The same can be said about you Col, or are you that thick that you don't even realize it? Kettle calling pt black comes to mind here, hypocrisy as well.

Just as you ignore the facts that we present to you?  LOL. 

Reply By: Island Dog Posted: Tuesday, September 04, 2007
“I use current and relevant facts and expert opinion that shows things you do not want to accept.


Just as you ignore the facts that we present to you? .”


You present facts that do not deal with the issues I post and do not show that what I post is not correct. I will stand on what I have written and you can look back in a few years and you will see that what I said in my book is what, for the most part; the future will prove to be correct.

Do you think putting something in bold makes you correct?  Your "facts" and opinions have been debunked here countless times along with the nonsense in your book.  LOL.

Reply By: Island Dog Posted: Tuesday, September 04, 2007
I will stand on what I have written and you can look back in a few years and you will see that what I said in my book is what, for the most part; the future will prove to be correct.


Do you think putting something in bold makes you correct? Your "facts" and opinions have been debunked here countless times along with the nonsense in your book. >


You have not debunked ANYTHING I have said and what I have written can be compared in the future when all the results of the disaster called the Bush Administration is fully known!

you can't debunk his opinions he doesn't have any. he just steals someone elses

Reply By: danielost Posted: Tuesday, September 04, 2007
Your "facts" and opinions have been debunked here countless times along with the nonsense in your book. .


"you can't debunk his opinions he doesn't have any. he just steals someone elses"


Some of what I post is factual information and is not "Opinion” Many of the things I post are “Opinions" from some of the MOST knowledgeable people or organizations in our country. It does not matter to many on this Blog site-- If they show that Bush or his policies are not effective or good for our country, many on Joe User either attack me or attack the source as " Liberal" or some other lame excuse! That just shows that the person making these attacks is not interested in facts or what truly informed people or organizations have to offer. Just support Bush no matter how clearly the facts show he is wrong! Very few on this Blog Site have "First Hand" Knowledge on the things they post!

This was the content of your entire statement to that point in this thread Charles.

"You're wasting your time daniel. Col is the king of contradictions and he now has a side-kick. Dan probably thinks that 2 heads are better than 1 but that's only true if both heads have a brain."

If that's all you got to add fine, but you don't need to criticize what I have to say, irregardless of what the Col thinks. I make my own points, if they agree or disagree with other sources, no matter what the credibility in your mind is, so be it. They are my points.

Let me provide an example of HOW some on this site refuse to accept the truth.

I have posted the fact that I served for 30 Years in the Army and Army Reserve. I know the system and understand what is required of both EM and Officers who serve in the military. When I document the fact that GWB disobeyed Regulations, was grounded and failed to meet his obligations I am told it is just Bush Bashing and is not relevant today. That is incorrect. Lt. Bush should have been disciplined for his actions and in no way earned or should have received an Honorable Discharge. I know that from First Hand Knowledge of the system and I have copies of the documents that prove Bush disobeyed regulations and was grounded which is a serious violation. He was granted that Honorable Discharge not because he earned or deserved it but because of his father's contacts. Without that Honorable Discharge Bush would not have been elected Governor of Texas or President of the U.S. I do not know if Bush should have been granted a Bad Conduct or Dishonorable Discharge but I know he did nor earn nor deserve an Honorable Discharge.

For anyone on Joe User that served in the military and followed their orders and military regulations when they served, to support a Commander-in-Chief like Bush is an outrage. They should be ashamed that we have a President that when it was his turn to serve disobeyed orders and regulations and then was granted something as important as an Honorable Discharge. If ANY other Officer had done what Bush did, they would have been punished. It is like all the people that follow the rules to enter our country legally and then watch the millions that violate our laws and enter the U.S. Illegally and get away with violating the laws just like Bush did in 1973.

You sound like I hurt your feelings. I'm sorry . Grow up already. If you can't take the heat find another kitchen to hang out at. Don't line yourself with Col and his ridiculous claims of always being right and then get mad when someone points it out to you.

Have you included yourself in this?

Oh look, gene is being pummeled again so he goes back to the Bush was AWOL nonsense.  Nobody cares gene!

