They aren't. Not at all. I don't know how much personal experience with Europe and in Europe you have, but saying that we're so politically similar is really funny with regards to what's going on over here. I guess that European political diversity simply isn't an interesting topic for the average US news report - not that I'd blame them for it. In fact, having a political system with basically only two major parties (although not homogeneous, of course) seems just a little similar to me.

My opinion is based on talking daily (even presently as I type this) to Europeans who have said as much.

So what diversity is there then? Educate me.  Seriously.

Poll after poll that I've seen on the issues that at least I'm interested in show Europeans in profound agreement.

For example, Europeans overwhelmingly support the government providing healthcare. They overwhelmingly support hte government redistributing wealth.  They overwhelmingly support the government reducing income imbalance.  They are overwhelmingly secular. They overwhelmingly have he same views on foreign policy. They overwhelmingly are against GM foods.

So what diversity are you speaking of? A question of how much money to transfer from one person to another isn't diversity IMO.

 

Nearly everyone is thinking about themselves or "issues" they care about. Funny, that's common prejudice about US Americans in Europe... Europeans travel to other European countries which is akin to Americans traveling to other states. I don't think it is. Visit Norway, Romania and then Spain to get an impression. Does Europe still make anything? According to Wikipedia, the EU's GDP was higher than the US' in 2005. (Granted - EU population is higher as well, thus GDP per capita is lower.) Germany alone is the largest exporter of goods in the world. Sounds like there are interesting products after all.

Where to start..

Europeans have a lot of opinions. I provided evidence to support my opinion (or at least a rationale). What is the European rationale for thinking that individual Americans only think of themselves?  Americans individually give far more time to charity, volunteer far more time to ohters. Heck, they give a lot more blood than Europeans. 

What do you think is the European cause for not reproducing? YOu don't think it could just possibly be because Europeans don't want to spend time and effort on other things other than their personal enjoyment of life? Do you have an alternative explaination?

My statement about visiting different states wasn't meant to imply that one US state is as similar to another as visiting different countries in Europe. My point was that from a distance point of view, it's almost unavoidable in Europe to "travel to other countries".  But it does'nt make Europeans more worldly. It makes them more insular about Europe.  If Americans are guilty of thinking America is the world (and they are guilty of this) it's no less true to say that Europeans think Europe is the world. The difference is that Europeans are arrogant enough to actually count visiting each other within Europe as a measure of said worldliness.

Germany is not the world's largest exporter.  More to the point, Germany gets to count sales to France and UK and Poland and Italy as "exports" which really distorts the reality. Again I'll get to the main point: How much stuff is Europe exporting outside of Europe? 

Your response represents a typical European attitude on the matter -- Europe is a single entity for the purposes of your argument -- when you count GDP. But when it suits you, you'll switch to individual countries (like Germany's large amount of "exports").

Yes, Britain is a bit behind the rest of the continent (see France)

Really ?
Where do you think hijab is forbidden in public schools and administrations ? Not in Britain, but in France. BTW, is it allowed for US government workers to wear hijab on jobs ? In France, it's not.

Were the danish cartoons published in a national newspaper in US or UK ? In France, they were, and at most two weeks after the beginning of the polemic, not months after.

You're sure we're so appeasing the evil muslims ?
Further reading :
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2764

The population problem is a real one. But you know, when I read about Atzlan, and lots of rightwing blogs and sites on this subject, it seems no one is really safe from this kind of problem..

A question of how much money to transfer from one person to another isn't diversity IMO.

Well, then it's not diversity for you. Nonetheless there are a lot of different opinions from the far left to the far right - and the political parties that represent them.

What is the European rationale for thinking that individual Americans only think of themselves?

I called it a prejudice myself, why should I defend it?

My statement about visiting different states wasn't meant to imply that one US state is as similar to another as visiting different countries in Europe. My point was that from a distance point of view, it's almost unavoidable in Europe to "travel to other countries".

