KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

Open Mouth, Insert Both Feet

Obama Bombs Away

Well Obama's gone and done it. He's ticked off the Evangelicals by going back on his committment not to be divisive. He has taken the low road in demeaning and mocking the faith of Conservative Christians. This is something he promised he wouldn't do.

This weekend he spoke at the national meeting of the very liberal United Church of Christ. He said the "Christian Right" has exploited its stance on several hot-button issues to attack the Democratic Party.

He said "Faith got hijacked, partly because of the so-called leaders of the Christian Right, all too eager to exploit what divides us," At every opportunity, they've told evangelical Christians that Democrats disrespect their values and dislike their church, while suggesting to the rest of the country that religious Americans care only about issues like abortion and gay marriage, school prayer, and intelligent design." I don't know what Bible they're reading, but it doesn't jibe with my version."

Of course my question is not only who is really doing the hijacking here but also, do you suppose Obama really reads his bible? If he does, then he's right, because his version sounds very different than almost every version I've ever read.

Didn't this same Obama promise to not be like the others? Didn't he promise not to be harsh or divisive as he set about a "new tone" in Washington, DC? Well I'd say he did some dividing this weekend. Certainly millions of Evangelical Christians will think so.

But think about it. Who really is doing the dividing here? The Christians haven't changed their stance. Historic Christianity and evangelical Christians have been unified in their commitment towards the protection of innocent human life, the sanctity and dignity of human life, and protecting women from abortion. The evangelicals have always maintained that marriage is between one man and one woman. So who's doing the dividing here? Certainly it can't be the ones who have always taken the stand for moral and absolute truth. Who's really changing the rules here? It's not the Christians. Me, I think the gap has just widened, and Obama is helping things along. It's like what God says, "when you feel far away, who moved?" "Not me" he says.

Do you suppose his harsh statements towards those on the right is to garner more votes from the ultra-liberal, because he's trailing Hillary in the polls? Or is this just the same old, same old; promise one thing and when they get into the thick of it, look around, do the ol' switcharoo and change their spots or maybe in this case...... his mask just plain fell off a bit earlier than usual?

I know one thing, he just bombed with the Evangelicals big time.

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If you don't know your position on an issue, don't talk about it. If you know your position on an issue, stick to it. If you change your position on an issue, tell us why. That's all I ask.

If someone asks you about your position on an issue you don't know your position on, say so. Say, "I am not currently taking a position on that issue." Then, do some research, come back in a week and tell us your position on that issue, and why.

That way, you couldn't just go to from place to place saying what everyone wanted to hear. If you change your mind, you would have to express the reason. And, "Because Florida is pro-choice." is just the kind of reason to change your mind that will keep you from getting my vote, so you better do better than that. And, if you change more than once during a year, you obviously don't know what you're talking about, and could easily change once you're in office, so how can I trust you to keep to the position that got you my vote?

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KFC? Listen to me a second because now you are in my field of expertize, Politicians from both parties, and if a third party gets involved then it will be all three parties are liars. You can tell when they are lying simply by watching their lips, if their lips are moving, chances are they are lying, or getting ready to lie.

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When he first started running, he was a breath of fresh air. But I said then that I was afraid the process would corrupt him. Whether it was the process or just a natural inclination, he is becoming as tired and trite as the rest of the mighty midgets running for office.

His ideas are not in line with mine, but i was hoping that at least he would be a man of integrity, not opportunity.

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

KFC? Listen to me a second because now you are in my field of expertize

Yes, sir!! That's what I need....expertize....it's not mine per se.....heheheh by now you should now what mine is.

You can tell when they are lying simply by watching their lips, if their lips are moving, chances are they are lying, or getting ready to lie.

I think you're onto something here.....I agree. So, now....who do we vote for? The liar that lies the least (say that fast 10X).

The only one I like so far stands a next to nil chance and that's Huckabee from Arkansas. I think he's about as honest as you can get which will probably take him right out of the running.

But I said then that I was afraid the process would corrupt him.

or......maybe.....exposed him. I'm of the belief that situations like this can corrupt or can expose what's really inside. Sometimes it's hard to tell.

rest of the mighty midgets running for office.

mighty migets huh? I like that....may steal that line from you!!