Reply By: Island Dog Posted: Wednesday, September 05, 2007
“Very few on this Blog Site have "First Hand" Knowledge on the things they post!


Have you included yourself in this?”

“Oh look, gene is being pummeled again so he goes back to the Bush was AWOL nonsense. Nobody cares gene! “

Without the Honorable Discharge Bush would be a Nobody in Texas today. That is not nonsense!!!!! I take it you never served in the Military!

YES I HAVE. That is why I use knowledgeable sources or sight facts from sights like the Treasury, Census Bureau etc. I did post one area where I do have First Hand Knowledge - the Bush and his military service. I have copies of the documents and the knowledge of the military from 30 years of service! People do care. Just people like you and others on this Blog Site that are willing to close their eyes to Bush and what he did to our country!

"You sound like I hurt your feelings. I'm sorry . Grow up already. If you can't take the heat find another kitchen to hang out at. Don't line yourself with Col and his ridiculous claims of always being right and then get mad when someone points it out to you."

LOL I'm 25, I think I can handel myself but thanks for the heads up. Like I said, I make points, because they are my own. When I agree, with someone it's because I agree with them.

If you have something more to add, like facts, or perspective then bring it, otherwise you are just fine shutting up about what I write, who I happen to line up with or not, like it or not.

Thanks.

You're still a rookie. But with some potential.



Like i said don't put your hands in the fire if you gonna complain about getting burned.

You want facts? Here's one. Leaving Iraq will do more harm than good. You think they will not kill each other because AQ is not out to kill the Iraqis but perhaps you've been oblivious to the same death tolls you speak of. It is not the US who is killing these innocent Iraqis, it is AQ creating more conflict by killing innocent civilians and trying to cause a civil war. AQ does not even have to kill one of our soldiers to create chaos for us, they simply need to make Iraq look like a failure and that is exactly what they are doing. AQ is not beating us, we are beating ourselves by losing faith in the mission and allowing AQ to convince us that we have lost. AQ is hitting us in the face with our own rule book, making faces and laughing at us. They can stand there with guns in their hands playing MC Hammers song "You can't touch this" with our rules of engagements in their hands and literally throw a bomb at our soldiers and kill a few of them before we get to shoot a single shot.

Every time an innocent Iraqi dies, who gets blamed? We do. Every time the Gov't of Iraq fails to come thru, who gets blamed? We do. Every time a bomb goes off it's our fault. Why? Because AQ has the American people believing they are innocent people, freedom fighters who are fighting the bad guys. They have the American people so confused that we would rather pull back, pull out and let the Iraqi people suffer at their hands and allow the destruction of everything these soldiers have sacrifice and even given their lives for.

The least we can do is give Iraq and it's people a fighting chance to stand on their own 2 feet. even if they show very little motivations to do so. But I guess that is why our children now a days are in more danger than before, because if it's not easy and don't ASAP and get 100% good results, it's not worth trying right?

I'm 31 years old and still have a lot to learn about life. Just because the US Gov't deems you an adult by your age doesn't mean you are ready to take on the world. You're still fresh out of the package. You may want to take the world a bit more serious and less like a "I'm untouchable and immortal" person. I should know.

If one person died today, and two people died tomorrow, Gene would report that the death toll was up 100% in one day.

Reply By: Dan Greene Posted: Wednesday, September 05, 2007
"You sound like I hurt your feelings. I'm sorry . Grow up already. If you can't take the heat find another kitchen to hang out at. Don't line yourself with Col and his ridiculous claims of always being right and then get mad when someone points it out to you."


Since most of the sources are either agencies like the Treasury, Census people like George Tenet, I know what post is true. When you and others claim I am wrong you show your ignorance because you are not saying I am WRONG but my sources are wrong. That is PURE BS!!!

The problem gene, is you completely misrepresent these facts.  Case in point is how you automatically use Tenet as a source, and then hold your hand over your ears when we show counter points to what Tenet said.  Just because someone like Tenet "said" something, doesn't exactly make it true, or show the whole picture. 