In my opinion, travelling isn't about "counting miles" (like you indicated in caps further above), the more important aspect is how much cultural diversity you'll get to see. And yes, I think that Europe has more cultural diversity to offer than the US. Comparing apples and oranges perhaps, but I think that e.g. going from Chicago to Miami can't be compared to going from Narvik to Athens.

Your response represents a typical European attitude on the matter -- Europe is a single entity for the purposes of your argument -- when you count GDP. But when it suits you, you'll switch to individual countries (like Germany's large amount of "exports").

I switched because I didn't have the figures for the EU ready, maybe I should have made that clearer. Thanks for putting me in the box with all "typical Europeans" for a few statements though.

My point wasn't to prove how great the EU or Germany is anyway. I just wanted to point out that your statement

Does Europe still make anything?

was nothing more than polemics in my opinion.

A few issues with strong opinions on the different sides in the EU: Immigration, future of the EU in general (further integration?, Turkey? etc.), social security (with demographics playing a huge role), foreign policy (UK & friends vs. "Old Europe" to make it short), abortion (hmm, might sound familiar?) and - last but not least - "how much money to transfer from one person to another" (isn't that what many things are about in the end?).

I'm trying to think of a product, good, or service that I own that is European in manufacture or thought.

Nokia phones! That's it. Yup. Can't think of anything else.

Ooh, chocolates!

Bratwurst? Well, most of it's made in the US these days, even if it is German in invention . . .

Hmm . . . drawing blanks.

No it isn't.

We will disagree then.  Since the Jews did not rain down destruction on Nazi Germany IN any form, prior to their persecution.  We are not talking about 1 or 2 here (or 19 or 20).  We have a fact.  the WTC.  Muslims did it (granted .00000000000001% of them), but no similar action by Jews to warrant the persecution.

I stand by my statement.

European exports are higher. This is a fact.

I'm trying to think of a product, good, or service that I own that is European in manufacture or thought.

Cars? Most small passenger vehicles sold in Australia are designed and/or engineered in Europe. It might be the same in the US too.

According to Wikipedia, the EU's GDP was higher than the US' in 2005. (Granted - EU population is higher as well, thus GDP per capita is lower.) Germany alone is the largest exporter of goods in the world. Sounds like there are interesting products after all.

The Funny thing about that is, it is subjective.  I had a debate with a co-worker back in 03.  I also argued the EU was bigger.  Yet I could and did find sources that said both ways (smaller and bigger). Since Wikipedia is editable by anyone, it cannot be used as an authoratative source.  Although I do beleive that in the short term the EU does have the potential to be bigger as we are not annexing Canada and mexico to grow our economy.

A question of how much money to transfer from one person to another isn't diversity IMO. Well, then it's not diversity for you. Nonetheless there are a lot of different opinions from the far left to the far right - and the political parties that represent them.

Ok. So what % of Europeans are voting for left-of-center parties vs. right-of-center parties?  My impression is that the vast majority of Europeans end up supporting far left vs. middle left parties with center and right parties getting tiny minorities?

For example: Germany.

You have the Christian Democratic Union. This is closest to the American democratic party (left of center). (Christian Social Union handles Bavaria).

There's also the Social Democratic party. They are essentially the equivalant of the socialist party. Far left.

Then there's the Free Democratic party. Gets about 10% of the vote. It's far-left on many social issues. The only thing right-wing about them is they tend to be the most hawkish. But all things are relative here. On fiscal policy they're center.  Overall, they're kind of a centrist part (at best).

Then there's the Green party which is far left.

And the party of Democratic socialism.  Heck, from an outsider's point of view, there's not even a lot of diversity in the names of these parties.

My point being, you say how laughable it is for me to say that there isn't a lot of diversity in political thought in Europe. But then you don't explain how I'm wrong. I'm totally willing to be convinced otherwise. I travel to Europe but I'm not expert on European life.

In the United States the gulf between the Democrats and Republicans is significant. And there are significant pullings to the left and right on each. And, as everyone not in a cave knows, it's a 50/50 country.

