We no longer have Illegal Immigrants in the US.

At least not according to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid

Well, this is the first time I have seen where there was a bill in the Gov’t that did not pass yet the end result was somehow still achieved. Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader, made a comment on the news where he called the illegal immigrants “undocumented Americans”. Wow, now they are Americans? Undocumented? How does that work? How can you be a citizen (cause being called an American on American soil means you are a citizen right?) of the US, within the US borders and be undocumented? Is that like losing your license, birth certificate and social security card all at the same time? Oh, so many questions and not enough answers. Someone please explain to me how is this possible. Cause I am just at a lost.
25,988 views 84 replies
Reply #1 Top
why didn't you comment on that when bush said it in 2000? too busy trashing al gore to notice?

Jun 26, 2000.... Immigration is not a problem to be solved, it is the sign of a successful nation. New Americans are to be welcomed as neighbors and not to be feared as strangers.
Reply #2 Top
Jim Reed, Senate Majority Leader...

It's Harry Reid (D-Nevada).

...made a comment on the news where he called the illegal immigrants “undocumented Americans”.

That is rich. Best beware, before we all become "undocumented Canadians" who just haven't snuck across the border yet.

This is pandering to the highest degree. They want so desperately to make these illegal immigrants into good registered Democrats that they will use any and all wordplay to justify their position.
Reply #3 Top
This is pandering to the highest degree. They want so desperately to make these illegal immigrants into good registered Democrats that they will use any and all wordplay to justify their position.


ya'll didn't mind when it was george pandering for them...

Monday, Jun. 19, 2000 By JAMES CARNEY AND JOHN F. DICKERSON/WASHINGTON

George Bush--all three generations of him--wants to woo Hispanic voters. Scarcely a week goes by when the Texas Governor--George W.--isn't hola-ing and comos estas-ing his way through a Hispanic community center or a classroom filled with Hispanic children. And late last week in New York City, his campaign released its first television ads of the general election--ads starring GEORGE P. BUSH, the candidate's charismatic 23-year-old Mexican-American nephew, in a direct pitch to New York's Puerto Rican voting bloc. The star turn will not be his last. "You're going to be seeing a lot more of him," beams a campaign adviser.

Even George H.W. Bush--the patriarch of the namesakes--is getting into the swing of things. Sources tell TIME that the former President, who once famously referred to his Mexican-American grandchildren, including George P., as "the little brown ones," recently urged his son's campaign to hold a national Hispanic event aimed at luring Hispanics away from the Democrats.
Reply #4 Top
why didn't you comment on that when bush said it in 2000?

I can't speak for Charles, but for myself: I voted for McCain in 2000. And I wasn't blogging yet.

Immigration is not the problem here. ILLEGAL immigration is the problem we are facing. I embrace "New Americans" and indeed welcome them as neighbors... as long as they went through the immigration process. It's the highest compliment that we have so many who want to be Americans. However, if they are criminals who snuck into my country then they are to be feared as strangers because I do not want criminals around me or my family.

This is ridiculous -- one side is trying so hard to vilify the other that it's impossible to have a conversation.
Reply #5 Top
It's Harry Reid (D-Nevada).


Sorry, I just happen to have a co-worker called Jim reed and I got confused. LOL.
Reply #6 Top
why didn't you comment on that when bush said it in 2000? too busy trashing al gore to notice?

Jun 26, 2000.... Immigration is not a problem to be solved, it is the sign of a successful nation. New Americans are to be welcomed as neighbors and not to be feared as strangers.


First off I didn't know he said that. Second I say the same to him as well. They are not Americans, I am. I was born here, I work here, I pay taxes here. Stop trying to justify your crying by pointing at other people doing the same as if I would allow anyone to do it. They are not Americans, they are illegals. I don't care who says otherwise. Happy?
Reply #7 Top
I can't speak for Charles, but for myself: I voted for McCain in 2000.


mccain...who's for the immigration bill as well?