You seemed to constantly ignore the findings that the CIA and Tenet bungled intelligence, and mishandled terrorism before Bush was elected.  Since that would put the "blame" on a democrat you simply choose to ignore it.  This is exactly why you are not taken seriously here gene.

You're problem is when these same sources show Bush being right you begin to scream that Bush is somehow making them say these good things to make him look good. The only bullshitter here is you Col.



Everyone in the office stared at me wondering why I was laughing.



Well said. It's amazing how Col believes he is always right, that he would even have the balls to say it just like that. Then he claims to admit when he is wrong, it may be possible he can admit when he is wrong, the problem is he would have to think he is wrong in order to admit it. Since he is always right, I guess we will never know.

I see you got Col fighting your battles now Dan Greene.

"You want facts? Here's one. Leaving Iraq will do more harm than good."

Why? Prove that or at least explain it.

"they simply need to make Iraq look like a failure and that is exactly what they are doing."

What the hell are you talking about Iraq is a failure. There are tens of thousands of civilians dead since the occupation began, spiraling violence, overextended troop commitments, lack of exit strategy, Iraqi politicians actively criticizing American politicians, I mean maybe if a nuclear bomb went off, it would be worse, but "the goddamn plane has crashed into the fucking mountain!" to quote a funny movie.

There is no definition that could describe the occupation a success. Sure, we have a democratically elected government, we have Saddam dead, we have, well that's it. We have wasted half a trillion dollars to get this far, 3500 Americans have given their lives, there is no end in sight and no withdrawl date, the cycle of violence we see today is the exact same cycle we say in 2005, and 2006, it is not Q4 of 2007, and the plan is to stick it out until at least 2008 or 2009.

"The least we can do is give Iraq and it's people a fighting chance to stand on their own 2 feet."

I say that's bullshit. We have already given this country 5 years to get it's act together. What the least we could do was, push our interests,

A. Rid the country of WMD
B. Get rid of Saddam
C. setup a government to run the show
D. Leave


So far A-B-C are checks, the hold up on D is not our responsibility. These are not American citizens, they are people of course but they have to choose to fight for their own freedom.

You seem to believe that AQ is controlling events in Iraq and that is total bologne, the insurgency is 95-99% of what is going on. Why is there an insurgency, the government isn't working together to solve their problems.

Of course we could stay another 5 or 10 years at great financial cost, and human life cost, things would probably be better maybe even more than marginally so, but the trade-off is we cannot deal with Iran if we need to militarily, we cannot fight AQ in other areas of the world, and we cannot secure the financing of our nation's future.

That is a fact as well.

"But I guess that is why our children now a days are in more danger than before, because if it's not easy and don't ASAP and get 100% good results, it's not worth trying right?"

Charles you make is sound like we invaded in 2006. Recall we invaded in 2003.

Look at this one webpage and tell me this surge is working or that the situation is improving. On this page is the truth about what is going on, it's a compilation of suicide bombings. Note the frequency within the last few months. There is little if any progress being made on the security front. I would happily concede that we could stick it out longer, but there is no down trend in the violence. It is only increasing both in frequency and intensity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bombings_in_Iraq_since_2003

Do you want to know what shit isn't working in Iraq. Read here.

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20070730&s=hedges

Now before you post another single word referencing me, you read it, and then you comment on it.

I don't think you could possibly sugar coat whats going on in Iraq DAILY. It's a fucking mess over there. A fucking mess with no end in sight! That is the problem, the solution to that is not to commit to maintaining a fucking mess forever as the president has done since 2004. The solution is to clean it up. The fact it we are unable to do that. The majority of the country sees that an is unwilling to draft the one or two million troops necessary to do properly garrison Iraq. The alternative is to subcontract it out to the owners of the mess, i.e. Iraqi citizens.

The sooner we get started on that, the sooner we are able to apply our military to missions in the war on terror, and the sooner the Iraqis make or break their country.

Funny, I thought I explained that in the rest of my post. Maybe I can make it easier to understand. Why did we do the surge? Because every time we left one area to fight somewhere else the death toll in those areas would go up again. Kinda what Col is saying here about the surge and the fighting shifting. If when we move from one place to another they go to those areas and bring chaos again, what do you think will happen if we leave all together? Does that explain it? Does that prove my point or do you still think nothing will happen when actions around Iraq prove otherwise?



