Real news should 'give you pause', true stories should 'give you pause', world events should 'give your pause', but a dramatic/action show on FOX 'gives you pause'? Scary.

I'm a big fan of "24" and it is not a show for the weak minded (i.e. people who will go out an do something stupid because of something portrayed on tv, people who instantly form an opinion just because someone on tv 'said so', and basically anyone who can't think for themselves) Unfortunately, tv doesn't work that way and there will be people who will be 'given pause' by something they see and then will allow that to shape their social/world views. Without processing what they see and forming a rational opinion, they act before thinking. Whether it be on the issue of class, race, looks, etc. some people are undeniably just tv parrots. So the fears of the muslim community can be justified in that sense.

However, "24" has been very diverse in their 'villains' over the seasons, they put up a few public service announcements in its fourth year, and on the "24" message boards I frequent people who are of the lemming persuasion are in the minority.

See Reply #21. Damn WG, I'm one of the people that are fed up with all religion also. I'm ok with people practicing their religion because they feel they MUST be some higher power than mankind. And I fought for 8 years for people to have that freedom (E-5, USMC). But I don't expect to have it forced on me. If you want to worship an idea, go for it, but don't force it on me by telling me I'm imorale and all that because I don't believe in your god (Uncaps for a purpose). I believe that religion is as empty as the o in god. Flog away.

i.e. people who will go out an do something stupid because of something portrayed on tv, people who instantly form an opinion just because someone on tv 'said so', and basically anyone who can't think for themselves

Lots of those out there...there are 2 kinds of people in the world...leaders, and followers. Most people will be followers, because it's easier, and I could not agree more with sViz - anyone who would form such a major opinion of soemthing so important based off a fox tv show needs some help...although I confess, I have never seen the show.(TV is junk food for the brain). These same people probably think that all these "reality" shows popping up on every channel are actually "real"!  I actually ran across a show called "American Princess", which appeared to be selling off a cute blonde to some rich prince somewhere...kinda like a dog and pony show...good god, any more shallow and it'd be transparent! But transparency does not make for good ratings - "reality" and war does..just ask Fox. 
Don't get me wrong - for news, Fox is a perfectly legitimate source, we as watchers have a responsibility to think about what we are being told and shown, and understand the bias from which it comes (I believe that ALL news is biased one way or the other - except Al Jazeera        

Lots of those out there...there are 2 kinds of people in the world...leaders, and followers. Most people will be followers, because it's easier,

Then there's the ChickenHawks who beat their chest and shout, "Yeah, LET's just kill 'em all!"...well, as long as it's not me, my children or my kin doing the fighting.
The last time my son came home from school he was talking about enlisting. EVERY male in my family has served this country since we've been here so I don't object to that but I do love my son and if something were to happen, I'd like to know his life was sacrificed for a truly worthy cause. I'm sorry, I just don't see it here. The base conflict in the region is generational and originally began in the 6th century when Islam split into the Shiite and Sunni denominations of the religion which means there is animosity and hatred so deep rooted we'll never begin to understand the full extent of it. I just don't think bringing a little democracy and "Americanizing" them is going to win "hearts and minds" anytime soon and I don't want to see our kids die in vain...

I doubt that we will EVER win their "hearts and minds"...I must admit, I might have been one of those Hawks in the beginning, but now my son is 5, and my life changed when he was born... I have no desire to miss more of his life, nor do I have any desire to see him off to a stupid, empty war to die in a street of a town whose name he can't pronounce for no good reason...and your right, Nav...we will never understand their conflict. The irony is that most of the younger teen generation in Iraq has no problem being "americanized"...they're good people, and they seem able to merge to 2 cultures together, at least in a way that works for them. It's their fathers and grandfathers that are doing this to the kids...what kind of people would hate SO much as to place an AK or a cell phone into the hands of a 10 year old, and tell them it's the right thing to do?
It seems to me that individual cultures are going to become less important and independent over the next generation as technology and the internet brings us ALL much closer together...one hopes that we can learn to accept each other.  

I live in a Muslim country with low levels of crime, peaceful and friendly citizens and hospitality second to none. Most of the people don't like Americans. Why not? They tell me they don't like Americans because Americans "tar them all with the same brush", i.e. all Muslims are regarded as terrorists. They do not like being compared to terrorists. And, I can tell you,the majority abhor terrorist acts.