And on dec 9th of 1999, the candidate (bush) said this...

I believe it is far more compassionate to turn away people at the border than to attempt to find and arrest them once they are living in our country illegally.

And before the people re-elected him again in 2004, his stance had not changed...from january 2004...

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush will outline an immigration reform proposal Wednesday that would allow workers in the United States illegally to join a new temporary worker program and not lose their jobs, administration officials said.


This is ridiculous -- one side is trying so hard to vilify the other that it's impossible to have a conversation


what is ridiculous is this all of a sudden "outcry" after the political environment and seats of power changed. and even more ridiculous is the feeble defense of the very policies your guy was pushing in both of his election campaign. you either liked or stood silent on the "pandering" when it was bush pandering for hispanic votes, but now it's a high crime that needs to be villified.

and what is more ridiculous is that we don't have the spine to enforce the 86 laws, which go after the employers. instead we are encouraging our reps to sign either the proposed legislation or another "hard line" legislation plan...both of which have the same result...the employers who have committed the FELONIES will be given total amnesty for 21 years of blatant crime. and the poor MISDEMEANOR committing impovershed minorities will be punished for trying to feed their family. one plan offers a reward if that punishment is accepted and adhered to, the other does not. that's the only difference.

either way, the only amnesty being given is to the employers who finance re-election campaigns.

maybe you missed my article on the subject SD, it was on the front page of JU. you can read it here...


WWW Link

or a previous article...WWW Link
Reply #8 Top
Let's get one thing straight here Sean. I'm not here to defend the Republicans or the President everytime they do something stupid. I am a Centrist that leans more Republican, I want laws, rules, regulations and policies that will make this country a better place, that will allow Americans to better themselves without being dependent of the Gov't itself, that can help those who seem helpless to become part of this society and contribute to the bettering of this nation. I want our children to have a good education, to be able to go outside and have fun without having to fear child predators, drunk drivers, bullies, terrorist, gangs, etc. I will fight for the policies that I feel will give me what I want, what I think is best for this country, I don't care if the person who wrote the bill is Republican, Democrat, Conservative, Liberal, Man, Woman, Black, Mulsim or even born in another country.

We may all want to think that doing the right thing will bring us closer to a better living in this world and while it's all find and dandy and I like the concept; we all have to see the reality of this world for what it is. Not everyone wants a free world, not everyone believes simple people should have a say in the matters of their country, not everyone thinks that other religions besides theirs is acceptable, not everyone thinks everything can be solved by sitting down and talking. We must be able to deal with every single one of these situations in the best way we can but we will have to also except that the right way may not always be the best way or only way to reach our goal. Survival, cause in the end it's all about survival, and money but everyone knows that already, right?
Reply #9 Top
Dude, Sean... you need to take a break from the keyboard and get some fresh air. Zen, dude... breathe. Gotta take time for yourself and not get wrapped around the pole.

maybe you missed my article on the subject SD

I read your article, I replied to your article. I don't see why you're getting all bent outta shape over this. The immigration reform bill being pushed through the Senate is unpalatable as written. It creates so many problems within our country that we haven't even done all the research yet on its total impact. Politicians create bad legislation all the time. My biggest laugh was the bald-faced pandering that Reid was doing in regards to all those new Democrats he's having a wet dream for. Which was the point of Charles' article.

As for pandering, maybe politicians do it all the time. Both sides of the aisle.

As for 86 laws, I agree that they need to be enforced. Coming from Arizona, I saw illegal immigrants all the time, lived around them, etc. It's tough for them because they can't learn the language fast enough, can't get their basic needs met because they come to this country dirt-poor and destitute. I agree with Bush when he said it's more compassionate to keep them from coming than to boot them out after they're here.

