The Master Debate

Lets all quit beating around the bush..

from WinCustomize Forums
With any luck, the title of the post brought forth'e a few snickers and thus led you here to "Parcipitate" in this discussion. So, here we go..

No beating around the bush part:
Gef just uploaded a new Master DX Theme and is beginning to take heat because of it.
Accusations are running amok concerning Master submissions now.

The 2 sides of the argument (this here is the debate part) are:
A) " Since so and so reached a Master status, they don't put out anything for free anymore "

B) " Who cares, they have worked hard for that right and the end result will in turn dictate weather or not they made a correct decision to do this."

I myself see both sides of the coin on the issue and am kind of in the middle at the moment. Honestly, I do get a little dissappointed when I see exclusive Master content by someone though. On the other hand, it's not a bank breaking investment to buy them either. Hell, I just bought World of Warcraft, plus the expansion pack for $60, and will be shelling out $15 a month to be able to use my $60 initial investment.

The end conclusion... I don't really care! If I like it, and want it, I will buy it.
skinning
13,908 views 63 replies
Reply #1 from WinCustomize Forums Top
There was never any expectation/duty for anybody to create a skin, free or otherwise, so that first argument doesn't hold much water with me...

Both the community and the actual technology is dynamic - there will likely always be enthusiasts who create skins for a variety of reasons. As long as information & support continues to trickle down from those with experience, I see no reason why those that have put in the time, and learnt their craft, shouldn't benefit from it.

It's going to be about generosity of spirit more than anything else I think. So I reckon be positive - it doesn't cost anything and crushing artists spirits does not better skins make.

Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Nothing against Gef or anybody else it's just an opinion...Everybody has one..  
DeskScapes - Bring your desktop background to life.
Reply #3 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Great title   and...

If I like it, and want it, I will buy it.


Pretty much sums it up for me.   
Reply #4 from WinCustomize Forums Top
My thoughts: They have got the right (and it's deserved in regarding of all the work they made/make) to skin for sales.
If I like it, and want it, I will buy it.

i agree and it's really the case here.

I know all the work a good DXtheme need (i'm gonna to talk about what i know) and Gef has made many others free dxthemes and all are good, sorry all are the best.
Who can tell me it's not normal to use a right and more when since many years they help others and make a lot of work (free) for others.
Don't forget the money put every years in DX and the time that need, and all of that to share with others people.

And it seems the same for others.

Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top
If Stardock can succeed in making skinning a viable business opportunity for skinners, I am all in favor of it as I have been since the beginning. Meanwhile, we all get the enjoyment of watching future master prospects demonstrating their fine community spirit and proper supportive behavior. Wouldn't want to blow that opportunity now would we?
Reply #6 from WinCustomize Forums Top
From now on I'm keeping my opinions to myself.....You guys just take things way to serious...
Reply #7 from WinCustomize Forums Top
From now on I'm keeping my opinions to myself.....


Why? Your opinion is as important as any other Richard.
Reply #8 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Richard,
I didn't bring this to light to single you out. It was another comment that pissed me off.

wtf i gotta buy this ?

damn forget it

Reply #9 from WinCustomize Forums Top
omg , just noticed second line of Post Title..

Classic!   

From now on I'm keeping my opinions to myself.....You guys just take things way to serious...

I took your opinion as being serious also in gef's submission thread, you must expect people will take it seriously especially when it concerns their potential income earning potential. Especially when they have already provided a plethora of free skins for use to the public beforehand. To me , griping about someone making their proverbial buck seems rather ungrateful and smacks of entitlement at face value. Maybe your comment didn't mean as much to you as it means to others, sometimes when speaking people seems to forget that their words can do more damage than intented. I know.. Ive guilty of it too.

Seems like a fair Point - Counterpoint discussion however. Maybe it can all get settled here??

  Not likely eh?
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

Skinners aren't slaves.

To me, that is the only issue.

And to have become a Master, a skinner has to have contributed a LOOOOOOT to the community over a considerable period of time.

Users have no right to demand that other people make things for them for free. If someone likes what they see and it costs money, then pay for it. Otherwise, don't.

Obviously I hope that Masters will continue to release lots of free stuff too. But that is up to them.

Reply #12 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Obviously I hope that Masters will continue to release lots of free stuff too. But that is up to them.


i agree with that
Reply #14 from WinCustomize Forums Top
btw , I'll mention right now i HATE "Access denied" when trying to edit a post.   
Reply #15 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think they have every right to make money at skinning if they can. But I also think if they are going to charge for it they should come up with something new. Especially in the DX area. It's the same old package just new wrapping. Same old weather, mini search, meters, calender. and part of a DXplayer. But if a person is willing to pay just to get different graphics well that's up to them. If your upset because they don't do it for free any more then live with what is free or learn to make your own.
Reply #16 from WinCustomize Forums Top
He's been active here since 2001.
He's a Master...he earned it.
He's made close to or over 100 skins for free.
He's entitled.
Reply #17 from WinCustomize Forums Top
He's been active here since 2001.
He's a Master...he earned it.
He's made close to or over 100 skins for free.
He's entitled.


eh Po' you forget the help he provide to people.
It's by him i have learn how make a DXtheme in resolution independent.
I just ask him and he give me a link to learn that
Gef is really a master
Reply #18 from WinCustomize Forums Top
But I also think if they are going to charge for it they should come up with something new. Especially in the DX area. It's the same old package just new wrapping. Same old weather, mini search, meters, calender. and part of a DXplayer.