There are significant amounts of debate with each side having significant support for their view on all kinds of issues in the USA:

• Gun control
• Death penalty
• Abortion
• Welfare
• Social services
• Income re-distribution
• Income inequitiy
• Foreign policy

In European countries, I see consensus. Guns are bad. Death penalty is bad. Abortion on demand. Cradle to Grave welfare. Lots of social services. income inequitiy is bad. Peace through diplomacy.

That's not to say that there aren't those who disagree in Europe. But that's irrelevant. If 80% of the people feel basically the same, that's not very diverse.  And on many of these issues, European support one way or the other on htese issue is 90% or greater.

I switched because I didn't have the figures for the EU ready, maybe I should have made that clearer. Thanks for putting me in the box with all "typical Europeans" for a few statements though. My point wasn't to prove how great the EU or Germany is anyway. I just wanted to point out that your statement

Sorry. Prejudice on my part. I get into these kinds of debates with Europeans so often it's hard not to assume the next one is going to be the same thing.

What I usually end up dealing with in debates are people cherry picking statistics between europe and individual countries based on what helps their argument.

As for asking what Europe makes, I was serious. What things does Europe make and export? You said its GDP is bigger than the US's. And it is indeed. So, what is Europe making these days that people use? I'm sure there's a long list of incidentals (France and Germany have some large drug companies for instance). But my point is that Europe's impact on the world seems to be decreasing by the year.

Let me give you an example that hits closer to home:

In the last GUI Championships, there were 0 finalists from Europe. 0. USA, China, Russia, heck Brazil and elsewhere were represented. But not one European.  Europeans make up 38% of the users of the stuff created by these people but produced 0% of the content.  

From the outside, Europe just comes across as the ultimate consumer. Living off of past efforts and past industriousness and just counting down the clock.

You have the Christian Democratic Union. This is closest to the American democratic party (left of center).

Only on some issues. E.g. the majority of CDU opposes abortion and would probably have made much different politics than Schroeder (SPD) did regarding the war in Iraq. They do have serious support from big business and usually are in power where the economy is strong in Germany.

There's also the Social Democratic party. They are essentially the equivalant of the socialist party. Far left.

SPD is left of CDU, that's right. They have a significant left wing (which lost a lot of influence in the last 5 years), but they're not anti-business in general.

Then there's the Free Democratic party. Gets about 10% of the vote. It's far-left on many social issues. The only thing right-wing about them is they tend to be the most hawkish. But all things are relative here. On fiscal policy they're center. Overall, they're kind of a centrist part (at best).

Right about the social issues, but on the other hand they're 100% pro free market and business. Most Entrepreneurs vote for them (or the CDU) usually.

Then there's the Green party which is far left.

Their name is their program: Environment and peace.

I think it's very difficult to compare the political systems in most European countries with the one in the US. We simply have different traditions, with the most important being the role of the government (re-distribution etc.). What may seem "all left" for you isn't for us. And I think that elections with more than two (promising) parties to vote about give us the possibility to show the disagreements better.

I know that there are hot topics in the US like the list you presented. But are most of them really that close in the surveys (<10% difference)? Wouldn't it be safe to say that the average US american thinks that "Guns are good. Death penalty is good. The UN sucks. Peace through force. USA above all."? (As you said, not 100%, but a majority of let's say 55%/60%+)

In the last GUI Championships, there were 0 finalists from Europe.

I guess this example was too specific. E.g. Germany has the fourth largest software corporation, SAP (granted, with three US corps at the top).

What things does Europe make and export?

I'll stick to Germany because that's where I know things better: Engineering (Siemens, MAN and many of smaller size), chemical industry (BASF), pharmaceutics (Bayer), cars (Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche), telecommunication (isn't T-Mobile active in the US by now?), finance (Deutsche Bank), logistics (Deutsche Post through DHL). The CIA World Factbook states "among the world's largest and most technologically advanced producers of iron, steel, coal, cement, chemicals, machinery, vehicles, machine tools, electronics, food and beverages, shipbuilding, textiles".