But that wasn't the point of this article.
Reply #10 Top
I say we round em up and use em for target practice, dress em in Terrorist outfits put them in mock up middle eastern villages and have our recruits get real time training, killing them.. solves the immigration problem, trains our military. Damn I am a genius!!
Reply #11 Top
ya'll didn't mind when it was george pandering for them...


There you go again........

Not all Hispanics are mexican. Not all Mexicans are illegals. And not all illegals are Mexican or hispanic.

There are roughly 40 million AMERICAN hispanics in this country. Most were born here, and some have acquired citizenship. They are not part of the 12 million ILLEGAL aliens that are the focus (but many are trying to make them not the focus) of the current debate and legislation.
Reply #12 Top
Not all Hispanics are mexican. Not all Mexicans are illegals. And not all illegals are Mexican or hispanic.


i know that guy...but look anywhere this is being discussed. it is all about the "mexicans." some are at least courteous enough to use a more generic term like "latino."

and immigration was never a problem when it was europeans comin thru canada cause they couldn't get into ellis. in fact, reagan increased the number of irish immigrants we would accept when he was president so they wouldn't have to go thru canada.
Reply #13 Top
I say we round em up and use em for target practice, dress em in Terrorist outfits put them in mock up middle eastern villages and have our recruits get real time training, killing them.. solves the immigration problem, trains our military. Damn I am a genius!!


LOL, leave it to MM to come up with a swift and easy way to solve a problem that will serve more than one purpose.
Reply #14 Top
And on dec 9th of 1999, the candidate (bush) said this...

I believe it is far more compassionate to turn away people at the border than to attempt to find and arrest them once they are living in our country illegally.

And before the people re-elected him again in 2004, his stance had not changed...from january 2004...


OK, I think you are starting to nit-pick here now. I agree with Bush that it is easier to stop them from coming than it is to deport all 12 million plus back to where they came from, that doesn't mean make them legal immigrants in 1 day over all those legal immigrants who have waited for years, paid thousands of dollars, have needed countless legal papers and have been a great example of people worth making citizens, Emperor of Ice Cream is the best example of that. To do such a thing as this bill wanted would have been like me taking all of his money and then giving him the finger and that is not what this country should be about.

what is ridiculous is this all of a sudden "outcry" after the political environment and seats of power changed. and even more ridiculous is the feeble defense of the very policies your guy was pushing in both of his election campaign. you either liked or stood silent on the "pandering" when it was bush pandering for hispanic votes, but now it's a high crime that needs to be villified.


You really need to lay off the caffeine. You almost sound like you gonna burst a blood vessle or something. Stop acting as if these kinds of things don't happen on both sides of the field. No matter how many times it may have been mentioned nothing ever happend during his first 6 years about this idea of his. Now all of a sudden it seems as if it would really happen and people became loud enough to make sure it didn't. We didn't have to be that loud before. Keep in mind we don't always vote for someone because we agree with everything he/she says. Man get a grip for once.
Reply #15 Top
ps- I've commented about 40-50 times today, on at least a dozen different threads, but i'm certain this single remark aimed in your direction will quickly be labeled as 'obsession.' that's getting old, too.)


protest if you must...but the obsession is clear

At least Col Gene has the goddamned decency to confine this crap to his own blog, and doesn't wander around trolling for opposition


yes,,,you might learn from that.

Maybe they IGNORED your article on the subject, Sean


actually he commented on it before, and i forgot about that (and my apologies SD) ...oops. but regardless, you're wrong again ... and obviously just trying to spread more filth and lies   





Reply #16 Top
You really need to lay off the caffeine. You almost sound like you gonna burst a blood vessle or something. Stop acting as if these kinds of things don't happen on both sides of the field. No matter how many times it may have been mentioned nothing ever happend during his first 6 years about this idea of his. Now all of a sudden it seems as if it would really happen and people became loud enough to make sure it didn't. We didn't have to be that loud before. Keep in mind we don't always vote for someone because we agree with everything he/she says. Man get a grip for once.