His ideas are not in line with mine, but i was hoping that at least he would be a man of integrity, not opportunity

*sigh* is there such a thing as a man of integrity running for public office anymore? If so, they are far too few and far between.

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*sigh* is there such a thing as a man of integrity running for public office anymore? If so, they are far too few and far between.

nope, it cost 100dreds of millions to run for President Now how can the common everyday good guy afford this?

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Obama is a media baby. I think his creation was a little too pre-mature he wasn't ready. His legs are still too shaky on where he stands.

At this point and time I don't see Obama having a sling with a few small stones. Like Guy I was hoping for a breath of fresh air. A new guy someone who hadn't been corrupted. But instead we find someone who is prime for corruption. There is time to make correction for him but he needs to turn on the bilge for now.

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

nope, it cost 100dreds of millions to run for President Now how can the common everyday good guy afford this?

Before Jerry Falwell died he told my son's journalism class that it costs about 5 billion nowadays to run for the presidency. Now that's plain ol' ridiculous...so going by them standards......there's no way we'd ever have another Lincoln or Washington as Prez again. Only the rich and their rich friends need apply. So that definitely lets loose the common everyday good guy.

I think his creation was a little too pre-mature he wasn't ready. His legs are still too shaky on where he stands.

so basically you're saying.....he needs to grow up!!

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Actually, I like what he's saying here. He's basically saying that Christians get a bad rap because of a few vocal extremists, and that those few have no right to speak for the majority.

Besides, perhaps his version of the Bible says, "'Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?' Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" (Mathew 22:36-39)

Or, maybe is simply says, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." (Mark 16:15)

You know, good news? Too often, I hear preaching on the "Fires of Hell" and the "Condemnation of Sinners" and I rarely hear good news... but that's what the Bible tells us to share.

I'm sorry, but Jerry Falwell does not speak for me. I don't believe 9/11 was caused by "the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and lesbians".

And maybe, just maybe, he's saying that Christian Americans can be concerned with more than, "abortion and gay marriage, school prayer, and intelligent design." (and if you don't think the 'how can you be a democrat and a Christian' thing isn't popular, you're wrong) Perhaps, he realizes that even Christians are concerned with school safety, school funding, foreign policy (which I believe to be the real reason behind 9/11), health care, social security, poverty, etc..

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

First off, the JF comment had nothing to do with the main body of the article only a comment to MM in response to his, so I wasn't insinuating that JF speak for you or anybody else.

Christians get a bad rap because of a few vocal extremists, and that those few have no right to speak for the majority.

Well since you like to quote bible verses, you must be quite familiar with the one that Jesus talked about the majority and the minority? I don't think in this context Obama was going after the extremes, he was going after Evangelicals in general. Remember who he was addressing here.

Besides we all know how this works...it's usually the minority that speaks for the majority nowadays...like I referenced in the situation at VMI. The MAJORITY were fine with prayer at dinner and had done it for over a hundred years...all it took was one atheistic cadet to get the rules changed. With that and the threat of loss of funds is all it takes. Happens all the time.

Besides, perhaps his version of the Bible says, "'Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?' Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" (Mathew 22:36-39)

Yes, but how does this love take place...by words only? Is love something that you only voice with no action behind it? Can you say you love God and yet murder the unborn? Can you say you love God yet say it's okay for two men to marry when God says it's an abomination to him? Can we love God and not hate what God hates?

You know quite well that God said "they draw close to me with their lips but their hearts are far from me."

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I didn't say you were saying that, I was merely pointing out that some Right Wing Conservatives have this idea that they speak for me... which is what Obama was pointing out -- that the Evangelicals do not speak for all Christians.

Second off, you and I can quote the Bible all day long at each other... but that doesn't mean you should legislate your morality or mine. Government should not be imposing Christian ideals on people -- which is exactly what anti-gay marriage is doing. If you think it's an abomination, then your church will not allow homosexual couples to get married. But marriage, as a legal contract, should not be regulated by the government.

I can love my neighbor best by not yelling and screaming and insulting and blaming, which seems to be the main occupation of a lot of "Christians."

And, if you reread your own quote, you'll see that he says the "LEADERS" of the Christian right. Leaders, not general population. And, I still don't see an attack here. Sorry, but I don't see it.

