Paladin 77 According to Bush they have made several attempts to attack the U.S. since 9/11. We have improved our defense but the fact remains that al Qaeda is still planning and attempting those attacks. We have not destroyed their ability to plan attacks. We have improved our ability to thwart them. The problem is that we must be successful EVERY time. All they need to do is be successful one time to give us another 9/11.

Give it a rest col. Attemps are NOT sucessful are they? Otherwise they would be called attacks and not attemps. Secondly there is NO WAY to stop them from planning. All it takes is ONE person to devise a plan. Not unless we kill EACH & EVERY ONE of them. Is that what you want. You think the US has a bad rep now, just think what it would be after such a killing spree.

Island Dog OUR intelligence agencies have said the Iraq war has made us less safe BY CREATING MORE ENEMIES LIKE THE ONES THAT ATTACKED US ON 9/11. How is that making us safer?

PURE OPINION! It's not based in fact. It's based on what they "assume" is/is going to happen. And you know what happens when you "assume" something.

Because they are focused on attacking us in Iraq and in Afghanistan.  Fighting terrorism no matter if it's in Iraq, Iran, Syria, or Afghanistan will make people "mad" and create more enemies in the short term.  That's what happens when you are fighting a war against an extremist religion.

Using capital letters doesn' make your post any different col.  Islamists already attacked the WTC in '93, various embassy bombings, Sept. 11, way before Bush made our enemies "mad at us", so your point is well......pointless. 

As an "outsider" I join the debate just to ask a few questions:

* All countries get emotional about their troops being in the firing line. Should we not be divorcing Bush from this emotionality?
* By divorcing Bush we can support our men who are fighting a dirty war right now. Then we can ask: Does Bush have the right to send those men into a "no win" situation?
* If you think he has the right (forget about him being CIC), then you should ask yourself whether he knows that more informed people than he (yes, there are some---some on the ground in Iraq),who seem to think that the Civil War is escalating and the war in Afghanistan is escalating and that the Vietnam scenario is repeating itself i.e. "keep pouring more tea, we'll saturate it with more sugar---we have more sugar than you have tea." Do you avoid this scenario?

* No one has stated that these two wars are a "win-win" situation. Why not?

I'm just asking you to divorce one feeling from another and look at your answer.

drmiler

One sure way to make attacks more likely is to increase the number of people who want to attack us. That is what we have accomplished by invading Iraq. That is what our Intelligence agencies have concluded. 9/11 would have been an attempt if we had acted to stop it. This opinion is that of the 16 Intelligence agencies for which we spend Billions to get that advice. I will take their opinion over you and anyone else on this Blog site!

Islanddog

They were not in Iraq to attack us or anyone else before we invaded Iraq and allowed them to enter the country and set up shop. GOOD WORK Little George!

Bush said we invaded Iraq to depose Saddam and allow the Iraqi people to form their own government. That was done a long time ago. It is time for us to leave. We did what Congress authorized Bush to do and now we must get out!

Col, this is where you need to start reading posts other than yours.  We have shown how terrorists, inclduing al-aqeada were in Iraq and sought refuge from Afghanistan in Iraq. 

Please explain how AQ had a high of 100,000 people before 9/11 and today they claim to have fewer than 80,000 people. Six years and 20,000 less people than they claimed to have had means that we are killing them as fast or faster then they are recruiting.

OOPS

drmiler One sure way to make attacks more likely is to increase the number of people who want to attack us. That is what we have accomplished by invading Iraq. That is what our Intelligence agencies have concluded. 9/11 would have been an attempt if we had acted to stop it. This opinion is that of the 16 Intelligence agencies for which we spend Billions to get that advice. I will take their opinion over you and anyone else on this Blog site!

I "personally" don't care whose you take! Thing is, IT'S STILL AN OPINION!

drmiler

All of what you say is your (Useless) opinion!

drmiler All of what you say is your (Useless) opinion!

No, like you I can present facts in a fashion to back up my position (which I rarely do. so I know it can be done.). So since we both do it the same way, wouldn't you say that makes "your" opinions "just" as worthless as mine?

I just do not go on and on about the same boring things time after time, like you have a tendency to do

drmiler

Your facts come from nickel/dime sources. The data I present come from the foremost experts or official agencies of the Government. It is not my opinions but the opinions and facts from the MOST creditable sources you question!!! All that does is show YOUR IGNORANCE!