actaully no charles, but thanks for the concern, lol...perhaps i am a bit harsh there, but fear not, my vessels are just fine, lol. but i do have a problem with the republicans remaining silent when it was used to try to pander away votes from the other side, and only gets vocal when the bill becomes reality. i think it's very telling of a party that calls itself the "party of principle." that isn't principle to me. and it is a charge republicans typically make of others...especially in the last several years.

btw, i've been toying with the idea of going to either audio or video blogging so people can hear the tone in my voice to provide greater context. i think some read my stuff way too "sternly" in here...but that's a lot more work than just typin out some stuff when i'm at the computer anyway usually. if i can arrange the time, maybe...we'll see...i have the stuff to do it...just don't know if i have the time / energy.

oh, and btw,,,i don't drink coffee, lol. ...maybe i should start to pull off the above project, lol.
Reply #17 Top

actaully no charles, but thanks for the concern, lol...perhaps i am a bit harsh there, but fear not, my vessels are just fine, lol. but i do have a problem with the republicans remaining silent when it was used to try to pander away votes from the other side, and only gets vocal when the bill becomes reality. i think it's very telling of a party that calls itself the "party of principle." that isn't principle to me. and it is a charge republicans typically make of others...especially in the last several years.

No, you have made up your mind, and regardless of what anyone says, you are going to pigeon hole them based upon your mis-conception.  There is no explaining to you as you are incapable of seeing that perhaps you are wrong about people, and that they MUST conform to your own misconceptions.  In that respect, you are like Col Gene.  You dont debate the person or what they say, you debate what you want them to say, and how you feel they should react or have reacted.  regardless of reality.

Reply #19 Top
You'll forgive me if I am growing a tad annoyed with this constant need to defend a title that 99.9% of people don't really do anything to achieve. We were lucky enough to be born here. I have mixed feelings about immigration, and I don't think anyone has a decent answer that both works ethically and would work in reality.

But, I don't think anything is served by all this worrying about what names and titles people use. If we want to be taken seriously about immigration we need to stop all this junk about how our culture is under attack, etc., and just deal with the basic fact of immigration; why it doesn't work, what can make it work.

It isn't the 'building a wall' thing that really annoys people, it is what that wall stands for. We look down our noses at the French for all their cultural protectionist crap. Can't we just come to some conclusion about how to protect our borders and create a fair immigration system without all this nitpicking about words ideals?
Reply #20 Top
actaully no charles, but thanks for the concern, lol...perhaps i am a bit harsh there, but fear not, my vessels are just fine, lol. but i do have a problem with the republicans remaining silent when it was used to try to pander away votes from the other side, and only gets vocal when the bill becomes reality. i think it's very telling of a party that calls itself the "party of principle." that isn't principle to me. and it is a charge republicans typically make of others...especially in the last several years.


Again you continue to talk about things as if the Democrats are free of error. Sean, you really need to stop waging this war against a mirror. The Democrats are no angels in this country, they have been known to ignore the wants of the people, to make bad decisions, to be corrupted, to fail to stick to the agenda they pushed during their campaigns. Wanna talk about "the party of principle"? How's about the party for the poor, last I checked a party who depends on poor people to vote for them will not really try to raise their standards of living, that would them lead them to vote Republican since they would no longer be poor. Not my kind of party where it benefits them to keep poor people poor in order to have large voting numbers.

Keep in mind that the Democrats didn't win the 2006 elections cause they were a better choice, it's because they were the only other choice.
Reply #21 Top
btw, i've been toying with the idea of going to either audio or video blogging so people can hear the tone in my voice to provide greater context. i think some read my stuff way too "sternly" in here...but that's a lot more work than just typin out some stuff when i'm at the computer anyway usually. if i can arrange the time, maybe...we'll see...i have the stuff to do it...just don't know if i have the time / energy.