As usual, people lose sight of the SOURCE of problems and concentrate solely on the RESULTS of those problems. The Middle East and Mediterranean areas are hotbeds of racism and have been for the rememberable history of mankind. It's NOT going to ever change! Greeks will ALWAYS hate Turks (thanks to Ottoman Empire), Arabs will ALWAYS hate JEWS! There are lots and lots of historical factors that have contributed to both sides of the "problems", pro and con; but, the "problems" are still around aren't they?! And will, I suppose, always be and a television program portraying "evil" as Islamic-like terrorists is just another in a long line of factors contributing to an already existing problem which has no solution. Life has afforded me the opportunity to spend most of that life living in the Middle East and Mediterranean regions and to experience, on a first-hand basis, the struggles of peoples of Greek, Turkish, Arab, Jewish, and Christian descents who, even today, with all the information available, STILL believe in the myths and biases of their forefathers! Some, on all sides, are trying to adapt and change their ways and that, I guess, is a good thing. Others, well, others just are stuck in the ways of the past and there is nothing on the face of this earth that will change their particular bias. All I'd point out is that for Muslims, one of the very first "policies" of the Quran is to "go out and convert the infidel"! Extremeists are just adding the phrase "with prejudice" to the end of that "rule"; but, regardless, the "rule" exists as one of the mainstays of that particular "religion". Christians still maintain the belief that it is up to them to go out and convert the "pagan". Extremeists added "with prejudice" to their doctrine as well and events like the "Crusades" ensued and plagued the area for centuries and is STILL affecting the area today. Go to Beirut and see how well the Lebanese Christians and Lebanese Muslims get along! Actually, just watch CNN, you'll see how well!
Until the world is made of entirely only the "haves", there will ALWAYS be conflict! As Karl Marx once very accurately stated, "religion is the opiate of the people". And it truly is. Look at the Madrasas in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia (where there is ZERO TOLERANCE FOR ANY OTHER RELIGION OR POLITICAL BELIEF), the Gaza Strip, SUDAN, Bangladesh or any other area of the world where POVERTY is KING and you'll immediately see that religion, and only religion is what keeps these people alive/hopeful and is the breeding ground of hatred of the "haves", NOT necessarily because of their beliefs; but, defintely because of their "wealth" relative to the HAVE NOT! It is very, very, easy to make that "have not" believe that strapping a bomb to him/herself and blowing up the "haves" will ENSURE his place in "heaven/Nirvana/or anyother paradise", because, after all, what's he got to live for???? Drug smugglers going into Saudi Arabia from Pakistan and Bangladesh have the same theory. If they get caught, they KNOW the Saudis will behead them on a Friday in the Square! They know this, it is fact!!! They also know that IF they're able to get their drugs in and sold, they'll have more wealth than they could EVER POSSIBLY have in their homeland! So, something to Live for drives them to what they try. Just another form of terrorism! Cause? Poverty and lack of any chance EVER of bettering one's position in the "Haves" world! My firm belief, based on life experience, is that humankind bases most, if not all, of their responses to events as a result of their upbringing, religious belief, homeland, or home area. Failure is inevitable!! Let the terrorists have access to nukes. Let Pakistan and India start a nuclear war because of a "religious" belief. Let Osama Bin Laden become a hero to millions of DIRT-POOR, illiterate, and maleable peoples of the world! Why? Because the end result will be that all of the aforementioned will eventually annihilate ALL of humanity, and, then, and only then, maybe humanity could START OVER and become a place where the beliefs are shared by all, where all people would be equally "wealthy", so there would be no jealousy or envy of the possessions of others. The place could be called "UTOPIA" or NOT!  

Most of the people don't like Americans. Why not? They tell me they don't like Americans because Americans "tar them all with the same brush", i.e. all Muslims are regarded as terrorists.

The funny thing is, due to the Hollywood media, most Americans do not think of Egyptians as Arabs. Too much Omar Sharif?

"They do not like being compared to terrorists. And, I can tell you,the majority abhor terrorist acts."

Just as we don't like being called 'little eichmanns'. When I did a thing on 'Kurtlar Vadisi Irak', Americans felt pretty strongly about it. Is 24 more accurate than 'valley of the wolves'? Probably, but the entertainment industry, and now even the news, is all about handing our preconceptions back to us nicely dramatized.

If Americans didn't have a few of those, Rightwinger wouldn't have asked me if I wondered whether the Muslims in my neighborhood are building bombs. To me, there's no difference between that and asking whether you wonder if the black guy down the street is selling crack or raping white women.

To me, there's no difference between that and asking whether you wonder if the black guy down the street is selling crack or raping white women.

But didn't you know, ALL whites are racist devils, ALL blacks are up to no good, ALL latinos are here illegally, ALL muslims are bomb building terrorists and the list goes on and on in the minds of some. If you don't look like me, think like me, walk or talk like me then you must be the boogeyman in disguise. Good grief!

You gotta love those stereotypes...

@ maggot: Well thought out and written.

steroeotypes tend to be ugly things...anyone think of a "good" stereotype? The only ones that I can come up w/ are that the amish and mennonites around where I live are a honest and peaceful people...but I'm not sure if even that is completely accurate...people are people, regardless of race, religion and/or any other external factors.

You gotta love those stereotypes...

You forgot skinners in there somewhere

Dang, glad you reminded me, Troy...and ALL skinners are unemployed web designers!

I don't believe that everyone hates Americans or America. Really if people asked more in depth questions they would find out that there's a lot more to it. Part of the issue with many people was the "you're with us or against us" comment that in itself is a form of economic terrorism. Many people here in Canada lost jobs at that time because of the ignorance of a few.