I think the situation in Afghanistan is largely the result of slow progress in areas outside the control of the capital. That and NATO's dropping of bombs on civilians, or what turns up often enough, to make headlines, as such. We certainly aren't helping ourselves by doing that over and over.

It is logical to see the Taliban as enemies but really they are just rebels against the government we have sought to have free elections, elected, and installed into Afghanistan.

You guys could really cool off and relax a bit in lieu of this discussion.

I think the Taliban when in power really just wanted to run their own affairs and their only mistake when in power was not to hand over the criminal murders and war starters of AQ that planned and launched attacks for their country.

drmiler Your facts come from nickel/dime sources

AGAIN this is "only" YOUR opinion! And not a very good one at that.

Of course to you they'd be nickel & dime sources. "Any" source that does not conform to your line of thinking would be.

So what is the NYT, dailykos, and nostradomus?

IslandDog

How about GAO. The Treasury, Army War College, Comptroller General, Brookings Institute, OMB, CBO, Census Bureau. I guess those are also Nickle/Dime! What about Gen. Powell, Sec Baker, Greenspan, O'Neil,, Gen Zinni, McCaffery, Shinsecki. More Nickle/Dime sources. You are so full of BS. Anyone that proves Bush does not know what he is doing is just WRONG!

Do you understand that you have been known to slant your "facts" to make your arguement seem valid?  You have a completely one-sided view and you cannot even admit that.  Bush is going to remain in office for the rest of his term, move on with your obsession.

IslandDog


When I post the treasury dept balances for the debt or the annual budget deficit. When I post the trade deficit from the dept of commerce. When I post the studies of the Brookings Institute or the NIE how is that one sided? The problem is this information documents the impact of the Bush policies and they do not look good. That is not my fault or because the information is not accurate. You just do not like what it shows.

When the AP or NYT reports things like the Walter Reed issue or the fact we can account for 9 Billion Dollars in cash we sent to Iraq it is not because they did not accurately report the stories but that it makes Bush look bad.

LOL.  Col, you were showed by several people how you intentionally left out parts of the NIE, and how you ignored parts about Iraq weaons.  Are you seriously going to sit there and say you are objective and that you look at both sides of an issue?  Are you going to sit there and tell me that you are not obsessed with blaming Bush for everything no matter how ridiculous it is?

IslandDog

You do not have to post the entire NIE to see what they concluded about the impact of our invading Iraq. I posted their conclusion which was that our invasion of Iraq has enabled the radical Moslems to recruit more converts that increases the danger and make us LESS SAFE.

I posted the balances of the National debt directly from the Treasury Web Site that clearly shows the debt is growing not getting smaller as Bush claims and the balances do not agree with what Bush reports and you say I am not objective! It has nothing to do with objective. I have posted the information that DOCUMENTS that Bush is not telling us the truth about the debt that people on this web site do not want to admit that Bush has lied about the deficit. I even post the actual Treasury Web Site so anyone can go look at the information! Most of what the Bush supporters post on this web site has nothing to do with facts but BLIND SUPPORT for a President that has FAILED our country!!!!!!!!

I read your opinions of facts you have read, I read your opinions on almost everything, but I don't see the facts that brought you to the wrong conclusions. You point to websites but I can't open them, I don't see the stuff you do. show us all the facts as you see them.

"Bush is going to remain in office for the rest of his term, move on with your obsession."

With any luck, the congress will ensure that American troops don't remain in Iraq that much longer in the numbers they are presently.

So far the President had failed to pull us out of Iraq, even though we have won the war, had a freely elected government elected, searched and verified no usable WMD danger exists, helped to rebuild their country to post war levels and beyond, and now it's time to go, yet we remain with no exit strategy, no exit in sight, and nothing but talk about leaving, Americans are dying daily as are Iraqi's and the only thing that would change upon us leaving would be American's dying in Iraq.

As for Afghanistan, maybe we'll redeploy some troops there and spend more time beating down the Taliban.

Well, the Brits are sending more troops there as we are.

I think there is more popular support for operations in Afghanistan, as the 9/11 attacks originated from there and there doesn't appear to be an occupation the scale of Iraq, or dare I say a miserably failing mess like Iraq's occupation. Just an opinion.