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I really don't see what is so offensive in his comment. I think the "religous right" just gets their hackles up and takes offense to things that weren't meant to be offensive. He said the "so-called leaders of the Christian Right are all too eager to expoit what divides us". I think that is a true statement. It think the "Christian Right" leaders definately take an us against them stance which is very divisive. It's good people like us who understand the Bible versus the heathens including the heathens who think they are Christians.

But think about it. Who really is doing the dividing here? The Christians haven't changed their stance. Historic Christianity and evangelical Christians have been unified in their commitment towards the protection of innocent human life, the sanctity and dignity of human life, and protecting women from abortion. The evangelicals have always maintained that marriage is between one man and one woman.

protection of innocent human life - except when it's the death penalty (do you really think all of the prisoners who were executed were guilty, especially now that we regularly see convictions being overturned because of DNA evidence)

the sanctity and dignity of human life - except if you are a homosexual

protecting women from abortion - because women are incapable of taking care of themselves?

marriage is between one man and one woman - I never heard this until gay marriage was an issue and in the Bible there were marriages of one man and many women.

I don't understand how evangelicals can see themselves so differently than everyone else. They do not seem loving, open-hearted and kind. They seem judgemental, mean and not Christian.

Okay I know I am completely going off on a tangent but why does it seem like the only things evangelicals care about is abortion and gay marriage. Why aren't they concerned about helping the poor, saving the planet (that God created), fighting the death penalty etc?

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I don't understand how evangelicals can see themselves so differently than everyone else. They do not seem loving, open-hearted and kind. They seem judgemental, mean and not Christian.

Right. The definition of love is calling children a "punishment". Gah, Loca, your hypocrisy is growing by the day!

That's why it's moronic to put people in a box. I'm suddenly pro death penalty because you and your far left goons have labelled me such? Any wonder why I'm offended by the "new" Loca? For the record, I've opposed the death penalty for over twenty years...and ACTIVELY so.

the sanctity and dignity of human life - except if you are a homosexual

Right. My church has a group that goes around beating homosexuals on Friday nights, Loca. You got us pegged

(for the inanely STUPID, that is called sarcasm. The religious right has done nothing as a group to endanger homosexuals, except in Loca's deluded little world)

protecting women from abortion - because women are incapable of taking care of themselves?

No, they're quite GOOD at taking care of themselves. It is their innocent OFFSPRING they're murdering.

marriage is between one man and one woman - I never heard this until gay marriage was an issue and in the Bible there were marriages of one man and many women.

Again, it's nice to label isn't it, Loca? If I stereotyped all Mexicans, you'd be all over it, wouldn't you? But when you stereotype all members of the religious right as if we didn't have minds of our own, you're doing the same thing. Your brand of "tolerance" is EXTREMELY intolerant of anyone politically to the right of Mao!

Okay I know I am completely going off on a tangent but why does it seem like the only things evangelicals care about is abortion and gay marriage. Why aren't they concerned about helping the poor, saving the planet (that God created), fighting the death penalty etc?

Because you only see what you want to see, Loca. Because you don't LOOK to see the churches that ARE doing those very things. Because it's easier to judge everyone else and proclaim your own moral superiority.

In your comments you were every bit as hypocritical as you accuse the religious right of being. But it's OK to be hypocritical in YOUR camp, right? KFC is expected to be perfect even though she will readily tell you that's impossible while you can stand on your pedestal and attack everyone that doesn't subscribe to your narrow minded views!

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KFC is expected to be perfect even though she will readily tell you that's impossible while you can stand on your pedestal and attack everyone that doesn't subscribe to your narrow minded views!

I don't expect perfection from anyone.

Because it's easier to judge everyone else and proclaim your own moral superiority.

I don't feel like I am morally superior.

Because you only see what you want to see, Loca. Because you don't LOOK to see the churches that ARE doing those very things.

Maybe some individual churches do have these ministries but when you see the national agenda of the religous right it primarily seems to be about stopping gay marriage and abortion.

But when you stereotype all members of the religious right as if we didn't have minds of our own, you're doing the same thing.

I am writing about my perception of the religous right as I see them portray themselves.

Right. The definition of love is calling children a "punishment". Gah, Loca, your hypocrisy is growing by the day!

I never called a child punishment.

For the record, I've opposed the death penalty for over twenty years...and ACTIVELY so.