Regarding exports and competitiveness: How about the significant trade deficit of the US? Can't you produce what you need on your own? Are the US doomed? (Just joking of course.)

To me, this debate (if you can call it that) seems pointless. Just a bunch of stubborn Americans arguing with a bunch of stubborn Europeans.

Americans are willing to believe the most far out facts about Europe e.g. Europe is being taken over by Muslims, Europe has no religion etc. Most of the facts are spread by scared right wing bloggers, they fly around, they are added to and before you know it they become 'fact'.

Europeans are willing to believe the stereotypes about Americans, e.g. they are all religious extremists (End Timers etc) or they want to enslave the world etc.

Having lived in several EU countries and a few US states I can say that bickering between Europe and America is pitiful because it is based on fear and loathing not real facts.

As for asking what Europe makes, I was serious. What things does Europe make and export? You said its GDP is bigger than the US's. And it is indeed. So, what is Europe making these days that people use? I'm sure there's a long list of incidentals (France and Germany have some large drug companies for instance). But my point is that Europe's impact on the world seems to be decreasing by the year. Let me give you an example that hits closer to home: In the last GUI Championships, there were 0 finalists from Europe. 0. USA, China, Russia, heck Brazil and elsewhere were represented. But not one European. Europeans make up 38% of the users of the stuff created by these people but produced 0% of the content. From the outside, Europe just comes across as the ultimate consumer. Living off of past efforts and past industriousness and just counting down the clock

Uh Brad...you may want to check this against the #40 reply. Last I knew Germany was "part" of Europe. And as far as I can tell everything he wrote about German exports is spot on.

I'll stick to Germany because that's where I know things better: Engineering (Siemens, MAN and many of smaller size), chemical industry (BASF), pharmaceutics (Bayer), cars (Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche), telecommunication (isn't T-Mobile active in the US by now?), finance (Deutsche Bank), logistics (Deutsche Post through DHL). The CIA World Factbook states "among the world's largest and most technologically advanced producers of iron, steel, coal, cement, chemicals, machinery, vehicles, machine tools, electronics, food and beverages, shipbuilding, textiles".

I know that there are hot topics in the US like the list you presented. But are most of them really that close in the surveys (<10% difference)? Wouldn't it be safe to say that the average US american thinks that "Guns are good. Death penalty is good. The UN sucks. Peace through force. USA above all."? (As you said, not 100%, but a majority of let's say 55%/60%+)

Yes, it's really very close.  Nearly a majority think guns are a good thing and Nearly a majority would like to see a lot more gun control.  A majority of Americans think the death penalty is good but a large minority think it's bad. A majority of Americans like the UN overall but a large minority think it sucks. It's pretty even on whether we're better off with Peace through strength (not force) vs. peace through diplomacy.

By contrast, Europeans (usually proudly) claim there is a "consensus" on these issues. There isn't any such consensus on these issues here.

I guess this example was too specific. E.g. Germany has the fourth largest software corporation, SAP (granted, with three US corps at the top).

It's more than that though.  You pointed out that Europe, as a whole, has a larger GDP. My response to that is that thad GDP is mostly about providing services -- to each other and that they don't actually make stuff that really goes outside its borders.

You say SAP is the 4th largest software company.  Sure. But 13 of the top 15 are American. Why is that?

Europe only has 1 of the top 5 largest auto companies and shares another with the US (Daimler Chrysler). Why is that?

I could walk through every major industry that involves producing things that the modern world universally uses and you would be hard pressed to find an industry that Europe leads in. Why is that?

I genuinely am interested in knowing. It's like Europe, having gotten tired of murdering each other enmasse has taken a long collective nap and is now just waiting around to die out entirely.