That would seem like a great idea. I'm not sure I'd be too good at making audio or video articles, I am a bit shy in person. But you never know.
Reply #22 Top
You'll forgive me if I am growing a tad annoyed with this constant need to defend a title that 99.9% of people don't really do anything to achieve. We were lucky enough to be born here.


I would like to know what exactly do you mean when you say "a title that 99.9% of people don't really do anything to achieve". Further more I would also like to understand what you meant when you said "We were lucky enough to be born here".

You seem to think that the US somehow was, all this time, a great nation that created itself without the help of any humans and that somehow all of us just happen to be born here and enjoy some or most of the great things this country has to offer. Let's get one thing straight here Baker, I work hard, I work a minimum of 40 hours a week, at times I have worked 60. Day in and day out, I have paid my taxes, paid my bills, obeyed the laws, contributed to charity and have made sure my kids have a good enough education to make them better people so we can have a chance to have a better future. Compared to how other countries in the world are, yes I do consider myself lucky to have been born in this great nation, but I will not allow anyone (including you) to tell me that I somehow do not deserve to call myself an American. I may not have signed up for the Armed Forces and may not have put my life on the line to defend the freedoms we enjoy in this country, but I have no problem pointing out that is was my sweat and blood and the sweat and blood of many of those who did not sign up for the Armed Forces and put their lives on the line that paid for those uniforms, boots, training and some of the most powerful weapons ever created. It was people like me that made it possible for this country to be what it is today, even if it's not at it's greatest at the moment it's still one of the best. I am an American, whether I was born here, immigrated here and became a citizen or came on a ship from an exploding planet and the yellow sun gave me super powers. Everything I do I do it for my country and for my family.

I have mixed feelings about immigration, and I don't think anyone has a decent answer that both works ethically and would work in reality.

But, I don't think anything is served by all this worrying about what names and titles people use. If we want to be taken seriously about immigration we need to stop all this junk about how our culture is under attack, etc., and just deal with the basic fact of immigration; why it doesn't work, what can make it work.


If there was a single solution that it was both ethical and worked in reality, this would be a perfect world. I would think that by now everyone in this country would know that sometimes sacrifices have to be made and that you can't always have your cake and eat it too. I consider it stupid to allow a problem to grow simply because a solution that would satify everyone 100% can not be achieved. How can one punish a person for a crime if the punishment is seen as harsh? Hello!!! I thought the point of the punishment was to be harsh to prove a point to stop criminals from repeating themselves. You can't put someone behind bars with the intentions of taking away all the things a free man would be able to enjoy in a free country only to have all of those comforts be brought to them inside the jail.

You may not think the name thing is important, but as i have said before not everyone thinks democracy is good, not everyone thinks womens rights are good, not everyone thinks vanilla icecream is good. It is what it is; a drunk driver is not a not sober enough driver, a prostitute is not an off camera porn star and an illegal immigrant is not and undocumented American. In this world names can mean the differnec between going to jail or being able to sue, between going to jail or getting paid legally, being a criminal or just not having any documents at the moment.

If I just happen to lose my documents (birth certificate, social security card and license) due to, say, a fire, a flood or a home invasion and a a INS officer just happens to stop me because I look hispanic (since I am). Would that make me an illegal immigrant or an undocumented American? How can I prove to him I am a citizen before I get taken away?

It isn't the 'building a wall' thing that really annoys people, it is what that wall stands for. We look down our noses at the French for all their cultural protectionist crap. Can't we just come to some conclusion about how to protect our borders and create a fair immigration system without all this nitpicking about words ideals?