Awesome. Why is it you think every comment is directed specifically at you?

Right. My church has a group that goes around beating homosexuals on Friday nights, Loca. You got us pegged

When a preacher preaches that God has abandoned America because of lesbians, I don't think that's treating lesbians (also children of God) with dignity.

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"There was even a time when the Christian Coalition determined that its number one legislative priority was tax cuts for the rich," Obama said. "I don't know what Bible they're reading, but it doesn't jibe with my version."

I just wanted to provide the complete quote with the Bible reference.

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

I can love my neighbor best by not yelling and screaming and insulting and blaming, which seems to be the main occupation of a lot of "Christians."

Oh, it's just the Christians who are doing the screaming? Can you tell me or give me one incident where Jerry Falwell (since his name came up) did this? He was quite well known to smile and sit quietly while the LEFT screamed at him...or threw pies in his face. Not once did he raise his voice.

but that doesn't mean you should legislate your morality or mine. Government should not be imposing Christian ideals on people -- which is exactly what anti-gay marriage is doing

I agree with you. But you've got it backwards. It's the other side that is doing the changing...not us. They are imposing their ideals on us. We are opposing it.

I'm kind of surprised with you SHE your holding these views since you said your dad was a SB Pastor. You must get into these same debates with him?

he says the "LEADERS" of the Christian right. Leaders, not general population

for the most part the leaders represent us or we wouldn't be involved right? Besides when he attacks our leaders it's like he's attacking us. You don't separate the head from the body without feeling the same pain.

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

They do not seem loving, open-hearted and kind. They seem judgemental, mean and not Christian.

Why do we? Because we oppose what God opposes? Because we are firm in our convictions; unchanging? I've seen many of these so called hate filled Christians work tirelessly for the homosexuals and for the drug addicted and for all that they oppose trying to reach out to the community to show them there is a better way. Some hatred. I don't see the opposite being done. I don't see the non-Christians helping us in any area.

I know my husband, a Pastor, is tired. Tired all the time. Why? Because he's helping people with messed up lives. Yes, those that are doing drugs, alcohol, those that are depressed because they made some very bad early decisions in their life.

What the Christians are doing LOCA is trying to show how these things will hurt them down the road. Abortion, Homosexuality,gambling, Drugs, etc....are all harmful lifestyles and it's out of love, not hatred they try to fight these things..it's for their benefit and the benefit of society....it's not hatred...it's love. Like Gid said...it's all in how you look at it.

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I don't feel like I am morally superior.

Well, you sure treat the rest of us as if you believe you do.

Awesome. Why is it you think every comment is directed specifically at you?

because I am a member of the group you're attacking, Loca. You don't like the liberals being put in a big box, you're quick to do it with others. As I said, hypocrisy.

Maybe some individual churches do have these ministries but when you see the national agenda of the religous right it primarily seems to be about stopping gay marriage and abortion.

National agenda? Maybe you think we have these clubs where we sit around thinking of ways to persecute people, but if you do, you're sadly mistaken. Let's talk about the HISPANIC national agenda, Loca. When we do, you'll get pissed off. Why? Because Hispanics HAVE NO national agenda. Neither do Christians.

I never called a child punishment.

Yes, Loca, you did!

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so basically you're saying.....he needs to grow up!!

not just growing up but maturing on his views. I think that is why his polls waiver and he struggles. It is hard for me to imagine anyone want to vote for someone who waivers. You don't know what he'll do. He 'seemed' to be more moderate than Hillary (which isn't necessarily saying anything) which at first had my interest. Since then I have not seen him be a man of conviction. Hillary is very much a socialist and THAT FRIGHTENS ME!

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When a preacher preaches that God has abandoned America because of lesbians, I don't think that's treating lesbians (also children of God) with dignity.

When a member of the left calls the victims of 9-11 "Little Eichmanns", are we then to infer that all the members of the left believe the same thing?

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

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When a preacher preaches that God has abandoned America because of lesbians, I don't think that's treating lesbians (also children of God) with dignity.

First off this isn't true. The whole "Truth War" sermon is about the possibility of God abandoning America because she left God behind. The wide acceptance of homosexuality by a society or any sexual immorality taking center stage is not the cause but the consequence of that action. When we leave God and his principles then we turn to these other things.

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