I'll stick to Germany because that's where I know things better: Engineering (Siemens, MAN and many of smaller size), chemical industry (BASF), pharmaceutics (Bayer), cars (Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche), telecommunication (isn't T-Mobile active in the US by now?), finance (Deutsche Bank), logistics (Deutsche Post through DHL). The CIA World Factbook states "among the world's largest and most technologically advanced producers of iron, steel, coal, cement, chemicals, machinery, vehicles, machine tools, electronics, food and beverages, shipbuilding, textiles".

(with regard to what is being exported)

Okay. That is good. I did mention luxury cars but okay: Bayer - 13th largest drug company despite having a century+ head start. Germany does great luxury cars. But that's a very niche market. Siemens is indeed impressive. Same with BASF.  And same for T-mobile. 

But it's still not a very impressive list overall. Do you disagree? That is, Germany is the most successful continental European country. You'd think it would be relatively easy to pump out dozens of companies that make things that are ubiquitous.

If you were to add in say France and Italy and Spain, do you think the list would scale up impressively?

Let me put it another way. If an alien anthropogist were studying different cultures, what do you think they'd make of the continent of Europe? A group of nation states that had a massive lead over the rest of the world 200 years ago but today leads in virtually no major industry.  Even BASF, which is impressive, isn't the leading chemical company anymore. When it started, how many chemical companies were there? The US was fighting a civil war.

In industry after industry, Europe either had a head start because the indusries already existed or they never even got really into the game. The newer the industry, the worse Europe seems to do.

I'm not trying to bash Europe. I am trying to understand. It's a continent that once absolutely dominated the world that today can't be bothered to produce most of the things they use and now can't be bothered to even reproduce.

 

Americans are willing to believe the most far out facts about Europe e.g. Europe is being taken over by Muslims, Europe has no religion etc. Most of the facts are spread by scared right wing bloggers, they fly around, they are added to and before you know it they become 'fact'.

Are you denying they're facts or are you objecting that the facts are being spread around?

And why are these facts scarey?

Europe IS slowly being taken over by Muslims. That's a statistical fact. Europeans are overwhelmingly secular now. Why would that scare me? I'm an atheist.

If you don't like these facts or if you disagree with them, then set the record straight. Don't think that the population of native Europeans is declining? You don't think the Islamic populations are the fastest growing segments in western Europe? You don't think Europeans are secular and becoming increasingly secular?

Tell me which "fact" you don't agree with.

Uh Brad...you may want to check this against the #40 reply. Last I knew Germany was "part" of Europe. And as far as I can tell everything he wrote about German exports is spot on.

Uh John...where did I imply otherwise?

I asked him for a list of things that is being exported. He gave a list of things from Germany (in #38 -- I deleted 2 duplicate posts). I'm fine with that. I responded in #41.  Why are you suggesting that I'm disregarding his list when I hadn't even responded to it when you responded?

I am very interested in this subject and have been watching Europe and Israel very carefully over many years.

I see it all coming together. There is a vortex over Jerusalem and it is rapidly growing in intensity as we move forward to what I believe is the last chapter of this age.

What we are seeing, like a plug being pulled from the sink, is how all the nations are getting sucked toward the center like water rushing down the drain. What we are seeing right before our eyes is this circular motion drawing evil and wicked men and nations toward Israel.

There were four empires named in the prophetic book of Daniel..... Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. They each in turn ruled and plundered Israel before they left the scene. During the last 50 years,....not by accident.....these nations have re-emerged as Iraq (ancient Bablon), Iran (ancient Persia), Syria (ancient Greece) and the EU (ancient Rome). The first three we know quite well are mortal enemies of Israel. All have publicly declared their intention to destroy Israel. The EU (revived Roman Empire) has consistently opposed Israel in the UN and supported the Palestianians. Right now it's placing troops in Southern Lebanon on the border with Israel. This gives the EU a strategic foothold to fulfill her part in end time events.

Out of this revived Roman Empire, the Antichrist will emerge and make Jerusalem his headquarters. That's why for centuries many have indicated the Pope would fulfil this role because they could see from Revelation and Daniel that ithe antichrist would emerge from this Roman Empire (Now the EU).

