unless it's enforced, for example, with military starbases that implement the slowdown technology (improved interdiction beams available as a part of the Super-Isolationist ability, etc.), and which can be destroyed, so that an attacker can gouge their way through super-isolationist space, a sector at a time.
Reply #36 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You just made a sale.

Question though, is willingness to trade a variable that can be set? If so, I think it should be included in 1.7 as a global variable/option. Right now AI's are way too unwilling to trade with the human.

Reply #37 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I look forward to reading all the descriptions of the new techs too!


good point! now i'm going to have to slow back down to appriciate SD's wonderful sense of humor. PS, i don't supposed you guys (SD) would be accepting beta testers' input on refining the humor in the new techs?

How can a "right of passage treaty", which is just a piece of paper, change the laws of physics to slow down ships?


the same way speed limit signs on the highway keep you from taking your '07 mustang to 140 mph.


okay, i just pre-ordered. i hope i can still participate in the beta; this would be the first one i've been a part of (i usually prefer to wait for a more finished product, but in this case i want to help with the development process, if even only a little).
Reply #38 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Sorry to sound sour, but will you also be able to made AIs handle those unique techs? Handle it well? You're not giving the game one or two new techs and corresponding items, but several dozens if them, each requiring its own (substantial?) AI's chunk of code.


Not necessary. As far research goes, the current system, which simply uses a priority rating for each tech, would work perfectly fine with the new trees.

Even the improvements and components shouldn't be that bad, although I'm sure they'll be some tweaking along the way.
Reply #39 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Um, I would preorder in a heartbeat but TA is not on Stardock central, where to I preorder?
Reply #40 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
How can a "right of passage treaty", which is just a piece of paper, change the laws of physics to slow down ships?

the same way speed limit signs on the highway keep you from taking your '07 mustang to 140 mph.


Interstellar speed limit signs mean nothing if there's no physical enforcement by an asset of that civ. So, you break the speed limit within sensor range of an asset of that civ, then they get to decide if they want to declare war or embargo trade over it. "Cry moar plz."

That's why I suggested speed limit enforcement with Interdiction technology, where you (or the AI) has to blanket the slowdown regions they want to enforce, and pay production to do it.
Reply #41 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Scrap the above post found the buy page.

Edit: Dam there is no Pay Pal for preorders, oh well
Reply #42 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Interstellar speed limit signs mean nothing if there's no physical enforcement


agreed; i think it'd make more sense if the player had the ability to ignore the 'speed limit' and risk getting caught.

perhaps this could factor into the UP somehow. the player whose space was violated could simply go to war; alternatively, said player could bring a legal case before the UP, suing for money, a planet or technology, whatever. but that might be requesting a lot more than the devs are up to. but i am willing to agree that without some sort of technology intervention, the 'speed limit' should be something you can attempt to break/ignore without automatically going to war.
Reply #43 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
How can a "right of passage treaty", which is just a piece of paper, change the laws of physics to slow down ships? You'd damned well better have a convincing rationale for that one. It just doesn't make sense.

Actually, the Super-Isolationist slowdown doesn't make sense either, unless it's enforced, for example, with military starbases that implement the slowdown technology (improved interdiction beams available as a part of the Super-Isolationist ability, etc.), and which can be destroyed, so that an attacker can gouge their way through super-isolationist space, a sector at a time.


How can science labs be retooled to build spaceship components for a single week?

How can outer space be two-dimensional? For that matter, how can there be an edge of the map beyond which you cannot move?

These and other questioned answered on the next...Jenny Jones.
Reply #44 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The new features sound cool, but as others have said, it would be nice if most of the known bugs with the current game were fixed.
Reply #45 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That's a straw man argument, Ms. Jones: pointing out the other logical inconsistencies in the game system does nothing to invalidate my concerns about technologically enforcing speed limit treaties, nor does it justify inadequately rationalized game mechanics altogether.
Reply #46 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That's a straw man argument, Ms. Jones: pointing out the other logical inconsistencies in the game system does nothing to invalidate my concerns about technologically enforcing speed limit treaties, nor does it justify inadequately rationalized game mechanics altogether.


well, i'm not so sure. it's a subtle argument. your initial point was for a rationalization based on realistic physics and practicalities. locutus up there pointed out that there are a number of unrationalized game mechanics.

he didn't argue against your original point, no, but i think his un-articulated meta-argument is that this is a strategy game, not a simulator. if your demand was for a strategic rationalization of the new game feature, that'd be a different matter.

on an unrelated note, perhaps this new game rule would be a wonderful opportunity to introduce cloaking technology...
Reply #47 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'd be happier with an in-game technological implementation of speed limits than a hand-wavey rationalization for them.
Reply #48 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
on an unrelated note, perhaps this new game rule would be a wonderful opportunity to introduce cloaking technology...


Good point. Clocking technologies would allow ships to move through the territory of other races without any movement penalty. Will clocking make TA or will it find its way into the next expansion pack (I reckon there'll be one more at least  )? I guess that it really depends on whether it can add enough uniqueness to gameplay / strategy to justify the effort to implement it into the game. We can only hope...
Reply #49 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Will Minor Races ever be able to do some amount of colonization?
Reply #50 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'd be happier with an in-game technological implementation of speed limits than a hand-wavey rationalization for them.


and now you're on borglocutus's terms.

Will clocking make TA or will it find its way into the next expansion pack (I reckon there'll be one more at least  )?


perhaps it's the sort of thing they'll evaluate after setting the stage for it.