Sure we could, in a perfect world. But again we are not perfect. OK let's see if this makes sense to you. Imagine you lived on an island with 1000 people and your island has a eco system that could maintain 3000 people for thousands of years. Outside of this island are 20 islands where 1000 people on each living but their eco systems can only maintain 600 people. Sure the first island would be nice enough to allow others from the other 20 islands to come over since they have more than enough for themselves, but they have an immigration process that only allows to have some many people over at any given time to avoid exceeding the limit of the eco system and to keep out unwanted people who could abuse the system. But imagine if they would just let everyone in without a care. Imagine all those 400 people from each of the 20 islands that exceed the limit of their island's eco system and are staving were to all move to that first island because they all think there is enough since they have more thn they need but do not consider that others from the other islands may go there as well. That would be 8000 immigrants moving to an island that only had 1000 people and could only sustain 3000 people. What do you think will happen to the people on that island?

Now imagine making it easier for immigrants from Mexico to cross into the US because we just want to be fair and share what we have. Imagine all those who think they could do better in the US cause we have a system that helps those who can't help themselves unlike their country. Imagine having possibly 3 times as many immigrants crossing the border in less than a year looking to benefit from that which those who were born here and have worked hard to earn a living or those who endured the long process, paid thousands of dollars and have been scrutinized over and over just to make sure they are really commited who have also worked hard to make a living; or even worse take the jobs from those who have them now just because they are willing to work for less since less is still a lot more than they had before. In my opinion that will be the end of our society. Something I am not willing to accept or allow.
Reply #23 Top
I would like to know what exactly do you mean when you say "a title that 99.9% of people don't really do anything to achieve". Further more I would also like to understand what you meant when you said "We were lucky enough to be born here".


Exactly what I said. They day you were born you were an American. All the long workweeks, etc., thereafter didn't have a thing to do it. I didn't do a thing to decide where I was born. That's what I mean by "lucky".

"Compared to how other countries in the world are, yes I do consider myself lucky to have been born in this great nation, but I will not allow anyone (including you) to tell me that I somehow do not deserve to call myself an American."


I didn't say you couldn't call yourself that, I simply said that you really didn't do anything to earn the title. Some people seem to think it is some label of quality or idealism that we can't allow to be watered down. In reality, prisons are full of "Americans", and someone who has worked here for ten years and contributed to their community is deemed unworthy of the title.

If I had to choose between the illegal working 12 hour days nailing shingles, and the guy sitting in jail for molesting kids, I'd rather associate the former with the label "American" than the latter. If we are going to start being picky about who uses our "brand", then we really ought to look at how much of a slipshod manner we use to hand it out, and the standards we have to keep it.

If we are going to allow people who are born here to rape, murder, steal, etc., all their lives, and then call them Americans, well, how much does the name really mean? If you guys are concerned with the devaluing of the moniker, maybe there are bigger issues to address than illegals.

"Now imagine making it easier for immigrants from Mexico to cross into the US because we just want to be fair and share what we have."


And there's your problem. You act like it is charity. In reality we beg them to come here. Every other million dollar home in LA is staffed by illegals. Most of your fruit was probably picked by illegals. The roofing industry would basically cease to exist in most of the US without illegals.

So this charity stuff is bunk. If we don't like them being here, then we need to stop the people who invite them here and pay them money to be here. If we aren't willing to do that because we like our fruit and roofing jobs cheap, then we need to shut up and stop being hypocrites.

Reply #24 Top
At least Col Gene has the goddamned decency to confine this crap to his own blog, and doesn't wander around trolling for opposition


yes,,,you might learn from that.


So might you.
Reply #25 Top
I didn't say you couldn't call yourself that, I simply said that you really didn't do anything to earn the title. Some people seem to think it is some label of quality or idealism that we can't allow to be watered down. In reality, prisons are full of "Americans", and someone who has worked here for ten years and contributed to their community is deemed unworthy of the title.

If I had to choose between the illegal working 12 hour days nailing shingles, and the guy sitting in jail for molesting kids, I'd rather associate the former with the label "American" than the latter. If we are going to start being picky about who uses our "brand", then we really ought to look at how much of a slipshod manner we use to hand it out, and the standards we have to keep it.


Therein lies the problem.....neither did they. Working 12 hours a day doesn't mean a thing if they're here illegally.