Many are watching a man named Javier Solona out of Spain. I'd keep an eye on him if I were you. Do your research. If you know anything of biblical prophecy...this man will make your hair turn white.

youtube.com/watch?v=dROAOxkMTtk

"Europeans travel to other European countries which is akin to Americans traveling to other states."

.

"How many products and goods and services can really say they're European?"

The same could be said of the United States. That is if you've shopped at Walmart lately, and bothered to look at a label with the prefix MADE IN ...

"Since the Jews did not rain down destruction on Nazi Germany IN any form, prior to their persecution."

Neither did "the Muslims" do anything to us. It's interesting how we tend to go out of our way to think in terms of individuals when we talk about the King David Hotel bombing, or the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin. Granted Jews don't often commit violence in the name of religion, but they do, just as Christians and others do.

I don't see people very often saying "the jews assassinate" or "the jews bomb hotels" without someone jumping on them with both feet. Yet, we have to fear "the Muslims"? Come on. Every other nation in Europe is on a bender trying to outlaw the veil in public or trying to hold back their neo-nazi movements from all out war on Muslim immigrants. You really think the average Muslim is something to worry about?

What trends are Europe at the forefront of?

Fashion, ecological maintenance of the planet, safe and effective nuclear energy providing the bulk of their energy resources, light rail.

Just off the top of my head. Of course none of these are important to the world.

"Nation states or collections of nation states influence the world either through cultural power, economic power, or mlitary power. Does Europe really have any of these things anymore? I'll grant it has cultural power in the form of inertia and in the form that the United States exerts cultural power that was based on European principles (that Europe has largely long since abandoned)."

Would you not say that most of the time when America is successful in the world the aims and goals of American policy are economic stability in focus, and promoting peace in the world? I'd have to say that we do both of those things on a much more ideological scale then Europe. Maybe most Europeans are content to let the rest of the world live how they want to live.

Could you define what European cultural principals that they have long since abandoned? I'm curious as to what you mean there.

"Europeans have a lot of opinions. I provided evidence to support my opinion (or at least a rationale). What is the European rationale for thinking that individual Americans only think of themselves? Americans individually give far more time to charity, volunteer far more time to ohters. Heck, they give a lot more blood than Europeans."

I think the European concept isn't that Americans aren't generous, but they think that we aren't as generous to the the rest of the world as we are neighborly to each other as Americans. Also I think that the reality between being European and American is different, since European governments deal daily with the foreign governments, and must cooperate, that this is reported in the media much more often, rather then in the United States, where we can choose between working with another nation or going alone, since we have the power to do so in many cases.

"Like Cacto mentions, the question isn't whether Europe is dying. The question is whether Europe's native culture is strong enough to turn the Islamic immigrants into cultural Europeans fast enough to stave off the death of Europe as we know it. And what I think will happen is that in 100 years from now Europea will be largely Islamic instead of Secular."

Yeah? Demographics are only accurate the moment they were collected, and considering that things change in a dynamic setting, of which the world is, that is to be expected. Why is the culture of Europe being changed necessarily a bad thing? Has our culture in the United States not benefited consistently from growing and melding? Hasn't the diversity increased and with increased diversity made it a more enriched place to be?

"Germany is not the world's largest exporter. More to the point, Germany gets to count sales to France and UK and Poland and Italy as "exports" which really distorts the reality. Again I'll get to the main point: How much stuff is Europe exporting outside of Europe?

Your response represents a typical European attitude on the matter -- Europe is a single entity for the purposes of your argument -- when you count GDP"

So how about some stats on the exports from the EU as a whole to the outside of Europe community? I'm sure you have those somewhere Brad no?

"Having lived in several EU countries and a few US states I can say that bickering between Europe and America is pitiful because it is based on fear and loathing not real facts."

Seems to be a common theme among many different discussions on facts and perceived facts.

One thing about Germany and Siemens in specifics, we do a fair bit of work that is outsourced from Siemens to America and then sent back to Siemens, and sold back to American hospitals.