Iraq is a failure because you wanna believe it is. The death toll is not a sign of failure, people die in wars. This was has not been declared a success, it is a work in progress. But as I stated before, if it’s not done perfectly and within a day it’s a failure according to people like you. The irony is that you guys now point out the successful things is Iraq such as you did above, but that doesn’t matter, because you will smear it with the bad things. I guess when you have kids someday they will always be losers no matter how good they are because they too will make mistakes. I guess that makes you a loser as well, right?

I just love how you guys use the money and soldier death toll as your Ace in the hole.



What’s wrong, you don’t know how to finish something you start? They are fighting; last I check not every single American man woman and child fought during our civil war. Or does the Iraqi military not count now?



You can call it bologna, ham or salami for all I care, but I’m not the one who keeps crying about AQ being in Iraq because of us. And here’s the interesting part, we actually created a Gov’t composed of all 3 factions, yet you people expected them to forget the thousands of years of hatred and just get along over night. Perfection should be your modo. You are becoming one of Col’s drones. Next thing you know you will be saying “resistance is futile”.



When did I say that? Duh, we went in in 2003, the only confused one here is you. LOL, you link Wiki as a credible source? Hell I can create a Wiki page with all the bad stuff that happens in Iraq, I can even put 10 pictures of different angles of an attack and state it was several different attacks. Hey, you have the right to believe that nothing good is happening in Iraq while ignoring all the good that happens in Iraq if it makes you feel better. In the end we will really see the outcome.



So the words of a few soldiers is enough to convince you? If I found and equal or higher amount of soldier that said to the contrary, would you take their words for it or would you claim Bush threatened them like Col does?


You see, you problem is that you are not 100% sure of anything. Hey, there will be soldiers who don’t think things are going good and there will be those with the opposite. Are you gonna ignore those soldiers just like Col does just so you can push your agenda? Do you ever follow ShadowWar’s articles? How come you don’t take that as good coming from Iraq, oh yea, you don’t believe anything good happens there.

Do me a favor; don’t demand me to read anything, especially on someone else’s article. I won’t waste my time with things when you yourself won’t read other peoples stuff that proves to the contrary. And you wonder why I compare you to Col.

BTW, I'm not gonna keep up with little game with you. I should have learned from the last time we got into it like this. It's not worth it when you already have your mind set to ignore and be right all the time.

the man in that office before bush was a draft dodger. and he gave aid and comfort to the enemy. where is your outrage about this.

"Iraq is a failure because you wanna believe it is. "

Iraq's post war is a failure because hundreds of thousands are dead because of our actions, millions are refugees, the surrounding nations are sending in foreign fighters, we don't have the forces to fight this war, and because we have no option but stay in or cut our losses and "hope" Iraq can make it on it's own.

That is a complete and total failure of the goals of the post war. The violence is only escalating, not leveling, or drawing down.

"The death toll is not a sign of failure, people die in wars."

Fuck that, soldiers die in war, civilians die when there isn't enough overwhelming force to bring the violence to a speedy conclusion. In this case, it just goes on and on. The goal of war is to bring a decision in a conflict with the minimal amount of damage to both sides, it's called battlefield efficiency and though it is a disgusting concept, it is a necessary study and learned field for commanders in war.

You acceptance of the staggering civilian death toll, the crazy amount of treasure spent thus far, the lack of any possible ending in sight is the sure sign of someone who is either making up their own facts, drawing their conclusion in absence of the facts, or not of sound enough mind to be doing either.

"So the words of a few soldiers is enough to convince you?"

Absolutely, above and beyond the credibility of the commander in chief is the word of the man and woman pulling the trigger, picking the dead 10 year old off the street.

"BTW, I'm not gonna keep up with little game with you. "

Good. Then you can stop posting in threads with cheap two sentence shots on a topic you clearly are out of touch with the reality on.

77,000



more civilians died in world war 2 than soldiers.