What I do know is that over 800 Canadian trained soldiers signed up with US forces. I also know that SJ2 has been active in Iraq just as they were in Bosnia like many US special ops units. What is official and public is often not what is happening behind the scenes. On a regular basis from my American friends I hear of family members/friends and the emotional horrors. One friend's son, a Lt. has done four tours & lost only 8 of his 96 men. From a military perspective this is amazing; however, to him it is unforgivable and he's paying a price with his sleep and soul.

The thing holding back American leadership is also the primary cause of inactivity within the United Nations. All leaders are bound by the laws of their own country. There was no problem reaching consensus on Afghanistan within the UN because direct evidence was there.

If President Bush had made the decision to go to Iraq because of human rights concerns & the many violations of the UN sanctions, it's sad to say but he would easily be impeachable. However, since the decision to go to war was made at the time a defensive action then under the law it's fine.

You forgot skinners in there somewhere

oops!  

To anyone who might be reading this my wish as an American is that you have a long, prosperous and productive life no matter who you are or where you live

If Americans didn't have a few of those, Rightwinger wouldn't have asked me if I wondered whether the Muslims in my neighborhood are building bombs. To me, there's no difference between that and asking whether you wonder if the black guy down the street is selling crack or raping white women.

I make a distinction between race and religion/ideology.

Replace the word Muslim with Nazi and does it seem so implausible?

If President Bush had made the decision to go to Iraq because of human rights concerns & the many violations of the UN sanctions, it's sad to say but he would easily be impeachable. However, since the decision to go to war was made at the time a defensive action then under the law it's fine.

The actual reason the US invaded Iraq was in the resolution that passed congress -- violation of the 1991 cease fire agreement. That's all that was required. It was not considered a defensive action.

If President Bush had made the decision to go to Iraq because of human rights concerns & the many violations of the UN sanctions, it's sad to say but he would easily be impeachable. However, since the decision to go to war was made at the time a defensive action then under the law it's fine.

Actually, no. As long as congress approved it, it is not an impeachable action, regardless of the justification. And Congress did, including the clowns that are now saying they are against it. In the matter of public record, there is no such thing as "take back".

I'm more worried about ignorant fearmongers like Rightwinger than I am 99.999% of the world's muslim population.

After all, who's orders have killed more innocent civilians, Osama bin Laden or George W. Bush?

If you guessed the latter, you'd be right.

Osama bin Laden

Nuff said.

"I make a distinction between race and religion/ideology. Replace the word Muslim with Nazi and does it seem so implausible?"

Would he be wondering if she was caucasian? One of the women I was talking about wasn't even Islamic, she was just an Indian who wears a traditional head covering (no idea what that is called). She was just smart enough to realize that:

dark skin + head covering = Muslim

and

Muslim = terrorist to a lot of people. Sure, the main racism kicks in in the first part, but do you think that Rightwinger, when he wonders what he describes wondering, does he walk up and ask if they are Muslim?

This is a reference to the statement in question this blog

"You hate me, Baker...because I dare to question the motives of a people you, in your vast wisdom, have chosen simply to accept. I resist your supposed logic...your wisdom; I don't just go ahead and accept them simply on the basis of your word, your reasoning. I see what I see, and I don't like it. That pisses you off. The face of Islam you choose to accept is the nice, happy, smiling face of the Westernized women at the bus stop. That's okay....but don't deride me for opting for the hundreds of thousand of chanting, fist-pumping, angry faces I've seen over the years on the news, in violent, flag-burning mobs. While you're chatting with these women, do you wonder what might be going on, or being built, in their husband's basement workshops? Perhaps preached or discussed, in hushed tone, in their mosques? I do. I'm not a dupe. Equivalency and relativism like yours are sapping our will as a people, Baker; it makes us question ourselves and our reasons and actions, and theirs, in a time when there's no room for it. See, I don't blindly trust on the basis of PC and diversity, the way you do. If that makes me a hater....so be it. Feel sorry for me if you like. I don't care. At least no one can compare me to Chamberlain."

Or another of his statements:

"From a post I left on another thread: ~~~You know; that's another reason to look down on this particular division of Islam. I, as a Christian, try to live a decent, loving and peaceful life that will get me to Heaven so I can live forever with Jesus, the Son of God. These Muslim want to kill, maim and die so they can go to their heaven and prong chicks (I'd hope) for all eternity. What high goals. Shows you how repressive and controlling their faith is.~~~ Don't tell me Islam is noble and peaceful. It's a cancer."

Can you really defend that kind of thing, Brad? I think better of you, but then I once thought better of Rightwinger.

The face of Islam you choose to accept is the nice, happy, smiling face of the Westernized women at the bus stop. That's okay....but don't deride me for opting for the hundreds of thousand of chanting, fist-pumping, angry faces I've seen over the years on the news, in violent, flag-burning mobs.

Oh my...
The "news" shows you what they want you to see...

When you step that far beyond Bush, O'Reilly, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, who do you find yourself standing out there with? Do you want to be out there in the same group with them? I sure wouldn't.