That work under the wholesale cost, isn't counted in an export figure nor should it be, the materials are taxed of course as is the labor, but the product as sold final cost, retail, thats where the export cost is. As you probably know, a lot of manufacturing jobs, meaning a lot of manufacturing work, has gone to Mexico, Canada, as well as Europe. Why Europe? Because European manufacturing standards, ISO and such, generally set the bar along with Japan, in the world.

American companies make lots of things, as do Europeans, but a lot of the middle class income type jobs, have gone to Europe because they can be performed there, for less, beyond that from there they are again moved to China, which has the greatest quantity of available cheap labor, once standards rise in China, which is inevitable, a lot of the dynamics of that 'workload' shift will be shifted back up the chain of moving jobs, so America will bleed them off slower, or even create them, as well as places like Germany.

Germany is also a very highly skilled workforce in the scientific communities, as has been true for a long time. Certainly per capita investment in science education, and patents, and skills, and nobel prizes and such belong to Germany. Europe as a whole, offers plenty of necessary goods to the world market. To suggest irrelevance, is pretty meek.

"To me, this debate (if you can call it that) seems pointless. Just a bunch of stubborn Americans arguing with a bunch of stubborn Europeans."

Agree, but nobody would have it any other way, except the Muslims who are out to get us all right? !

"If an alien anthropogist were studying different cultures, what do you think they'd make of the continent of Europe? A group of nation states that had a massive lead over the rest of the world 200 years ago but today leads in virtually no major industry."

They'd conclude that Europeans are very advanced considering they've survived 2 world wars which were largely fought right in the middle of the civilian population each time. Since such time they've led the world in clean energy, and keeping incomes level so as to not provide basis for social injustices, yet still provide incentive for innovation that helps everybody, while also leading the world in promoting peace and working non violently to compromise keep their people safe.

If it was an Alien Anthropologist from the "galactic America", he'd say Europeans are stupid, and wimps, and don't drive big enough cars, so they must have no redeeming values.

"Europe IS slowly being taken over by Muslims."

I love this, how many politicians in Europe are Muslim, I'll give you the whole EU. What's the rate of growth?

"I see it all coming together. There is a vortex over Jerusalem and it is rapidly growing in intensity as we move forward to what I believe is the last chapter of this age. "

Yup, and pretty soon the Earth is going to suck so bad, into itself that we'll be inside out.

"What we are seeing, like a plug being pulled from the sink, is how all the nations are getting sucked toward the center like water rushing down the drain. What we are seeing right before our eyes is this circular motion drawing evil and wicked men and nations toward Israel."

Yeah close enough.

"Many are watching a man named Javier Solona out of Spain. I'd keep an eye on him if I were you. Do your research. If you know anything of biblical prophecy...this man will make your hair turn white."

You do that for us KFC.

Back to European and American interdependence, the world economy is completely connected, which is why when stocks are up here they are up over there, when the economy is spinning well in one part of the world it is likely spinning well in another. The economy is a big circle of spend, make, sell, buy ; buy = spend. There isn't anything that is going to stop that, not Islam, not the end of the world, unless you truly believe anything man can do, or supernatural I guess, short of nuclear weapons employment can stop anything dynamic on the Earth. In other words, you have about as much chance stopping this economic wheel, as you do of stopping electrons from orbiting atoms.

The fact that oil and water dont mix, and baking soda and vinegar do, doesn't ever change. Neither do the non-dynamic forces that govern this existence. Things that are moving and changing will continue to do so. Things that never move won't.

"Will Europe be forced to don the hijab and accept their status as Dhimmi under the approaching New Caliphate? Is it possible that this could force a return to European fascism and nationalism as a counter?"

Only if you give into irrational fears, slip into a deep and dreary world, in a small 6x10 cell and nobody gives you your medication at the asylum while you are bound in your straight jacket of hypocrisy and shame.

RFID

Yeah we'll never need that anywhere in the world, pioneered in the great land of Europe.