My thoughts as i said under Gef's posted theme, as for the first post sayin Gef is takin heat for it..so what??, there's about 4 so called master skins that has been posted and they are the damn same as the last as Murex said and i have. Surely people aint that stupid as not to see that? Also i'd like to add that Gef is brilliant no doubt prob the best goin, but So called master skins need to be new, fresh and totally diff from the last 4 or 5, make money as much as you can, but don't think that we are all a bit blind.
Reply #19 from WinCustomize Forums Top
My opinion, I am thankful for free skins but I think every ARTIST that works hard and produces something that is pleasing to the eye, ear, or nose deserves to be paid in some way or another. Be it cash money or a goat.(you know, whatever) The problem is, is it pleasing to you before you buy it. With skins its sometimes hard to tell. I would not complain if all skins were paid for and the money went to the authors.

Richard Mohler, I did not read the post that you are referring to but your opinion matters very much. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Bet I get some rant for mine.
Reply #20 from WinCustomize Forums Top
but So called master skins need to be new, fresh and totally diff from the last 4 or 5,


You must live in that perfect world the rest of us have been looking for , the one with the girls that always say yes and a real breakfast with sausage eggs and bacon every morning served by your mortal enemy wearing a dunce hat and calling you Sir.  

Like Zubaz said, the free market will decide if what is being done will succeed or not and until you can walk a mile in his shoes, or at least buy his shoes your not in any position to dictate his methods. I think we will find different artists will progress in different directions with pay skins. I know I intend to

Its a fairly new aspect to skinning and was bound to draw criticism but it really does boil down to dont like.. dont buy.
Reply #21 from WinCustomize Forums Top
You must live in that perfect world the rest of us have been looking for


Well like Richard Mohler says it's my opinion, i know it to be true, so i stand by it, i dont care if anyone rants on at me, i got big broad shoulders You may think it's a perfect world, but if i made you a website lookin the like your competitors you'd be pretty miffed yes? I know you all love Gef, but so do i, i think he's brilliant, but at this moment i also think he's hittin a rut on designing something fresh, and totally diff from the last 4 or 5 skins lookin like Metal Vista, Aero Extreme, Customize and Blue State, they all look the same, or work from the same concept, sorry to be blunt and honest about it, but thats how i see it, i have been guilty of it myself in web design, you sorta stick with what you know cos you know it works, sometimes it's hard to branch out and be radical. I bought his Dx Pda one cos i thought it was differnt and compact so i do support him. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, with out it we would all be as boring as eachother.
Reply #22 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'll Swap you a WB for an equally good site   
Reply #23 from WinCustomize Forums Top

It's entirely the perogative of the Master skinner to determine which skin he will wish to sell vs which will be free.  If there is a perception that a Premium skin is very similar to one of their free ones...then do the clever thing....dl and use the free one.

If a master determines a similar ver saleable... that similarity may affect sales...so he'll perhaps be more creative/new next time.

So, they do NOT 'need to be new, fresh...etc'.

 

Now to specifics....it's totally offside to be pointing at Gef, singling him out for disdain/dissatisfaction.

Precious-few people have done MORE than he has, and he thoroughly deserves his opportunity to see a return for all his past input/effort.

 

Threads such as this, raising concerns/debate about the concept of Masters/skin sales, etc....more sensibly should avoid specific example as it is decidedly unfair on those inadvertently caught in the spotlights...

Reply #24 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Going back through the comments on most of the master level blinds and DX themes, you can easily see it is a small small percentage of individuals complaining about it. The excuses vary from "I'm not paying unless I try it first" to "I'm not buying skins anymore because I keep losing them." We won't go in to the political correctness of bullshit right now, but rather save that for a more entertaining episode of "Paint-On Place" (Ya gotta be old to catch that one).

It's funny, I bet if you went to a site called masters.wincustomize.comor something similar as the only avenue for Master content, these people would quit complaining. (an option I would NOT be in favor of). It's the mixing of the freebies and the payme's that some minds cannot separate without severe drool bucket overload.  

Reply #25 from WinCustomize Forums Top
If there is a perception that a Premium skin is very similar to one of their free ones...then do the clever thing....dl and use the free one.


omg.     

...and EXCELLENT post Phoon.